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Post by A Dubya (El Hombre Muerto) on Feb 27, 2010 5:57:31 GMT -5
How did Bret Hart's return get ruined? Well he came back to WWE that's how. Look at the track record. The Invasion storyline was ruined. The WWE incarnation of the nWo was subpar, and arguably ruined. The "return" of ECW as an alternative to Raw or SD was ruined too.
This proves to me that if there is ever anything fans want to see as a dream match they never thought would happen, or a feud that was before impossible...9.5 times out of 10, WWE will find a way to screw it all up, and make poor booking choices in the eyes of fans and long term viewers.
I am convinced that if there ever was a Sting vs Undertaker match in WWE, they would be feuding over something like who has the better trench coat.
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Post by The Ipod Sting on Feb 27, 2010 6:03:25 GMT -5
There are a lot of assumptions about what will and won't happen at WM and what Bret is and isn't capable of. I think a few people on here are in for a surprise.
So far as the angle being ruined, I disagree. I am enjoying every minute of Bret being back and the fact that his final match send off will be a great "WM moment" rather than some crappy WCW hardcore match against Terry Funk or throwaway 5 minute joust with Kevin Nash while working with multiple concussions is enough to have me fully behind it.
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Post by Piccolo on Feb 27, 2010 8:31:27 GMT -5
Repetitiveness, basically. I was excited for Bret the first night he was back. His segment with Shawn gave me chills, and the segment with Vince was terrific. The second night he was back, I was excited to see how he'd respond to what happened the first time. And then... we descended into the same old thing, week after week. Lots of talking, most of it good, but it was all pretty much on the same topic, same attitudes, no progression of any sort.
Is this the case because I'm just so burned out on Montreal after all the times WWE has exploited it? Is it because I have the attention span of a gnat and need things to have some variation every time to get me interested? I don't know. But I'm bored. And it's not because Vince and Bret are doing a bad job... they're both doing very well. I like both of them, and the story SHOULD be engaging me. But it isn't.
Hopefully it'll pick up again by Wrestlemania, though. I know there have been stories in the past that have kind of floundered in the middle, but that I remember fondly because they began and ended well. Maybe this will be one of them.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Feb 27, 2010 8:37:16 GMT -5
I wouldn't say it's ruined, I'm not into it really, but that's essentially cuz leading to the only place it can lead to- Vince in the Sharpshooter which is fine and will be a nice moment, it just feels like months waiting for that.
However I won't say they've ruined that, that still looks to be the great inevitability, and again will be a great moment in and of itself, and will look awesome in the highlight vids etc, and FINALLY provide a nice lil ending; ergo everything appears to still be on track for that, so how that's ruined I don't really see.
I will agree some of the extraneous stuff, the broken leg or whatever et al, does feel unnecessary, but I will cut 'em some slack on having to do something to prolong it 'till that one moment; I've just kinda lost interest in it.
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randomranter
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Post by randomranter on Feb 27, 2010 8:50:08 GMT -5
My thoughts....
First, this is WWE creative. They're very, very "hit or miss" when it comes to being able to deliver in big angles. And when I say "hit or miss", I mean that they miss a hell of a lot more than they hit. So it really doesn't surprise me that the angle so far has been underwhelming.
I'm also not sure that everybody involved knew exactly what Bret was and wasn't capable of. Maybe not even Bret himself. It's been a well-established fact for years that Bret cannot take a serious bump. But maybe Bret himself thought he could handle more than he could, and somewhere along the line realized he couldn't. And it's become very apparent to anyone who's watched any of Bret's appearances that this is the case -- the man cannot take a simple bump and cannot work even a "street fight" level match without putting himself in serious risk. This of course would force Vince/Bret/Creative to review and rewrite whatever they had planned for him to accommodate for Bret's limitations.
I'm not entirely going to write off the angle yet, but outside of the first week (which was very well done), it has certainly not been the epic storyline that it deserved to be. But, for once, it may not *entirely* be WWE creative's fault.
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Post by wrestlecrapcrap on Feb 27, 2010 10:05:40 GMT -5
Ruined?
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kidglov3s
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Post by kidglov3s on Feb 27, 2010 10:16:41 GMT -5
Awful, amateurishly staged, car wreck bit made it impossible for me to care. Already my life has improved significantly now that I no longer watch Raw. Still really happy that Bret Hart can go on TV and look as good as he does, but this angle really does not do justice to his legacy, I think.
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Post by laker8kiss on Feb 27, 2010 10:59:13 GMT -5
This is just my opinion. The angle was ruined the night that Bret ran into the ring and clumsily attacked Vince and then when Vince got away you saw Bret looking for Vince backstage. If anyone remembers he stumbles around and akwardly pulls out cables from monitors. Vince probably saw this and thought "no way on the grandest stage is this going to work." So he comes back out and announces no match. The car accident deal is being used to buy time to figure out how they are going to wrap this Bret Hart thing. Again, just my opinion
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Corporate H
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Post by Corporate H on Feb 27, 2010 11:10:10 GMT -5
I would've put the belts on The Hart Dynasty and build something off of that instead of giving it to a thrown together team. Miz should've gone one on one with MVP at WrestleMania and I would've stuck Show somewhere uunpredictable, like Money in the Bank.
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Post by KofiMania on Feb 27, 2010 14:28:26 GMT -5
Awful, amateurishly staged, car wreck bit made it impossible for me to care. Already my life has improved significantly now that I no longer watch Raw. Still really happy that Bret Hart can go on TV and look as good as he does, but this angle really does not do justice to his legacy, I think. Pretty sure it was staged by both Bret and Cena kayfabe-wise.
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kidglov3s
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Post by kidglov3s on Feb 27, 2010 15:20:06 GMT -5
Awful, amateurishly staged, car wreck bit made it impossible for me to care. Already my life has improved significantly now that I no longer watch Raw. Still really happy that Bret Hart can go on TV and look as good as he does, but this angle really does not do justice to his legacy, I think. Pretty sure it was staged by both Bret and Cena kayfabe-wise. But to me that would only add another level of highly unnecessary absurdity, where it was absolutely not needed. If they needed Bret to feign injury, why not just extend the admittedly goofy beating from Batista and then have Bret sell the holy hell out of it. Even then, the situation would become tired and convoluted where it didn't need to be. If this is supposed to be the punctuation to Bret Hart's career in the WWE it should be as his best moments were, graceful and classy. It started out on such a right note, with him and HBK, and has devolved into utter silliness. Either way it makes me very uncomfortable to watch someone who has been through so much real traumatic physical and emotional injury in and out of the ring doing a goofy fake injury angle.
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Randy Barber 4-Life
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Post by Randy Barber 4-Life on Feb 27, 2010 16:36:30 GMT -5
I guess it's premature to say ruined until it's over. But if you had told me that only two months after his return, I would care as little as I do right now about Bret Hart being on WWE television I would've called you crazy.
If you want something to be a hot angle, dragging it along as slowly and bit-by-bit as they've done this doesn't work. Slow build is fine but there's got to be something to sink your teeth into. This entire thing has seemed like 90% flashback and recap.
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Post by Pounder on Feb 27, 2010 17:20:45 GMT -5
There was no need for it to happen, yet, IMO.
Wrestlemania is in Phoenix. What the hell does Bret Hart have to do with Phoenix?
Bret Hart was being used as bait against Hogan and deep down, he knows it. He's been rushed into his big come back for the sake of McMahon trying to get one over on Hulk. That's all.
Now they're stuck with a storyline that was spur of the moment, ill thought out and falling flat.
Invasion angle, meet Bret Hart's return and introduce him to all the other highly anticipated storylines in wrestling that McMahon has with a shocking consistency, managed to miss-time, miss-judge, miss-manage or just...miss.
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Post by -Lithium- on Feb 27, 2010 17:22:24 GMT -5
It started when Bret was going around throwing a tantrum like a 5 year old, destroying stuff, and stumbling like an old man.
The car thing is what really brought it down. Honestly, I think its stupid to throw in ANY extra stuff. The real life drama was what sold this, and adding in all these kayfabed storylines actually detracts from the drama.
Would it have really hurt to just...be real, and say that Bret cant really compete due to his real life health issues?
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Square
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Post by Square on Feb 27, 2010 17:24:57 GMT -5
The reason why it was ruined? It could NEVER live up to the imagination of which the fans have. For over 12 years fans have had the chance to guess and create fantastic stories in which the Hitman returns but alas where he wins the world title or gives another 5 star match. But fantasy and reality are two septate things and what the fans want and the fans are getting are two different kettle of fish.
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Post by Pounder on Feb 27, 2010 17:26:29 GMT -5
It'd have preferred Bret to make a surprise entrance. During one of their Canada Raw's or at a hotbed area PPV.
A surprise appearance not hype it up in advance.
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Post by KingPopper on Feb 27, 2010 17:35:00 GMT -5
People wanted to see a worked shoot storyline, which is what they were going untill Bret got hit by a car. Simple as that.
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Nr1Humanoid
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Post by Nr1Humanoid on Feb 27, 2010 19:00:12 GMT -5
Bret isn't exactly above faking a leg injury. Right Lawler?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2010 19:05:20 GMT -5
The reason why it was ruined? It could NEVER live up to the imagination of which the fans have. For over 12 years fans have had the chance to guess and create fantastic stories in which the Hitman returns but alas where he wins the world title or gives another 5 star match. But fantasy and reality are two septate things and what the fans want and the fans are getting are two different kettle of fish. Exactly, no matter what. This angle won't live up to expectations. It's just not possible.
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Post by Jason on Feb 27, 2010 19:09:23 GMT -5
Honestly? Throwing John Cena into it ruined it completely for me. I HATE John Cena, I've streched that many times on here. He and Bret have no chemistry at all, and the fact that the biggest story in wrestling history finally pays off with a John Cena match, makes me sick. I don't care if he's the top guy or not, I don't like him and I think Bret Hart is above him.
Actually, I don't think Bret Hart should have came back at all. Maybe to guest host Raw and then bury the hatchet with Vince and Shawn. But that's it.
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