How did Bret Harts return get ruined?

[wcw]

Its pretty obvious that Bret Harts return now means nothing. His leg is kayfabe broken and the angle with McMahon has kinda been rendered meaningless. Where did it go wrong.

Now I understand that Bret couldn't wrestle he just wasn't physically up to the task. I think that it was ruined by WWE and Hart thinking that it could lead to a street fight vs McMahon or a at worst a tag match. Now when Hart tested the waters he realized he just couldn't do it and WWE had to change gears.

WWE should have built a big part of Wrestlemania around Bret Hart. In fact I would have used Bret's return as a way to push the Hart Dynasty. At least if Bret can't wrestle someone gets a good push out of it.

In fact the way I would have done that opening segment was have Bret call out McMahon and the two are getting along and Vince announces he is going to induct Stu Hart into the HOF. Then the Hart Dynasty comes down and tells Bret that his dad is too good for the HOF.

Then the Hart Dynasty beats down McMahon and Bret just watches with no show of emotion either way. Its one hell of a start to the angle and even if Bret can't go you still can have the Hart Dynasty involved in it as a surrogate to Bret.

[barley96]

I think that Bret Hart should be a manager. He is still insanely over, and with the right wrerstler(s) he could make them get over plus teach said wrestler(s) about wrestling.

[BxB]

I don't see this angle as a failure. They're going for the slow build with having Bret show up every two or three weeks, it could also be that he doesn't want to travel all that much. I wasn't expecting much from the WWE creative, and I'm just looking forward to when Bret inevitably locks in the sharpshooter on Vince. It's being booked like an old school storyline, Vince keeps getting the better of Bret, until the end, when Bret gets his hands on Vince.

[Deleted]

I don't think that it's ruined. However, the reason, I feel, that it's underwhelming is because it has turned into an angle. If they didn't kayfabe it and had Bret come in for a series of appearances, I think that it would've been fine. It feels disingenuous: the whole thing stared as a shoot but it's turned into a work.

[KofiMania]

What makes you think they won't do Vince vs. Bret in a Street Fight? In fact, I would expect it.

I'm thinking Bret and Cena planned that little car accident to sucker Vince into accepting a match with Bret.

[wcw]

Feb 27, 2010 1:42:29 GMT -5 BxB said:

I don't see this angle as a failure. They're going for the slow build with having Bret show up every two or three weeks, it could also be that he doesn't want to travel all that much. I wasn't expecting much from the WWE creative, and I'm just looking forward to when Bret inevitably locks in the sharpshooter on Vince. It's being booked like an old school storyline, Vince keeps getting the better of Bret, until the end, when Bret gets his hands on Vince.

Its probably not ruined yet but I just think it has lost a lot of momentum. I am OK with the slow build but with the leg break I think they are just coping out of the angle all together and just going for a cheap ending.

If the angle has a proper ending and more importantly they ramp up the build in the coming shows it could still work I just think that so far it really isn't going well. I feel like the WWE should have been much more creative like involving the Hart Dynasty in it.

[Spankymac is sick of the swiss]

Feb 27, 2010 1:46:33 GMT -5 KofiMania said:

What makes you think they won't do Vince vs. Bret in a Street Fight? In fact, I would expect it.

I'm thinking Bret and Cena planned that little car accident to sucker Vince into accepting a match with Bret.

Because Bret working any kind of a match, and especially a Street Fight(read: glorified hardcore match) would be a HORRIBLE idea for him physically? Any match other than "Bret punches Vince, locks in sharpshooter, Vince taps out" is beyond Bret's physical range at this point, I think.

[KofiMania]

Feb 27, 2010 1:48:33 GMT -5 Spankymac is sick of the swiss said:

Feb 27, 2010 1:46:33 GMT -5 KofiMania said:

What makes you think they won't do Vince vs. Bret in a Street Fight? In fact, I would expect it.

I'm thinking Bret and Cena planned that little car accident to sucker Vince into accepting a match with Bret.

Because Bret working any kind of a match, and especially a Street Fight(read: glorified hardcore match) would be a HORRIBLE idea for him physically? Any match other than "Bret punches Vince, locks in sharpshooter, Vince taps out" is beyond Bret's physical range at this point, I think.

Especially a street fight? That makes it 1000 times easier. All he would have to do is beat on Vince for 10 minutes with foreign objects, not take one bump, lock in the sharpshooter and win. You can even overbook it like Vince-Shane at X-7 and have a special ref and lots of interference.

[Barrock]

Pretty sure it isn't over. Just a big swerve.

[Greer]

I have lost all interest in this angle. Too slow, too predictable and just boring.

Bret makes appearance.
Vince acts nice.
Bret falls for it.
Vince tricks Bret.

Hooray!

There is absolutely zero intensity in this story.

[Tombi]

First, I don't think I've ever seen potential discussion for a topic completely erased so quickly in the opening sentence. Just stating your thoughts on the angle and seeing if other agree/disagree would have been dandy, not saying "I'm right, why am I right?"

Not that I can't see where you're coming from, though. I certainly can, but I don't particularly agree. What I think is the plan is Vince will mock a now disabled Bret next week and challenge him to the match anyway, riling him up so much that he accepts. The sympathy should be able to keep building up until Mania where Vince should have so much heat he's on fire, and Bret will find some way to rise from the chair ala Linda at X7 - beat him up for a while and lock in the sharpshooter to the roar of the crowd.

Just looking at Bret should tell you he needs to be a sympathetic character, he's been through a lot and still can't catch a break. The main kink in your plan is how much of a face Bret actually is. When you're getting the reaction he is you need to be careful not to flounder it by having him do heelish things - such as coldly staring at his nephews whilst they beat up a 60+ year old man. The last thing anybody wants to do is cheer Vince, but if stuff like this happens people will think they're supposed to and it won't go down well. The idea throughout seems to be getting maximum sympathy for Bret and maximum heat for Vince - and there's still a good few weeks to go.

I hope there's no more car accidents or any over-the-top crash TV, because yeah; it was a bit iffy. But we don't really know what will come together next week, and a nice slow build for a storyline where you don't get told everything at once is very refreshing.

[wcw]

Feb 27, 2010 2:02:54 GMT -5 Tombi said:

First, I don't think I've ever seen potential discussion for a topic completely erased so quickly in the opening sentence. Just stating your thoughts on the angle and seeing if other agree/disagree would have been dandy, not saying "I'm right, why am I right?"

Not that I can't see where you're coming from, though. I certainly can, but I don't particularly agree. What I think is the plan is Vince will mock a now disabled Bret next week and challenge him to the match anyway, riling him up so much that he accepts. The sympathy should be able to keep building up until Mania where Vince should have so much heat he's on fire, and Bret will find some way to rise from the chair ala Linda at X7 - beat him up for a while and lock in the sharpshooter to the roar of the crowd.

Just looking at Bret should tell you he needs to be a sympathetic character, he's been through a lot and still can't catch a break. The main kink in your plan is how much of a face Bret actually is. When you're getting the reaction he is you need to be careful not to flounder it by having him do heelish things - such as coldly staring at his nephews whilst they beat up a 60+ year old man. The last thing anybody wants to do is cheer Vince, but if stuff like this happens people will think they're supposed to and it won't go down well. The idea throughout seems to be getting maximum sympathy for Bret and maximum heat for Vince - and there's still a good few weeks to go.

I hope there's no more car accidents or any over-the-top crash TV, because yeah; it was a bit iffy. But we don't really know what will come together next week, and a nice slow build for a storyline where you don't get told everything at once is very refreshing.

Phrasing of my topic aside... I think that the angle isn't meaning what it should. This was a historic return and now it sorta feels like a B story when it should be one of the main plot points of the show.

The car accident thing to me screamed cheesy and they are going to need one hell of a build in order to make me care about what is going on with Bret.

I think by having the Hart Dynasty beat up Vince while Bret looks on or even tells them to stop makes the angle much more interesting. You give a good rub to the Hart Dynasty and you give an element of unpredictability the angle.

Its just an idea of what I came up with in like 5 minutes I am sure if I was getting paid to sit down for hours and think of a conclusion and build to the angle it would be much more laid out.

[celticjobber]

Feb 27, 2010 1:46:33 GMT -5 KofiMania said:

I'm thinking Bret and Cena planned that little car accident to sucker Vince into accepting a match with Bret.

Yeah, thats what I heard is going to happen. Its ludicrous to think this is their way of dropping the angle.

[Janitor From Mars]

It's not even DONE yet. How could it be ruined?

Geez. Can't people let it play it to the end before passing such judgments?

[Janitor From Mars]

Feb 27, 2010 1:48:33 GMT -5 Spankymac is sick of the swiss said:

Feb 27, 2010 1:46:33 GMT -5 KofiMania said:

What makes you think they won't do Vince vs. Bret in a Street Fight? In fact, I would expect it.

I'm thinking Bret and Cena planned that little car accident to sucker Vince into accepting a match with Bret.

Because Bret working any kind of a match, and especially a Street Fight(read: glorified hardcore match) would be a HORRIBLE idea for him physically? Any match other than "Bret punches Vince, locks in sharpshooter, Vince taps out" is beyond Bret's physical range at this point, I think.

It's his choice and his risk and I'm not going to pretend that I know what's best for Bret Hart.

["Dashing" Dr.VonPhoenix]

I don't see how it can be ruined when it's pretty much hell freezing over. The very fact that he came back at all is monumental. Even if the angle itself gets f***ed to hell and back long term, I'm excited that it's even happening.

[oafman]

Feb 27, 2010 3:12:47 GMT -5 "Dashing" Dr.VonPhoenix said:

I don't see how it can be ruined when it's pretty much hell freezing over. The very fact that he came back at all is monumental. Even if the angle itself gets f***ed to hell and back long term, I'm excited that it's even happening.

This.

[RI Richmark]

Feb 27, 2010 2:25:42 GMT -5 @wcw said:

Feb 27, 2010 2:02:54 GMT -5 Tombi said:

First, I don't think I've ever seen potential discussion for a topic completely erased so quickly in the opening sentence. Just stating your thoughts on the angle and seeing if other agree/disagree would have been dandy, not saying "I'm right, why am I right?"

Not that I can't see where you're coming from, though. I certainly can, but I don't particularly agree. What I think is the plan is Vince will mock a now disabled Bret next week and challenge him to the match anyway, riling him up so much that he accepts. The sympathy should be able to keep building up until Mania where Vince should have so much heat he's on fire, and Bret will find some way to rise from the chair ala Linda at X7 - beat him up for a while and lock in the sharpshooter to the roar of the crowd.

Just looking at Bret should tell you he needs to be a sympathetic character, he's been through a lot and still can't catch a break. The main kink in your plan is how much of a face Bret actually is. When you're getting the reaction he is you need to be careful not to flounder it by having him do heelish things - such as coldly staring at his nephews whilst they beat up a 60+ year old man. The last thing anybody wants to do is cheer Vince, but if stuff like this happens people will think they're supposed to and it won't go down well. The idea throughout seems to be getting maximum sympathy for Bret and maximum heat for Vince - and there's still a good few weeks to go.

I hope there's no more car accidents or any over-the-top crash TV, because yeah; it was a bit iffy. But we don't really know what will come together next week, and a nice slow build for a storyline where you don't get told everything at once is very refreshing.

Phrasing of my topic aside... I think that the angle isn't meaning what it should. This was a historic return and now it sorta feels like a B story when it should be one of the main plot points of the show.

The car accident thing to me screamed cheesy and they are going to need one hell of a build in order to make me care about what is going on with Bret.

I think by having the Hart Dynasty beat up Vince while Bret looks on or even tells them to stop makes the angle much more interesting. You give a good rub to the Hart Dynasty and you give an element of unpredictability the angle.

Its just an idea of what I came up with in like 5 minutes I am sure if I was getting paid to sit down for hours and think of a conclusion and build to the angle it would be much more laid out.

I like the Hart Dynasty as much as anybody here, but if they weren't related to Bret would anybody consider for this angle? They're a midcard tag team and aren't ready to be in the main event. Let them win the Tag Titles before they get any major pushes.

[variable]

Feb 27, 2010 1:59:07 GMT -5 Greer said:

I have lost all interest in this angle. Too slow, too predictable and just boring.

Bret makes appearance.
Vince acts nice.
Bret falls for it.
Vince tricks Bret.

Hooray!

There is absolutely zero intensity in this story.

too predictable? I mean honestly... how could they do it without it being predictable?

give everyone what we don't want?

[freestyle]

Feb 27, 2010 3:40:41 GMT -5 RI Richmark said:

Feb 27, 2010 2:25:42 GMT -5 @wcw said:

Phrasing of my topic aside... I think that the angle isn't meaning what it should. This was a historic return and now it sorta feels like a B story when it should be one of the main plot points of the show.

The car accident thing to me screamed cheesy and they are going to need one hell of a build in order to make me care about what is going on with Bret.

I think by having the Hart Dynasty beat up Vince while Bret looks on or even tells them to stop makes the angle much more interesting. You give a good rub to the Hart Dynasty and you give an element of unpredictability the angle.

Its just an idea of what I came up with in like 5 minutes I am sure if I was getting paid to sit down for hours and think of a conclusion and build to the angle it would be much more laid out.

I like the Hart Dynasty as much as anybody here, but if they weren't related to Bret would anybody consider for this angle? They're a midcard tag team and aren't ready to be in the main event. Let them win the Tag Titles before they get any major pushes.

This. Heck, I'm not even a fan of the Hart dynasty (I like it better when it seems like people can actually come up with their own gimmick rather then imitate someone else's).... I'm glad they have been keeping Bret's return more about Bret. Turning this into a Hart dynasty push is a waste of a 12 year absence IMO.