Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 42,388
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Jan 10, 2010 16:29:10 GMT -5
Umaga was released because he refused to enter the drug treatment facility. Vince can't steal him away in the night and commit him against his will.
Does wrestling have a drug problem? Of course, but so to does music, comedy, sports....pretty much any career where you're on the road is littered with drug and alcohol problems.
Do I want to see another dead wrestler? No.
What more can be done?
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Post by Pounder on Jan 10, 2010 16:37:04 GMT -5
Perhaps they're paid too much?
Maybe WWE should deduct travel and accommodation from their salary and organize it themselves.
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AriadosMan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Your friendly neighborhood superhero
Posts: 15,620
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Post by AriadosMan on Jan 10, 2010 16:48:57 GMT -5
Perhaps they're paid too much? Maybe WWE should deduct travel and accommodation from their salary and organize it themselves. Wrestlers are paid far less than top draws in the NFL or NBA. The problem is that WWE doesn't have an off-season. It really needs one to give its employees a break and reduce injury rates. Wanna know the reason Jericho is in better shape than Rey? He took several years off to pursue other interests. If wrestlers had some sort of mandatory time off, their careers would be extended, their drawing potential would not suffer, and the industry would get much less negative publicity.
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Post by nerdinitupagain on Jan 10, 2010 16:59:48 GMT -5
Perhaps they're paid too much? Maybe WWE should deduct travel and accommodation from their salary and organize it themselves. Wrestlers are paid far less than top draws in the NFL or NBA. The problem is that WWE doesn't have an off-season. It really needs one to give its employees a break and reduce injury rates. Wanna know the reason Jericho is in better shape than Rey? He took several years off to pursue other interests. If wrestlers had some sort of mandatory time off, their careers would be extended, their drawing potential would not suffer, and the industry would get much less negative publicity. I've always thought if they did a seasonal touring schedule where they tour for 3 months, but still kept doing TV would be a good way to do this as it would keep programming on the air, but give guys a break from the road every day and only work TV.
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Post by celticjobber on Jan 10, 2010 17:05:13 GMT -5
Its not WWE's fault, Vince McMahon doesn't make anyone take drugs. They're all grown men and make their own decisions. And alot of the dead wrestlers came from WCW and ECW where there was a much bigger drug/party scene than WWE has had since the 1980's. Since Eddie Guerrero's death, there is more testing, so there's alot less steroid and other drug usage in the company.
But the main problem now is mark doctors, who will prescribe HGH to anyone who can pay for it, and its untestable (but legal anyway as long as it was prescribed).
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Post by Big Daddy Bad Booking on Jan 10, 2010 17:08:59 GMT -5
Perhaps they're paid too much? Maybe WWE should deduct travel and accommodation from their salary and organize it themselves. Wrestlers are paid far less than top draws in the NFL or NBA. The problem is that WWE doesn't have an off-season. It really needs one to give its employees a break and reduce injury rates. Wanna know the reason Jericho is in better shape than Rey? He took several years off to pursue other interests. If wrestlers had some sort of mandatory time off, their careers would be extended, their drawing potential would not suffer, and the industry would get much less negative publicity. This I agree with because of its simplicity. Wrestling is "entertainment" sure, but with highly athletic people putting their lives on the line while being paid bread and peas in comparision to other professional athletes, some reorganization should be done. For one thing, I wouldn't mind having perhaps RAW being run every other week and SMACKDOWN being played out every other week, and have house shows on the Friday-Sunday in particular region of the country ideally. Take a man like Shawn Michaels, who lucky in his prime of 96-98 (before WM XIV), didn't have a wife or kids to worry about in terms of finances and insurance. Shawn is at an age now where he doesn't have to go full-out every time he is the ring. But more importantly, he gets to be there for his kids, Cameron and Cheyenne, and that is something wrestlers would DIE for. Now take a man like someone stated in Chavo, who most likely is married and has kids. The money he makes is good on paper. I mean on paper, because he has to pay for insurance, road expenses, and then home expenses. If he gets injured and has to take time off, his financial stuff is screwed. In some ways would it be good to take time off for spending time with family and being able to heal, but if it is at the expense of not being financially sound for the future, then wrestlers fear is it really worth it? To summarize some other people's opinions, and to add some of my own, here it is: Make a more managed schedule that allows people to carry out longer and successful careers. Run TV shows every other week, only have 5 PPV's (Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania, King of the Ring, Summerslam, and Survivor Series) on the year with some other TV specials in between, and make house-shows run between Friday thru Sunday for the public, and put all the available talent together. Also, add in like "savings" accounts for insurance and other expenses. NOT A UNION, but give the wrestlers the option to shelf away money for the future. It would make the company look better, and give the employee (wrestler) some really nice options.
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Post by Supercheese on Jan 10, 2010 17:10:46 GMT -5
There are as many young actors and actresses dropping dead at young ages, is anyone criticising them?
As per usual it's a cheap shot at the WWE. TNA, ROH and the bigger independent promotions need to take a look at themselves and make sure they do enough in order to ensure that talent is not relying on drugs whether they be performance enhancement or drugs used for enjoyment such as cocaine.
How many wrestlers have died while on active service for the WWE in recent years that have been blamed on drugs?
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Post by Pounder on Jan 10, 2010 17:18:52 GMT -5
There are as many young actors and actresses dropping dead at young ages, is anyone criticising them? In fairness....yes. Yes they are. Far, far FAR more. This idea that it's only wrestlers who's death and drug problems attract media attention is laughable.
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Post by Brian Suntan on Jan 10, 2010 18:00:15 GMT -5
Perhaps they're paid too much? Maybe WWE should deduct travel and accommodation from their salary and organize it themselves. Wrestlers are paid far less than top draws in the NFL or NBA. The problem is that WWE doesn't have an off-season. It really needs one to give its employees a break and reduce injury rates. Wanna know the reason Jericho is in better shape than Rey? He took several years off to pursue other interests. If wrestlers had some sort of mandatory time off, their careers would be extended, their drawing potential would not suffer, and the industry would get much less negative publicity. The problem with the off season, is that likely the WWE will scale down on wages because they're getting less for their money. Even if they don't, the guys like Chavo still aren't making that much, and so will have to spend that period working the indies. People like Rey probably could do with some time off, but not many of them can afford too. It's an impossible situation for the WWE to tackle on their own.
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Maniac Mitch
Mephisto
Mary Droppins? ...well I thought it was funny
Posts: 669
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Post by Maniac Mitch on Jan 10, 2010 18:01:09 GMT -5
Shawn is at an age now where he doesn't have to go full-out every time he is the ring. But more importantly, he gets to be there for his kids, Cameron and Cheyenne, and that is something wrestlers would DIE for. Now take a man like someone stated in Chavo, who most likely is married and has kids. I like how you know the names of Shawn Michaels kids and yet only guess that Chavo is married with kids. I bet I can guess who you're a fan of... ;D Anyway, my opinion has always been that drugs and alcohol are only symptoms of the real problems. Wrestlers at the top work brutal schedules, without time to recharge. When they get injured, they get scared for their jobs because there's nothing to protect them from getting the axe when they get hurt(ie-Test getting fired a couple of months into rehab from a broken neck). So they work through injuries causing more pain. While Vince can't do anything about the rest of the business, he does have a responsibility to set the tone, being the most successful company. For the most part, indy workers set their own schedule. They decide what bookings they take, and how many days a week they'll work. Independant promotions often amount to empty facades. Having a ring, an empty gymnasium, some workers and a show every two or three weeks, doesn't put them on the same level. Anyone can scrape together some money, put on a show and call themselves a wrestling promotion. WWE on the other hand is a publicly traded, multi billion dollar company that locks their workers into exclusive contracts. They can't make that decision of "I'm feeling pretty run down, I'd better hold off on taking any more bookings". If they do, they're out of a job. The problem is, Vince is at his core a business man. The only reason he has wellness tests is because it behooves his business. It's a way to deflect criticism, but really he hasn't changed any of the systemic problems that are the real culprits. These workers are still on the road 300 days a year, getting battered five nights a week, all year long. There's nothing protecting them if they get hurt. Testing for drugs and paying for rehab is like giving someone a box of band-aids after pushing them into traffic. It's an impotent gesture that really doesn't address any real problems. My thoughts
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SAJ Forth
Wade Wilson
Jamaican WCF Crazy!
Half Man-Half Amazing
Posts: 27,214
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Post by SAJ Forth on Jan 10, 2010 18:10:12 GMT -5
I think it's not that they gave it to them, just that they were very indefferent for so long, that the lenient standpoint eventually came back to haunt them.
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wwerules60
El Dandy
"Bring what? a vomit bag? a fig newton?"
Posts: 8,999
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Post by wwerules60 on Jan 10, 2010 19:40:33 GMT -5
There are many many people who have graduated high school and are attending college but still do lots of drugs. I think the real problem is the never ending road schedule, no time to heal from getting slammed around every night which then leads to painkiller abuse and the need to stay in shape while being on the road that leads to steroid abuse. The only thing I always wonder is why the wrestling industry seems to be the only one attacked with this. Why does no one ever inquire into all the early deaths in the music industry? People do and often. Are you seriously trying to suggest that drugs, addiction and death in music aren't covered by the press? From what I read it makes 7/10 of showbiz stories in most print media. Frankly I don't think these wrestlers are stable human beings. A life of a huge pay cheques, no responsibility and nothing better to spend it on and without the brain power to know better, culminate in early deaths among wrestlers. Whilst some of us may see them as heroes, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that most are incredibly flawed human beings But when a drug related death is reported in some other entertainment area it's not an attack, they talk about how sad it is and stuff, but when it's a pro wrestling death it's all "STEROIDS!!! RAWR!!!!" instead of looking at it in a logical way. And I think the same can be said about most sports too, young guys with lots of money who do stupid things, but the media isn't as harsh on the NFL or the NBA as much as the WWE at all.
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Post by Red Impact on Jan 10, 2010 21:27:21 GMT -5
To compare WWE to any other sport is ridiculous. I agree, I only brought up the NFL because another poster asked for a sport where early death's for players had been brought up, and it didn't take that long. There are a lot of stories about NFL players (among many other athletes) who live with permanent pain because of their playing days. All other circumstances (including line of work, comparing athletes to performers) are different. Of course, no one is arguing that they looked the other way for decades. There's a good chance unless they were dumb and blew their money, they walk away from the NFL with a decent amount of money $450k after taxes. Just one thing I saw and wanted to point out, the dumb contingent would be almost 80 percent of them. Athletes are no better at managing their money than wrestlers. In fact, they could be a whole lot worse. And I think the same can be said about most sports too, young guys with lots of money who do stupid things, but the media isn't as harsh on the NFL or the NBA as much as the WWE at all. Really? Wow, that's news to me, I've noticed the media pounding sports leagues throughout the years. Then again, I really think wrestling fans may have a persecution complex of some sort.
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SAJ Forth
Wade Wilson
Jamaican WCF Crazy!
Half Man-Half Amazing
Posts: 27,214
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Post by SAJ Forth on Jan 10, 2010 21:28:22 GMT -5
Shawn is at an age now where he doesn't have to go full-out every time he is the ring. But more importantly, he gets to be there for his kids, Cameron and Cheyenne, and that is something wrestlers would DIE for. Now take a man like someone stated in Chavo, who most likely is married and has kids. I like how you know the names of Shawn Michaels kids and yet only guess that Chavo is married with kids. I bet I can guess who you're a fan of... ;D Anyway, my opinion has always been that drugs and alcohol are only symptoms of the real problems. Wrestlers at the top work brutal schedules, without time to recharge. When they get injured, they get scared for their jobs because there's nothing to protect them from getting the axe when they get hurt(ie-Test getting fired a couple of months into rehab from a broken neck). So they work through injuries causing more pain. While Vince can't do anything about the rest of the business, he does have a responsibility to set the tone, being the most successful company. For the most part, indy workers set their own schedule. They decide what bookings they take, and how many days a week they'll work. Independant promotions often amount to empty facades. Having a ring, an empty gymnasium, some workers and a show every two or three weeks, doesn't put them on the same level. Anyone can scrape together some money, put on a show and call themselves a wrestling promotion. WWE on the other hand is a publicly traded, multi billion dollar company that locks their workers into exclusive contracts. They can't make that decision of "I'm feeling pretty run down, I'd better hold off on taking any more bookings". If they do, they're out of a job. The problem is, Vince is at his core a business man. The only reason he has wellness tests is because it behooves his business. It's a way to deflect criticism, but really he hasn't changed any of the systemic problems that are the real culprits. These workers are still on the road 300 days a year, getting battered five nights a week, all year long. There's nothing protecting them if they get hurt. Testing for drugs and paying for rehab is like giving someone a box of band-aids after pushing them into traffic. It's an impotent gesture that really doesn't address any real problems. My thoughts For the record, he has a wife and 2 sons.
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wwerules60
El Dandy
"Bring what? a vomit bag? a fig newton?"
Posts: 8,999
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Post by wwerules60 on Jan 11, 2010 1:56:34 GMT -5
There are as many young actors and actresses dropping dead at young ages, is anyone criticising them? In fairness....yes. Yes they are. Far, far FAR more. This idea that it's only wrestlers who's death and drug problems attract media attention is laughable. It's not the attracting of media attention it's the fact that when an actor or musician dies no one attacks the movie studios or record labels for allowing it to happen but when it's a professional wrestler the WWE is completely at fault. Now I'm not saying that the WWE shouldn't take some responsibility, all I'm saying is that there is a double standard in the media when it comes to professional wrestling.
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Post by salsashark on Jan 11, 2010 2:20:52 GMT -5
To compare WWE to any other sport is ridiculous. Football players on the minimum make 300k a year (rookies) and vets make 700k, guys typically . These guys are people that their entire lives have been high pressure athletes with the center of attention on them for a lot of their career. Their average pro career is from 20 to 33. They have a players union that has successfully gotten things like pre-season pay, life, dental and medical insurance, severance pay, disability benefits and pension coverage. These are things that pro-wrestlers will never get. WWE's highest paid guy now is probably Cena making somwhere between 1.0 to 2.0 million (pre-merch), nowhere near the top pay of Eli Manning in the NFL at 15 million. That says a lot, but is still of a ton of money. Now, let's take someone like Chavo. He's probably making 150-250k. A respectable living but after taxes and expenses probably pull 75-100k a year in cash. That's a salary that while extremely respectable, is a salary that you cannot retire on at the age of 35. Compare that to an NFL scrub.. the average career of an NFL player is 3.5 years. They make a minimum of 300k WITH benefits, pension and insurance. They also have access to the NFLPA health insurance plan after they're done with the NFL. There's a good chance unless they were dumb and blew their money, they walk away from the NFL with a decent amount of money $450k after taxes. Most of them have some amount of college education and can afford now to go back and finish college. So these guys have to wrestle longer with less money to provide a stable financial structure for their families. Most of them do not have any skills outside of wrestling to get into a middle class office job or management position when they retire, so they get into high pressure, commission based jobs which add to existing heart conditions. While continuing to do one offs in indies for a good pay day here and there. While the WWE is doing a ton of stuff now to help and you have to commend them on that.. they completely looked the other way for nearly 20 years. There was a company culture of steroid, drug and alcohol abuse that was from many accounts McMahon was a big proponent of until he got in trouble. The wrestlers that are coming up now... the Punks, the Ryders, the Morrisons... they probably will live for a much longer time than guys who started in the 80's and 90's just because they are smarter in these areas. Gorgeous post! In fairness....yes. Yes they are. Far, far FAR more. This idea that it's only wrestlers who's death and drug problems attract media attention is laughable. It's not the attracting of media attention it's the fact that when an actor or musician dies no one attacks the movie studios or record labels for allowing it to happen but when it's a professional wrestler the WWE is completely at fault. Now I'm not saying that the WWE shouldn't take some responsibility, all I'm saying is that there is a double standard in the media when it comes to professional wrestling. Movie studios and record labels don't exert the overwhelming control on entertainers' lives that WWE does. Actors hop from studio to studio based on the project and when they're able to complete what work they prefer, and I'm not sure if record labels put bands through a constant grind like WWE. In my eyes, the difference is that working with WWE seems like it swallows your life versus working in those other circumstances where you're an actor or a musician with more freedom.
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Post by thesunbeast on Jan 11, 2010 5:28:55 GMT -5
I think I know the real problem. And yes, I'm going to go on another "Warrior" esque rant.
Instead of oversimplifying what I see and calling most wrestlers stupid, I think I have a rather well thought-out explanation as to why so many wrestlers are dying under the age of 50 or 40.
It has to do with human nature and the way people think. People seem to be very "tribal" minded. You're either a "this" or you're a "that", and I think people are tribal minded because it makes it easier on the person to identify yourself with others, but at what costs?
You're either (No politics, 'kay?) , you're either a jock, a nerd, a freak, a skater, a gangster, or a partier. In the "adult" world, a "laborer" would mean something just like it would to the people who learned to "label you" (or really, assign culture to irrelevant things) in high school. It's not a "high school" way of thinking (therefore no need to accuse people who think this way of having only a mild highschool education) no, it's a tribal way of thinking, one that found it's way into highschool, but the same type of thinking that our elite politicians and everyone underneith think aswell, just at an enhanced level.
So a "laborer" would mean something, an "office worker" would mean something, and an NFL football player, MLB baseball player, or NBA basketball player would all also mean something, and yes, a pro wrestler also means some other type of cultural lifestyle to alot of people that should have nothing to do with pro wrestling.
You can't listen to rap music without somehow making some other statement about yourself that should have nothing to do with rap. So, when someone asks you "what kind of music do you listen to", what they're REALLY asking you is "how cool are you and what kind of lifestyles, philosophies, concepts, pressuppositions, activities, dress styles, and other stuff do you define yourself as?". You can't listen to rap music without being "ghetto", you can't listen to rock music without being a "rocker", you can't listen to country music without being a "white, redneck cowboy" ect.... If you're black and well educated and dress conservatively, but you listen to country music, you are going to be given a hard time. Why?, because you aren't a white, redneck cowboy.......and so you aren't supposed to listen to that.
In the 80's, being a rocker meant being a hardcore partier with boose, drugs, and one-night stands. If you weren't any of these things, but you listened to rock music, you were "lying to everyone" because you're "telling them that you're a hardcore partier" when you aren't. If you're white and you listen to rap, you were bashed because you were automatically assumed to be someone who "didn't come up like that".
"You know, it's rock and roll man!" means a whole lot more than what it should. When someone slaps you on your ass on the football field after a good play, they may say "hey, it's football", but think about that for a minute. Don't get me wrong, they could slap each other's asses if they like, it's none of my business, but please don't blame it on football.
But there are alot more serious examples. The bottom line is that half of the world's seemingly "unsolvable" problems wholly revolve around linking culture to things it has ne business being linked to. A good example is racism. Did you know that racism could be fixed? You're damn right it could be fixed. It could be fixed in 10 years tops, and the reason why is because there is only 1 thing contributing to racism, and it's the stupidity of linking race to culture.
There is no such thing as a "white' culture or a "black" culture. Sure, you may have urban cultures and suburban cultures, but that doesn't mean they are black and white (no, just black and white ways of thinking, which is tribalism) they just CONTAIN predominantly black and white people because of the direct results of tribal ways of thinking. I myself am half black and half white. When asked what race I am, that's my answer. I don't fall for the ancient and very outdated philosophy that If I have a drop of black in me, then I'm black. I don't care how tough it is on the oversimplfied person's brain to accept it. I have two ethnicities, not one.
Eon's ago, it wasn't like that. Being biracial and a cultural individual, no one can tell me crap. I grew up in black households, and i grew up in white households. In the 80's racism was everywhere. Today, racism is still everywhere. BUT, there is a difference. there are two types of racism, #1 is when someone believes that one race is superior to another race and is conscience about it. This type of racism existed alot up untill the mid 1990's. And is few and far between today. The other type of racism, though, is when people are racist, but they don't know that they're racist. Unfortunetely, this type of racism still exists everywhere today, and no one knows it. It all started during really racist times when white racist people took all of the good things and just "claimed" it as "theirs" (a tribal word), and then told the black people that they had to get other things. These are traditions that still exist today, long after the civil rights movement.
Example: Correct english is correct english, it's not "talking white". It never was, and it never will be. However, people don't understand this. If you're black and are living in todays world, You let a white racist person of the 1920's claim proper english as "their's", and you AGREE with it, and decide to develop other things and decorate it and claim that as your own? If you are, then you are bying into the negative hype of correct english as being "white" and therefor you have to actually KEEP bad english and redefine it as "ebonics" and call it "black". No, that's not how you go about it. You take the correct english and use it as your's too, because it is.
Rosa Parks sat on the "white" side of the bus (the front, ofcourse). Why? If the white racist people of that day told her to get up and sit in the black section of the bus (the back, ofcourse) where she belongs, what should she have done? Should she have said "alright alright! I'm going to sit in the back, but let me tell you something! I'm going to show you! I'm going to decorate and bedazzle that back seat! And it's going to be mine, and you won't be able to sit in that seat either! So there!" Should she have done that? Absolutely not, she should have sat right there in that front seat, or better yet, moved on up to the very front seat.
So, why is it that when a black kid today is reading a book and studying, that his plack friend wil say "hey, put that book away, that's too white"? Think about it, what is this kid saying about black people? He's saying that white people have claimed studying as "theirs", and that black people are obligated to agree with this, and do something else and call it "black". Why is this?
People do this every day,but with much bigger things. People call the suburban culture "white", and therefore it is filled with white people because of it, people call the urban culture "black", and therefore it is filled with black people. It's not the victims fault either, as people who hire others fall for the same reasoning. Why do we do this to each other?
The answer is simple: We unwittingly hold on to the same traditions that were derived from racist times, and we have no business holding on to them anymore. Every single one of the racist traditions should be done away with.
Advertisers sell "happyness" as "white". Go to the toy store and look at all of the board games, you almost always have an all white and blonde family, with one black and one asian kid thrown in there obviously just for PC issues instead genuine reason. Barbie and Ken are white and blonde, and a black doll is "black Barbie". The media portrays white as "mainstream" and black as "alternative". How many movies do you know of that are filled with an all black cast that isn't about gangs, drugs, or the struggle of being black? You can count them on one hand as of 2010. People all over the United States see a white and blonde person and call them "all American looking". Am I not all American looking? If not, why? What is the All American look supposed to be? I think you get the picture. THESE are the traditions that we still hold onto today that were derived from racist times. We need to get rid of them.
But, why is all of that? Because they associate race with culture. They believe that happiness = white, that the mainstream issues of the world are "white" issues and the alternative issues of the world are "ethnic" issues, and that's why romantic comedies with all of this situations are all white actors, but drugs and gang movies are spanish or black. This is because our society actually believes that mainstream issues of the world are "white" and alternative issues of the world, like gangs and drugs, are "black and spanish", and go along with it. It's mostly the media's fault for KEEPING things this way.
So why don't people want to get rid of these traditions, and why do people still keep associating race with culture and thus indirectly keep contributing to racism? Easy, because people want to hold on to their tribal ways of thinking, because they are afraid of the consequences, mainly, having a harder time fitting in with each other and having a harder time oversimplifying other people in ways that make them feel like they know them after one conversation about something simple. And that's sad.
You get rid of racism by getting rid of the tribal way of thinking. You can't control the mind, but you can still get rid of the tribal way of thinking, all you have to do is get rid of the traditions that contribute to it, and set up traditions that are an opposition to it. Get rid of "Black history" month. Black history is American history, it isn't "Alternative" to "mainstream" (or white) American history. You can't deregulate Black history to a month. What are you indirectly saying about the other 11 months? Get rid of BET. "Black" entertainment is not "alternative" like it sounds with that label. What is it "alternative" to? You can't deregulate entertainers who happen to be black to a single channel. Get rid of "ebony' magazine.....you get the point. There is no "us" and "them" or "this" or "that". Like I said, there is no black or white culture, you just have different cultures that people associate black people and white people to.
It's the same thing with everything else that has a culture assigned to a sport or any other type of feild. No matter how smart you are, the wrestlers dying today were from the 1980's era of pro wrestling that had a culture assigned to it of sex and drugs, and people fell victim to it.
The only reason why I have found insight to all of this is because I myself am half white, half black, and I never once ever gave in to peer pressure my whole entire life, not once, and let me tell you something, I payed the price. I payed the very real, very true, heavy price for not associating culture with irrelevent things just because I would be easily identifyable to others. Most people have real nightmares of the mere thought of just being an individual and the truth is that the result could very well be even worse than your nightmares themselves. I still live it to this day and through it all, I don't regret it one bit, and I never will.
But, I understand why people illogically associate culture with race, or culture with jobs, or culture with activity, or culture with sport, it's because they think they're "supposed to", even though they're smart enough deep down on the inside to know that they don't really have to, but they are also scared to death to look the devil in the eye and spit in it and risk becoming a total outcast and potentially lose everything because they weren't "one of the boys" and not go along with the bad traditions that are associated with something. I am not against tradition, that would be another oversimplification, I am for it, but there are good traditions and there are bad traditions, and I am for the good ones and against the bad ones. There are bad traditions that used to be associated with pro wrestling, and people used to go along with them, and they paid the price.
Now, there are an awful lot of near genius pro wrestlers today, and some outright are geniuses. There truly are alot of smart people in pro wrestling, and we could name a whole lot of them and fill pages, but that's not the issue, the issue is courage. And unfortunetely, when it comes right down to it, most people in the wrestling business probably don't have the courage to do what's right when you are constantly surrounded by what most people's imaginations say are "beautiful people" or "cool people".'
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Post by Red Impact on Jan 11, 2010 9:09:54 GMT -5
It's not the attracting of media attention it's the fact that when an actor or musician dies no one attacks the movie studios or record labels for allowing it to happen but when it's a professional wrestler the WWE is completely at fault. Now I'm not saying that the WWE shouldn't take some responsibility, all I'm saying is that there is a double standard in the media when it comes to professional wrestling. Or maybe, just maybe, it's because they're entirely and completely different occupations with different sets of demands for the people they hold contracts to? Think about it, an actor dies of a drug overdose, are you going to blame the four different studios he released movies under for causing it? It's an entirely different situation from a wrestling company which looked the other way for decades and tossed out performers without a concern. Does that mean WWE deserves all the blame in it? Of course not, they're a major company and are only recently taking steps to try to help them, and wrestlers are grown men who make their own decisions, but to try to claim a double standard there is ludicrous. The demands are completely different and, like it or not, wrestling has a unique environment where steroid and painkiller abuse were more or less encouraged to keep up with schedules and demand, whereas, generally, musicians and actors who use drugs have different motivations.
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Post by angryfan on Jan 11, 2010 9:51:49 GMT -5
Wrestlers are by and large a bunch of idiots. I mean I know there are exceptions but really, most are complete morons. Really, get with the program here, bunch of people who are educated up until the age of 15, drop out of high school and spend the rest of their lives hitting each other trying to get noticed by volunteering to hit each other over the head with a steel chair. Really, are we that shocked that this is a group of people heavily into drink, drugs and eventually end up in an early grave? The problem isn't the industry, it's who the industry attracts. Yes there ARE people who are smart in the wrestling business, there are also politicians who don't bulls** and actresses who don't have botox but we're talking a tiny minority here. Wrestlers have no moral boundaries. They fraternise with each other, they travel with each other, they work with each other. It's boys and their toys. They get a few bucks, they blow it on drink. They earn a few more bucks, they blow it on girls. They earn serious bucks, they blow it on drugs. What's needed isn't drug testing. What's needed is educational standards. Do not employ someone unless they at LEAST have a high school diploma. Make it mandatory for all employees under 30 to attend college, part time. It isn't drugs that are killing these people it's lack of education. Educational standards? Top of my head, Jericho has a degree in journalism, Cena has one in sports medicine, Swagger I'm assuming does (4 years in college, probably a bachelor's in something or other), The ROck had a pair of Master's Degrees, both of the Dudley's had degrees. There are a good number of guys with advanced degrees in the business, althouth by no means does this mean all of them have higher education. Drug use, be it steroids or a 2oo dollar a day coke habit, has nothing whatosever to do with education, otherwise we wouldn't have seen countless CEO's and execs busted for wild coke parties in the 80's and 90's, a rise in meth use by young professionals in the business world, and so on.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 11, 2010 9:55:29 GMT -5
While the WWE is doing a ton of stuff now to help and you have to commend them on that.. they completely looked the other way for nearly 20 years. There was a company culture of steroid, drug and alcohol abuse that was from many accounts McMahon was a big proponent of until he got in trouble. The wrestlers that are coming up now... the Punks, the Ryders, the Morrisons... they probably will live for a much longer time than guys who started in the 80's and 90's just because they are smarter in these areas. This seems to sum it up nicely; according to most accounts written/spoken about by wrestlers who were there in the 80's/90's, it seems the "party hard" lifestyle didn't translate well to a 300+ dates a year road schedule that McMahon had his guys doing. Bear in mind WHY many of these guys got into awful habits on the road. Many accounts, and Bret Hart's does it most vociferously, go into the loneliness of the road life and how easy it is to go stir crazy when you travel North America and the rest of the world, yet barely get to leave your hotel room before a show. This doesn't excuse guys falling into drugs or other substance abuse, but it makes people a LOT more susceptible to it. Steroids are pretty obvious; Vince wanted bigger guys, and steroids was seen by many guys as their only way of getting big enough for him. Beyond that, you also can't ignore that, despite the long term, life threatening side effects of steroid abuse, steroids themselves also help you heal faster, and this, combined with rampant painkiller abuse, kept many wrestlers on the road, for fear that Vince would cast them aside if he detected they weren't durable enough. They stayed on the road despite having injuries that had to be treated, yet they were too afraid to show "weakness", out of fear for their job. And like it was already said, you simply cannot compare wrestlers with pro sports players who have their own unions making sure that the players don't have to pay for their own hotel rooms or transportation, that the players get meal vouchers, that the players get all the time off they need whenever they're injured, etc. You also can't ignore that pro sports players have homes that they get to return to for half of the season, where it's much easier to not cave into pressure to go out and party every single night. Having a home base you get to see half the season, AND all off-season, something wrestlers don't even have, which more than likely has your family nearby, is a huge psychological comfort for traveling athletes. Many wrestlers are lucky, especially if they're WWE wrestlers, to be home for 3 days at a time. The fact that WWE is NOW doing things to address the problem is admirable, but there's tons, TONS more that should be done. The surface has just been scratched, and it's on the biggest company of it's kind in the world to lead the way on it. They have the most resources, the most pull, and, unfair though it may seem, the burden falls on them to take the initiative and take the extra steps. EDIT: And great posts by some of you pointing out the difference between a drug related death in music/acting and a drug related death in wrestling. Yes, there are aspects of "the business" you could blame in either case, but neither the music nor the movie business exerts the level of control over a performer that WWE does, or at least they don't do it without MUCH better compensation for the performer. The most unfair business practice Vince did (and still does) is the whole "independent contractor" label he still has his wrestlers keep. Raven's lawsuit over this made the point clear as day: you cannot call somebody anything else but a full time employee if you're dictating who they can or can't work for, how they can or can't dress in public, how they can or can't speak to the media, etc. However, by keeping them independent contractors, but giving them none of the perks of actually being a REAL independent contractor (i.e. setting your own schedule, your own dress code, etc.), it's obviously much more profitable.
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