Steveweiser
Dalek
Mickie Mickie You're So Fine... Hey Mickie!
THE GRAPS
Posts: 50,249
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Post by Steveweiser on Jan 10, 2010 7:29:41 GMT -5
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Post by boiledewokthe3rd on Jan 10, 2010 7:52:38 GMT -5
"WWE spokesman Robert Zimmerman" Bob Dylan works for the 'E? Theeyweren't workiiingforuss whentheey died.
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Post by mauled on Jan 10, 2010 8:20:04 GMT -5
Doing all they can sorry but thats not good enough. Is there any other sport where the athletes drop like flies awnser NO. Now I cant blame this guy he is a company lackey just toeing the line but that aside I can blame Vince as he is the boss.
Fact is Vince has pretty much a total monopaly on wrestling and its well with in his power to cut down on work shedules and point out that he does not need wrestlers to juice themselves up to get ahead in his company which is what its all about after all.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,816
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jan 10, 2010 9:00:47 GMT -5
*gets ready for 10 pages of "No, they really arent" "shut up, they are too" arguments*
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Post by Azrael from Outerspace on Jan 10, 2010 9:03:28 GMT -5
Doing all they can sorry but thats not good enough. Is there any other sport where the athletes drop like flies awnser NO. Now I cant blame this guy he is a company lackey just toeing the line but that aside I can blame Vince as he is the boss. Fact is Vince has pretty much a total monopaly on wrestling and its well with in his power to cut down on work shedules and point out that he does not need wrestlers to juice themselves up to get ahead in his company which is what its all about after all. What other wrestling companies have a drug testing policy that is even close to the E's. I'm not saying Vince is blameless because he isn't but if he is so is every other wrestling company on the planet.
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randomranter
Dennis Stamp
When you grow up....... YOU'RE GONNA BE WROOOOOONG!!!!
Posts: 4,804
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Post by randomranter on Jan 10, 2010 9:14:05 GMT -5
*gets ready for 10 pages of "No, they really arent" "shut up, they are too" arguments* Just 10? Low expectations, eh?
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Post by Pounder on Jan 10, 2010 11:06:09 GMT -5
Wrestlers are by and large a bunch of idiots. I mean I know there are exceptions but really, most are complete morons. Really, get with the program here, bunch of people who are educated up until the age of 15, drop out of high school and spend the rest of their lives hitting each other trying to get noticed by volunteering to hit each other over the head with a steel chair.
Really, are we that shocked that this is a group of people heavily into drink, drugs and eventually end up in an early grave?
The problem isn't the industry, it's who the industry attracts. Yes there ARE people who are smart in the wrestling business, there are also politicians who don't bulls** and actresses who don't have botox but we're talking a tiny minority here.
Wrestlers have no moral boundaries. They fraternise with each other, they travel with each other, they work with each other. It's boys and their toys. They get a few bucks, they blow it on drink. They earn a few more bucks, they blow it on girls. They earn serious bucks, they blow it on drugs.
What's needed isn't drug testing.
What's needed is educational standards. Do not employ someone unless they at LEAST have a high school diploma. Make it mandatory for all employees under 30 to attend college, part time. It isn't drugs that are killing these people it's lack of education.
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Post by mauled on Jan 10, 2010 11:16:33 GMT -5
Doing all they can sorry but thats not good enough. Is there any other sport where the athletes drop like flies awnser NO. Now I cant blame this guy he is a company lackey just toeing the line but that aside I can blame Vince as he is the boss. Fact is Vince has pretty much a total monopaly on wrestling and its well with in his power to cut down on work shedules and point out that he does not need wrestlers to juice themselves up to get ahead in his company which is what its all about after all. What other wrestling companies have a drug testing policy that is even close to the E's. I'm not saying Vince is blameless because he isn't but if he is so is every other wrestling company on the planet. Your right but no other wrestling company is as huge and succesful with literally people all over the world wanting to join. Lets face it Vince loves the body builder physique so wreslters jucie themselves up to the nines to get it. They are also on the road almost all the time and desperate not to lose a paycheck so come back to early from injuries which makes a bad situation worse. Fact is yes the wrestlers are adults who make these bad choices but Vince has the power and success to make changes and he doesnt
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Post by moonlight on Jan 10, 2010 11:41:16 GMT -5
I hate to say this but, I'll say it anyway: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it. I don't believe all wrestlers are dope fiends, just the ones that are dopes to begin with. I wrestled for almost 5 years in the early 1970s, and I didn't use dope or steroids.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2010 11:46:42 GMT -5
Serious reply: I don't think it's WWE's fault. The people choose to do drugs themselves, and while they have not always had systems in place WWE has still generally looked down on it.
Joke reply: Such as booking the anti-drug guy as a horrible heel!
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Post by Dr. Bunsen Honeydew on Jan 10, 2010 11:49:18 GMT -5
Doing all they can sorry but thats not good enough. Is there any other sport where the athletes drop like flies awnser NO. Now I cant blame this guy he is a company lackey just toeing the line but that aside I can blame Vince as he is the boss. Fact is Vince has pretty much a total monopaly on wrestling and its well with in his power to cut down on work shedules and point out that he does not need wrestlers to juice themselves up to get ahead in his company which is what its all about after all. So we'll forget the fact that many of the issues of the wretlers who died were there BEFORE ever being employed by WWE to begin with?
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Johnny Danger (Godz)
Wade Wilson
loves him some cavity searches
Lord Xeen's going to kill you.
Posts: 27,736
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Post by Johnny Danger (Godz) on Jan 10, 2010 12:25:20 GMT -5
This all comes down to how much babysitting grown men require.
And, though I do believe WWE needs to do FAR more in their anti-drug efforts, I'd like to point out that a lot of the big names who've died from drug issues in the past few years, Mr. Perfect, Road Warrior Hawk (Though I read he was clean when he died), Test, Umaga, etc, were no longer employed by WWE at the time.
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Post by Brian Suntan on Jan 10, 2010 13:07:11 GMT -5
I think they've taken great strides to improve this in recent years, so fair play to them for that. Certainly the 'we're doing all we can' line sounds a lot less hollow than it would've done a decade ago.
IMO of course TNA should follow suit, but they won't. Really when you're trying to establish yourself, ratings > health + safety. I'm sure Vince would do the same. Nevertheless, it'd be nice for them to have a proper wellness in place, rather than "Look, no drug policy!" seemingly being their USP to potential employees.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Jan 10, 2010 13:49:49 GMT -5
I find this to be a bit unfair. Why should Vince McMahon and WWE have to hand-hold a bunch of grown men through life just to make sure they don't wind up dead in a hotel room? The fact that they even test semi-regularly and pay for rehab is more that most other businesses do. The wrestling industry is just an easy target because the mainstream look down their noses at it.
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wwerules60
El Dandy
"Bring what? a vomit bag? a fig newton?"
Posts: 8,999
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Post by wwerules60 on Jan 10, 2010 15:16:30 GMT -5
Wrestlers are by and large a bunch of idiots. I mean I know there are exceptions but really, most are complete morons. Really, get with the program here, bunch of people who are educated up until the age of 15, drop out of high school and spend the rest of their lives hitting each other trying to get noticed by volunteering to hit each other over the head with a steel chair. Really, are we that shocked that this is a group of people heavily into drink, drugs and eventually end up in an early grave? The problem isn't the industry, it's who the industry attracts. Yes there ARE people who are smart in the wrestling business, there are also politicians who don't bulls** and actresses who don't have botox but we're talking a tiny minority here. Wrestlers have no moral boundaries. They fraternise with each other, they travel with each other, they work with each other. It's boys and their toys. They get a few bucks, they blow it on drink. They earn a few more bucks, they blow it on girls. They earn serious bucks, they blow it on drugs. What's needed isn't drug testing. What's needed is educational standards. Do not employ someone unless they at LEAST have a high school diploma. Make it mandatory for all employees under 30 to attend college, part time. It isn't drugs that are killing these people it's lack of education. There are many many people who have graduated high school and are attending college but still do lots of drugs. I think the real problem is the never ending road schedule, no time to heal from getting slammed around every night which then leads to painkiller abuse and the need to stay in shape while being on the road that leads to steroid abuse. The only thing I always wonder is why the wrestling industry seems to be the only one attacked with this. Why does no one ever inquire into all the early deaths in the music industry?
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Post by triplealbert on Jan 10, 2010 15:25:51 GMT -5
Wrestlers are by and large a bunch of idiots. I mean I know there are exceptions but really, most are complete morons. Really, get with the program here, bunch of people who are educated up until the age of 15, drop out of high school and spend the rest of their lives hitting each other trying to get noticed by volunteering to hit each other over the head with a steel chair. Really, are we that shocked that this is a group of people heavily into drink, drugs and eventually end up in an early grave? The problem isn't the industry, it's who the industry attracts. Yes there ARE people who are smart in the wrestling business, there are also politicians who don't bulls** and actresses who don't have botox but we're talking a tiny minority here. Wrestlers have no moral boundaries. They fraternise with each other, they travel with each other, they work with each other. It's boys and their toys. They get a few bucks, they blow it on drink. They earn a few more bucks, they blow it on girls. They earn serious bucks, they blow it on drugs. What's needed isn't drug testing. What's needed is educational standards. Do not employ someone unless they at LEAST have a high school diploma. Make it mandatory for all employees under 30 to attend college, part time. It isn't drugs that are killing these people it's lack of education. Ballsy post.
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Post by dh03grad on Jan 10, 2010 15:31:57 GMT -5
Wrestlers are by and large a bunch of idiots. I mean I know there are exceptions but really, most are complete morons. Really, get with the program here, bunch of people who are educated up until the age of 15, drop out of high school and spend the rest of their lives hitting each other trying to get noticed by volunteering to hit each other over the head with a steel chair. Really, are we that shocked that this is a group of people heavily into drink, drugs and eventually end up in an early grave? The problem isn't the industry, it's who the industry attracts. Yes there ARE people who are smart in the wrestling business, there are also politicians who don't bulls** and actresses who don't have botox but we're talking a tiny minority here. Wrestlers have no moral boundaries. They fraternise with each other, they travel with each other, they work with each other. It's boys and their toys. They get a few bucks, they blow it on drink. They earn a few more bucks, they blow it on girls. They earn serious bucks, they blow it on drugs. What's needed isn't drug testing. What's needed is educational standards. Do not employ someone unless they at LEAST have a high school diploma. Make it mandatory for all employees under 30 to attend college, part time. It isn't drugs that are killing these people it's lack of education. There are many many people who have graduated high school and are attending college but still do lots of drugs. I think the real problem is the never ending road schedule, no time to heal from getting slammed around every night which then leads to painkiller abuse and the need to stay in shape while being on the road that leads to steroid abuse. The only thing I always wonder is why the wrestling industry seems to be the only one attacked with this. Why does no one ever inquire into all the early deaths in the music industry? Artists arent forced to go on perpetual year long world tours to keep their record deals. If WWE was doing "all it can", it would eliminate therapeutic use exemptions.
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Post by Pounder on Jan 10, 2010 15:41:46 GMT -5
Wrestlers are by and large a bunch of idiots. I mean I know there are exceptions but really, most are complete morons. Really, get with the program here, bunch of people who are educated up until the age of 15, drop out of high school and spend the rest of their lives hitting each other trying to get noticed by volunteering to hit each other over the head with a steel chair. Really, are we that shocked that this is a group of people heavily into drink, drugs and eventually end up in an early grave? The problem isn't the industry, it's who the industry attracts. Yes there ARE people who are smart in the wrestling business, there are also politicians who don't bulls** and actresses who don't have botox but we're talking a tiny minority here. Wrestlers have no moral boundaries. They fraternise with each other, they travel with each other, they work with each other. It's boys and their toys. They get a few bucks, they blow it on drink. They earn a few more bucks, they blow it on girls. They earn serious bucks, they blow it on drugs. What's needed isn't drug testing. What's needed is educational standards. Do not employ someone unless they at LEAST have a high school diploma. Make it mandatory for all employees under 30 to attend college, part time. It isn't drugs that are killing these people it's lack of education. There are many many people who have graduated high school and are attending college but still do lots of drugs. I think the real problem is the never ending road schedule, no time to heal from getting slammed around every night which then leads to painkiller abuse and the need to stay in shape while being on the road that leads to steroid abuse. The only thing I always wonder is why the wrestling industry seems to be the only one attacked with this. Why does no one ever inquire into all the early deaths in the music industry? People do and often. Are you seriously trying to suggest that drugs, addiction and death in music aren't covered by the press? From what I read it makes 7/10 of showbiz stories in most print media. Frankly I don't think these wrestlers are stable human beings. A life of a huge pay cheques, no responsibility and nothing better to spend it on and without the brain power to know better, culminate in early deaths among wrestlers. Whilst some of us may see them as heroes, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that most are incredibly flawed human beings
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Post by Red Impact on Jan 10, 2010 15:55:46 GMT -5
Doing all they can sorry but thats not good enough. Is there any other sport where the athletes drop like flies awnser NO. Now I cant blame this guy he is a company lackey just toeing the line but that aside I can blame Vince as he is the boss. Fact is Vince has pretty much a total monopaly on wrestling and its well with in his power to cut down on work shedules and point out that he does not need wrestlers to juice themselves up to get ahead in his company which is what its all about after all. sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2313476The main problem unique to wrestlers is that the successful ones are just plain active for a lot longer than most successful professional athletes. A lot of physical sports leave people with a lifetime of pain. But what sport do most successful players participate professionally for 20 years that is anywhere near as physical as wrestling? And on a semantic point, are they supposed to do more than they are able to do? I could see arguing that they aren't doing everything they could do (like exemptions for prescription steroids), but there's just a lot of things they can't control, like whether grown men go out and get plastered after a show. And that's not unique to wrestling. A lot of people just don't know what to do with money and take part in a lot of self destructive activities. Musicians, athletes, trust fund babies, whatever you want. Finally, he doesn't have a monopoly on the business. Anyone can enter the business, he doesn't control their ability to. He's just the biggest and most successful face of it, but people have worked their entire careers in the business without ever having worked for him. Could he do a lot more than he does? Sure. But the WWE isn't "The wrestling business". People all over the world participate in the business well beyond it and the problems aren't just confined to the WWE. I have serious, serious doubts that everything would change if they changed their policies. They're in a strong position to make their employees better and I don't believe they've done all they can, but I don't think they're going to or capable of changing the business as a whole.
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Post by nerdinitupagain on Jan 10, 2010 16:23:28 GMT -5
To compare WWE to any other sport is ridiculous.
Football players on the minimum make 300k a year (rookies) and vets make 700k, guys typically . These guys are people that their entire lives have been high pressure athletes with the center of attention on them for a lot of their career. Their average pro career is from 20 to 33. They have a players union that has successfully gotten things like pre-season pay, life, dental and medical insurance, severance pay, disability benefits and pension coverage. These are things that pro-wrestlers will never get.
WWE's highest paid guy now is probably Cena making somwhere between 1.0 to 2.0 million (pre-merch), nowhere near the top pay of Eli Manning in the NFL at 15 million. That says a lot, but is still of a ton of money. Now, let's take someone like Chavo. He's probably making 150-250k. A respectable living but after taxes and expenses probably pull 75-100k a year in cash. That's a salary that while extremely respectable, is a salary that you cannot retire on at the age of 35.
Compare that to an NFL scrub.. the average career of an NFL player is 3.5 years. They make a minimum of 300k WITH benefits, pension and insurance. They also have access to the NFLPA health insurance plan after they're done with the NFL. There's a good chance unless they were dumb and blew their money, they walk away from the NFL with a decent amount of money $450k after taxes. Most of them have some amount of college education and can afford now to go back and finish college.
So these guys have to wrestle longer with less money to provide a stable financial structure for their families. Most of them do not have any skills outside of wrestling to get into a middle class office job or management position when they retire, so they get into high pressure, commission based jobs which add to existing heart conditions. While continuing to do one offs in indies for a good pay day here and there.
While the WWE is doing a ton of stuff now to help and you have to commend them on that.. they completely looked the other way for nearly 20 years. There was a company culture of steroid, drug and alcohol abuse that was from many accounts McMahon was a big proponent of until he got in trouble. The wrestlers that are coming up now... the Punks, the Ryders, the Morrisons... they probably will live for a much longer time than guys who started in the 80's and 90's just because they are smarter in these areas.
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