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Post by madness50 on May 19, 2010 0:17:41 GMT -5
I think the PG stuff is good for business in WWE, but they need to remember that parents and older people still attend/watch their shows. They market to these kids like they complete idiots. I mean these new PPV names are ridicilous, Money in the Bank, TLC, Hell in a Cell, Elimination Chamber? Gimme a goddamn break, why dont they just have a PPV called WWE Matches lol. RAW can be almost embrassing for me to watch at my own home at times due to the campy skits and lame "comedy" routines. It makes me sick that they cannot even say "ass" on their programming anymore. I watch PG shows on network TV that say ass, damn, hell, son of a bitch, etc. I am not saying that they should cuss all the time, but every now and again would be fine. Blood should make an appearance every now and again, especially in cage/HIAC matches. Vince needs to realize that its not 1985 anymore and people know that wrestling is truly staged. A more "real" factor could increase ratings and bring viewers back, at least for a while.
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Post by darbus alan on May 19, 2010 0:43:50 GMT -5
Yeah, I also see the PG rating as a scapegoat. You can have a mature, adult program without a TV-14 or MA rating. Granted, pro wrestling is about as low-brow as low-brow entertainment can get, but still.
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luiscurse
ALF
Don't puke on my pimp hat Warriah!
Posts: 1,005
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Post by luiscurse on May 19, 2010 1:01:26 GMT -5
I think they need to walk that line of realism again the way Stone Cold did when he first broke big. Daniel Brian's shoot-like promo on tonight's NXT is the freshest thing in a long time. Why is that? Because he broke through the facade and touched a behind-the-scenes reality with seemingly legitimate anger. We need more of that realism. WWE Creative should consider starting a renegade faction of wrestlers who lost NXT led by Brian, where they all drop their characters and speak truth to power from the common man perspective. These are the times we're living in and I think this is the best way to capitalize on the mood of America (at least. I don't know about other countries.) And who better to lead that charge than a passionate wrestler who has toiled in the smaller leagues his whole career, and is a leftist, noncapitalist vegan to boot?--pretty much everything WWE and the dying consumer culture isn't. It may sound weird but I think he is credible and reflects the turning tide of the people better than anyone I've seen. Give him the ball and the backing of his outcast NXT peers and you will bring in a whole new audience. Imagine the green crowd watching wrestling. It could happen! This Also book it like WWF 1997, when there was edginess(not as much as a year later in the Attitude Era) but it was still about the wrestling.
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Post by truwrestlingfan on May 19, 2010 1:04:50 GMT -5
{Disclaimer) I dont really think "PG" WWE is the awful nightmare some people keep obsessing over. That being said: Find a happy medium. You cant go back to 1993 where we have Doink the Clown and and Bastion Booger running around. At the same time, you also cant re-create 1999 where you had middle fingers and satanic rituals. Something along the lines of 1996-97, you mean? If so, I concur. Haha nooooooooo....1997 had Bret Hart laying F-Bombs on USA. I never want the E to go back to that point. That was the only time I have ever been embarrassed to be wrestling fan. And yes, that is counting the Briscoe Patterson Lingerie match
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2010 1:35:40 GMT -5
They won't. UFC pretty much guarantees they won't. I enjoy UFC, but until people start doing hurricanranas off the top of the octogon cage I'll still watch wrestling too. While there is a big crossover audience between various combat sports (wrestling included even though it's worked) the actual in ring product is very different between UFC, boxing, wrestling, etc. As far as what I personally would like from WWE, I'd like something similar to the 2002/2003 product. It was much more of a straight up wrestling promotion, but still had a spice of that sports entertainment flavor that only WWE can properly provide.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on May 19, 2010 2:58:20 GMT -5
You can tell that they're at least trying. RAW has been a solid wrestling show for the past month, and Randy Orton's face turn has established him as the Anti-Cena.
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jamielowndes {N}
Unicron
The following post has been paid for by the Nexus World Order
Posts: 3,240
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Post by jamielowndes {N} on May 19, 2010 4:02:15 GMT -5
Wrestling. An exciting in-ring product that has the right mix of athletic prowess and flashy spots. Adults by and large prefer MMA because WWE wrestling often looked cartoony and hard to believe.
Writing. Logical storylines that dont stretch beyond the realm of common sense.
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Dave at the Movies
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
VINTAGE D-DAY DAVE! Always cranking dat thing.
Posts: 18,228
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Post by Dave at the Movies on May 19, 2010 4:04:54 GMT -5
I think WWE is trying in some ways especially with Randy Orton and last night with Danielson's attack on Cole.
I think they have a real chance here to push Danielson threw the roof if they keep doing this right. They need to make him everything WWE isn't.
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Gummydavidson
Dennis Stamp
Johnny Davidson for Prime Minister!
Posts: 3,933
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Post by Gummydavidson on May 19, 2010 5:11:34 GMT -5
Blood and a few curse words now and again would be good
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Post by I *still* ✡ Johnny on May 19, 2010 5:24:31 GMT -5
I still think they should market the "Raw Zone" as a totally seperate hour from the first. Give it a TV-14 rating, have blood, some swearing and maybe some more edgy stuff. That way, the first hour is still okay for kids, and it gets increasingly edgier through the night.
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Post by slickster on May 19, 2010 6:28:17 GMT -5
Consider the source.
Donna Goldsmith is the COO, not a writer or a booker.
Prior to her WWE job, she worked for the NBA in the same position.
I'd presume she was suggesting ways to leverage existing WWE properties (like the tape library) in a more visible way on regular WWE programming in order to draw in older fans.
I think WWE is happy with their TV-PG philosophy but they want to give older fans some more retro content.
I would like to see what would happen ratings-wise if WWE ran Vintage Collection in North America and gave it a good amount of advance promotion.
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Post by seamonsters on May 19, 2010 6:34:18 GMT -5
You don't need swear words to appeal to an older audience (and let's be honest, when McMahon says older, he means wider audience - he'll never stop chasing the financial plus of pester power). And in an era where the WWE is rightly trying to do something to look after the welfare of it's wrestlers (so that we don't get people dropping dead below 50), you don't need blood. TNA has blood and cursing, and look at the ratings.
You only really need to make one change to have a product where you can bring the whole family in. Change the writing team. Not one guy or two, but pretty much a clean sweep.
Look at Raw, with Brian Gerwitz, and whichever wannabe Hollywood writers and/or TV show rejects they have writing at the moment. Then, look at Smackdown with Michael Hayes in charge of the team. And look at the era where wrestling appealed to the widest audeince. And look who was writing - Pat Patterson, Bill Watts, Dusty Rhodes, Ric Flair and the likes.
Let writing wrestling TV no longer be a stepping stone to being one of a team of people writing a crappy sitcom. Give it back to the people that understand wrestling. Can you imagine, with all their knowledge and experience of what does work and what doesn't work in wrestling, if you kicked out the TV writers and replaced them with the likes of Steamboat, Anderson, Rotunda, Malenko, Lombardi and Finlay? Add guys such as Dusty, Steve Keirn and Jim Duggan - conference call it if the guys don't want to do a road schedule or move to Conneticut.
What Cornette says about the seven year rule is broadly true (give or take movements in pop culture) - those guys know what worked seven, 14, 21, 28 years ago, and what worked at one time and didn't another. Being a wrestling fan just isn't enough to understand the business. Being a TV writer just isn't enough to write a wrestling show. You need to listen to the people that have lived it, and made a living, not just for themselves, but for others out of it.
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Ken Ivory
Hank Scorpio
This sorta thing IS my bag, baby.
Posts: 5,282
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Post by Ken Ivory on May 19, 2010 6:34:51 GMT -5
Beths Boobs Screw her boobs!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2010 6:54:56 GMT -5
They're heading in the right direction I think.
And for the record I have no desire to revisit the Attitude era, you don't need gratuitous T&A or ultra violence to get people to watch. What you do need are logical storylines that steadily increase in tension until the big blow off match. It's worked for years, it will still work now.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on May 19, 2010 7:31:24 GMT -5
{Disclaimer) I dont really think "PG" WWE is the awful nightmare some people keep obsessing over. That being said: Find a happy medium. You cant go back to 1993 where we have Doink the Clown and and Bastion Booger running around. At the same time, you also cant re-create 1999 where you had middle fingers and satanic rituals. Wasn't WCW a PG show? Its possible to have a serious but not graphic wrestling program that appeals to kids without insulting the older audience. Things like Hornswaggle fighting and beating Chavo each and every weak insults the older wrestling fan. Seriously watch WCW in its prime it appealed to kids (It appealed to me as a kid) yet it was the 1st wrestling program to get a big adult/teen audience (Before WWF pulled them away during the attitude era). All in all there is a way to have a PG program without insulting an older viewer. During it pre Russo days it was mostly.When the NWO did there thing it was edgier then PG but not by much. Looking back they didn't cruse at all. The worst thing you would hear was like "I'm going to kick your butt!!!" That was really the insult they used at time. But with Savage, he had his times. The biggest thing I recall is the playboy and spray painting Kimberly. That is an example of no so PG. Scott Steiner near a mic wasn't so PG either. With all the end of the show 10 guys beating down one guy. How PG is that? But that was the thing about WCW at that time and the WWE now. There was an angle with the NWO that fans of all ages got interested in. Plus there was the exciting Crusierweights which a lot of there moves was new and exciting as well. WWE doesn't have that division or that kind of angle taking place.
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Post by Cactus Jack on May 19, 2010 8:57:32 GMT -5
This is good news.
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Post by hmbnimbus on May 19, 2010 9:46:04 GMT -5
Basically, more drama, more heat, some blood once in awhile, and no cheesy skits or angles. The older audience is into MMA now. Go in that direction. I have to disagree. Wrestling just can't compete with MMA, but fortunately, it works the other way around, too. Play up the drama, skits, and angles, because that "live-action comic book" vibe and camp factor is what makes pro wrestling so unique. Most importantly, though, the match quality has to be top-notch. A shoot fight just can't compete with the drama of a match that's designed to tell a story. WWE needs to avoid being more realistic, and they also need to avoid being a variety show. Play to what makes pro wrestling great. Spot on.
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Post by nerdinitupagain on May 19, 2010 10:37:38 GMT -5
The only ways you're going to get back the older crowd is put a heavier emphasis on wrestling again OR go completely wild like the Attitude era.
PG is the right business for WWE in this MMA world.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2010 10:53:05 GMT -5
The average age of the Raw audience is late 30s, compared to early to mid 20s during the Attitude era. Obviously they lost a lot of viewers after the Attitude era, but the ones they kept seem to be those that have just stuck with the product, but perhaps have young children now who they want to be able to take to house shows. You do realize when you do the math, the exact same demograph is still following the WWE. That said, to appeal to the 18-24 audience today, you have to find something that clicks with them. You are not going to do that with an outdated model of 'crash tv' because that audience wasn't old enough then to fully appreciate it. Change is coming soon, once Vince McMahon retires and the New Generation begins to manifest itself. I am telling you a new era will come, whether or not it would be succesful determines whether WWE can fully captures the current 18-24 audience.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2010 11:46:20 GMT -5
I don't think putting on a show more appealing to adults requires doing more maturely rated segments that make people not want to bring their young kids, they could do it just fine continuing in PG style.
A little more actual wrestling couldn't hurt to start. I'm not saying to halve everyone's promo time, but an extra 10 minutes of wrestling per 2 hour program would be quite appealing.
The nature of wrestling says that continuity is going to be abandoned sometimes, I'm aware of that. Even so, no reason to go out of the way to do so when it isn't necessary. Make people feel like what they watched in the past has more bearing on things today, over time it'll make people less likely to want to miss an episode. They've actually been doing a better job with this recently, which is good. However most tension seems to be forgotten when someone turns face/heel. EX: If some guy Morrison feuded with turns face, they'll be tagging soon after and it'll be completely forgotten. They can still work together while having some nods to the past. Some slight tension doesn't have to result in the "payoff" of them brawling.
Different kinds of promos would be good. I feel like my intelligence is being insulted when I hear the same promo from Cena 3 months in a row. Face AJ Styles was also doing this on Impact and it started to make me dislike him. They don't need to be creative masterpieces, but I don't think cutting promos with some different subject matter or tone is too much to ask.
Of course, none of this requires any more than a PG rating, and none of it alienates kids. Alone they're little things but wrestling shows are a combination of lots of little things that come together and become entertaining.
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