AFN: Judge Shred
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wanted to change his doohicky.
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Post by AFN: Judge Shred on Aug 19, 2010 17:54:33 GMT -5
Kind of odd that I am a huge GL fan, and not so much of the Surfer, I like him, I just don't connect like I do with Guy or Kyle, or even Kilowog, and yet I think Surfer detroys any GL, maybe even multiple. Unless we are talking Ion or Parallax, and even then, Surfer has the edge.
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Post by Red Impact on Aug 19, 2010 18:06:04 GMT -5
Writers do have a lot to do with it. Neither company is really that great in making their characters consistent.
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pegasuswarrior
El Dandy
Three Time FAN Idol Champion
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Post by pegasuswarrior on Aug 19, 2010 20:28:56 GMT -5
its not so much anymore, but superman could once upon a time do ANYTHING. he was the strongest, fastest, telescopic sight, x-ray hearing, great hair... and flash, no longer just a really fast guy, now can move so fast as to time travel. i understand in a mythos of superman, darkseid, green, yellow, purple, and mauve lanterns, he needs to get a boost or a guy who is 'just really fast' becomes irrelevent, or at best left out of the loop when the big universe threatening stories occur. you're correct, though. i never remember scarlet witch be so powerful. catching up on comic events after not caring about them for years (well, not so recent events really lol) - and she is powerful enough to alter all of reality? its worse than DBZ with the powerups. i have fun discussing these things, as long as people are willing to joke about it a bit Wolverine - Accelerated Healing. Reasonable power, able to take damage. In the Marvel universe, that makes him completely and totally immortal. He can pretty much kamikaze a tank and walk away without a scratch. That's just simply not true. I can't let this one get by as a cop out. Wolverine is totally killable. Wolverine is not even in the Top 10 "mortals" in Marvel Universe I would consider "near immortality." In kayfabe, Wolverine's got to be one of the luckiest characters in entire Marvel Universe, because that sucker is totally vulnerable if approached the right way. I just think it's a "cop out" to say he's that overpowered. There are so many others more deserving of that title. It's Wolverine's writers that protect him, not Wolverine's "abilities" and invulnerabilities. If Wolverine is immortal, then by the same standards, so is Batman, just because their writers MAKE them seem that way. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And with the score being tied in the poll, PLEASE lock that poll and allow the thread to continue. Everyone here on both sides of the discussion deserve nothing less than ultimate gridlock. I commend both the DC and Marvel fans alike for their contributions. This is great.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Aug 19, 2010 20:33:29 GMT -5
Wolverine - Accelerated Healing. Reasonable power, able to take damage. In the Marvel universe, that makes him completely and totally immortal. He can pretty much kamikaze a tank and walk away without a scratch. That's just simply not true. I can't let this one get by as a cop out. Wolverine is totally killable. Wolverine is not even in the Top 10 "mortals" in Marvel Universe I would consider "near immortality." In kayfabe, Wolverine's got to be one of the luckiest characters in entire Marvel Universe, because that sucker is totally vulnerable if approached the right way. I just think it's a "cop out" to say he's that overpowered. There are so many others more deserving of that title. It's Wolverine's writers that protect him, not Wolverine's "abilities" and invulnerabilities. If Wolverine is immortal, then by the same standards, so is Batman, just because their writers MAKE them seem that way. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And with the score being tied in the poll, PLEASE lock that poll and allow the thread to continue. Everyone here on both sides of the discussion deserve nothing less than ultimate gridlock. I commend both the DC and Marvel fans alike for their contributions. This is great. Wolverine has come back from being ripped in half and came back from having just a single drop of blood in him. Batman's did neither. Pretty much it seems the only way to kill Wolverine is to either drop him into a volcano, drop him into the molten center of a planet, throw him into space, or drop him into a star. Cause, as long as the guy has a chance to heal, he won't freaking die.
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AFN: Judge Shred
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wanted to change his doohicky.
Member of The Bluetista Buyers Club
Posts: 18,221
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Post by AFN: Judge Shred on Aug 19, 2010 20:44:34 GMT -5
No, Bats just gets killed by Darkseid's most powerful attack, only to be so awesome that it only displaced him in time for a while instead of actually killing him.
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Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
Amy Pond's #1 fan
Hail Hydra!
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Post by Legion on Aug 19, 2010 20:45:43 GMT -5
Batman got Omege Effect'ed, a thing that on any else is insta-bloody death, but to him is just a jaunt through time.
Every big character always has bigger, larger than life ways out of being killed/maimed/lost in time and space.
That is the point of comics!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2010 20:47:01 GMT -5
You could kill Wolvie with that Musaki or whatever sword.
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Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
Amy Pond's #1 fan
Hail Hydra!
Posts: 23,013
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Post by Legion on Aug 19, 2010 20:49:23 GMT -5
Muramasa
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Post by hossfan on Aug 19, 2010 20:51:26 GMT -5
No, Bats just gets killed by Darkseid's most powerful attack, only to be so awesome that it only displaced him in time for a while instead of actually killing him. The Omega Sanction was supposed to do that, though, as I recall. Darkseid wanted Bats to be lost in time and experience defeat in every incarnantion. As for Wolverine regenerating from a single cell, if its the story I'm thinking of his blood splattered against some cosmic MacGuffin (after getting killed by the villain) and that was what really saved him.
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pegasuswarrior
El Dandy
Three Time FAN Idol Champion
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Post by pegasuswarrior on Aug 19, 2010 22:01:50 GMT -5
That's just simply not true. I can't let this one get by as a cop out. Wolverine is totally killable. Wolverine is not even in the Top 10 "mortals" in Marvel Universe I would consider "near immortality." In kayfabe, Wolverine's got to be one of the luckiest characters in entire Marvel Universe, because that sucker is totally vulnerable if approached the right way. I just think it's a "cop out" to say he's that overpowered. There are so many others more deserving of that title. It's Wolverine's writers that protect him, not Wolverine's "abilities" and invulnerabilities. If Wolverine is immortal, then by the same standards, so is Batman, just because their writers MAKE them seem that way. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And with the score being tied in the poll, PLEASE lock that poll and allow the thread to continue. Everyone here on both sides of the discussion deserve nothing less than ultimate gridlock. I commend both the DC and Marvel fans alike for their contributions. This is great. Wolverine has come back from being ripped in half and came back from having just a single drop of blood in him. Batman's did neither. Pretty much it seems the only way to kill Wolverine is to either drop him into a volcano, drop him into the molten center of a planet, throw him into space, or drop him into a star. Cause, as long as the guy has a chance to heal, he won't freaking die. Two things: "accelerated healing" and "long as the guy has a chance to heal" Both are major loopholes if the enemy really wanted to kill him. It's not immortality. Accelerated healing is not insta-healing or "prohibition from death." There are lots of characters that easily counteract the healing factor; the biggest problem always seems to be penetrating the adamantium, but it's still counterable. Like I said, he's been written out of more circumstances that could have killed him than situations he's actually survived due to abilities. Heck, Conan the Barbarian has killed him in a one-on-one fight ... granted, it was a "What If?" issue, but the scenario clearly painted the picture that if you just got someone who wouldn't let up and was a better fighter (which really isn't hard by any means) Wolverine *could* possibly be toast. And in case you want to know, Conan hit him in his major arteries/veins and bled him out before he had a chance to fully "heal." Once Wolverine was smashed and left to start "healing", Conan went barbaric on him and it was over. I DO think Wolverine is very hateable and completely overfeatured as this annoying poster boy for Marvel (i.e., I HATE him), but I don't hate him due to being "overpowered." I think he's very vulnerable, and I keep waiting for the day he ticks off the wrong character, one that would actually do something to him rather than just swat him away like the annoying little fly he is. (He DOES sorta "lose" a lot, from a certain point of view.) Now, if you want to talk about "overpowered," talk about Deadpool. I try to keep things in perspective, but even that piece of trash and his faithful following drives me up a wall (the fourth wall, if you will). In fact, check that, let's NOT talk about Deadpool ... ever. But, to wrap this up, I see what you're saying. It's just one of those "agree to disagree" situations for me. I know you know your stuff and know what you're talking about, so I'm not arguing (or discussing) from a "know-it-all" perspective. I just happen to think he's nowhere near unstoppable OR immortal based on my readings or my "hypotheticals." I think a lot of people hate him like I do, but just for the (from my perspective) not-so-accurate reasons. I hate him because he's totally not that great, while some others seem to hate him for being "too great," I think. It's all good.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Aug 19, 2010 22:08:25 GMT -5
Wolverine has come back from being ripped in half and came back from having just a single drop of blood in him. Batman's did neither. Pretty much it seems the only way to kill Wolverine is to either drop him into a volcano, drop him into the molten center of a planet, throw him into space, or drop him into a star. Cause, as long as the guy has a chance to heal, he won't freaking die. Two things: "accelerated healing" and "long as the guy has a chance to heal" Both are major loopholes if the enemy really wanted to kill him. It's not immortality. Accelerated healing is not insta-healing or "prohibition from death." There are lots of characters that easily counteract the healing factor; the biggest problem always seems to be penetrating the adamantium, but it's still counterable. Like I said, he's been written out of more circumstances that could have killed him than situations he's actually survived due to abilities. Heck, Conan the Barbarian has killed him in a one-on-one fight ... granted, it was a "What If?" issue, but the scenario clearly painted the picture that if you just got someone who wouldn't let up and was a better fighter (which really isn't hard by any means) Wolverine *could* possibly be toast. And in case you want to know, Conan hit him in his major arteries/veins and bled him out before he had a chance to fully "heal." Once Wolverine was smashed and left to start "healing", Conan went barbaric on him and it was over. I DO think Wolverine is very hateable and completely overfeatured as this annoying poster boy for Marvel (i.e., I HATE him), but I don't hate him due to being "overpowered." I think he's very vulnerable, and I keep waiting for the day he ticks off the wrong character, one that would actually do something to him rather than just swat him away like the annoying little fly he is. (He DOES sorta "lose" a lot, from a certain point of view.) Now, if you want to talk about "overpowered," talk about Deadpool. I try to keep things in perspective, but even that piece of trash and his faithful following drives me up a wall (the fourth wall, if you will). In fact, check that, let's NOT talk about Deadpool ... ever. But, to wrap this up, I see what you're saying. It's just one of those "agree to disagree" situations for me. I know you know your stuff and know what you're talking about, so I'm not arguing (or discussing) from a "know-it-all" perspective. I just happen to think he's nowhere near unstoppable OR immortal based on my readings or my "hypotheticals." I think a lot of people hate him like I do, but just for the (from my perspective) not-so-accurate reasons. I hate him because he's totally not that great, while some others seem to hate him for being "too great," I think. It's all good. All the more reason why Wolverine "beating" Lobo was pure crap. As Lobo actually IS immortal.
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Post by Red Impact on Aug 19, 2010 22:17:33 GMT -5
No, Bats just gets killed by Darkseid's most powerful attack, only to be so awesome that it only displaced him in time for a while instead of actually killing him. Wolverine's been vaporized down to the skeleton and regenerated in minutes. Normally, he's back to fighting form in seconds after being ripped to shreds by bullets, suffering and entire body of third degree burns, or losing major organs. His power represses traumatic memories and even restores missing eyes. You can blame writers or whomever you want, but they are the ones who define the limits of the characters, and Wolverine has been greatly overpowered over the years. Sure, I'd agree that he "could" be killed, but writers have set the standard so high that, frankly, I wouldn't expect anything short of Galactus eating him and pooping him into a black hole to be what finally does him in if it's in combat. (yeah, he could age for a millennium or two, but I don't think that counts.) Yes, he can die to the Muramasa blade, but, frankly, that's just another example of a Marvel plot macguffin they use to add vulnerability to characters who otherwise have little to fear. It's like Kryptonite with Superman, when he's at his strongest, there's no tension in a Superman story without introducing that plot macguffin. On the second point, Batman didn't survive the Omega Effect, he was hit with the Omega Sanction. Omega effect is instant death (except for Superman), Omega Sanction is designed to eternally torture the victim. So the attack wasn't meant to kill him. Yes, it's a writer's cop-out, but it's a different power. As for how he's gotten back from it, that was a horribly convoluted story that I don't think has even fully been played out yet. That's not to say Batman has never been overpowered, he has been, but he's also been significantly owned in the past as well. When Batman doesn't have a chance to be anal-retentively prepared, he's perfectly capable of losing. He's protected more by the fact that Gotham's villains are nothing compared to the villains most of the heroes face.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2010 23:27:29 GMT -5
Another thing to add, Wolverine has been booked to have Cena like abilities. There was one comic book where he beat the entire Avengers-B team with his bone claws. Other items, in an alternative reality, he literally kills the Silver Surfer with his claws in Age of Apocalypse.
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Post by Mr. Emoticon Man, TF Fan on Aug 19, 2010 23:53:23 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, what powers does Lobo have beyond being immortal? Because, in and of itself, that's not really all that impressive. Immortal just means you can't die, but you can easily be beaten into a pulp or incapacitated without death needing to be part of the equation.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Aug 20, 2010 0:27:24 GMT -5
DC triumphs.
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Post by Cela on Aug 20, 2010 2:20:51 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, what powers does Lobo have beyond being immortal? Because, in and of itself, that's not really all that impressive. Immortal just means you can't die, but you can easily be beaten into a pulp or incapacitated without death needing to be part of the equation. He trades blows with Superman with relative ease. And other powers included.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Aug 20, 2010 3:55:44 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, what powers does Lobo have beyond being immortal? Because, in and of itself, that's not really all that impressive. Immortal just means you can't die, but you can easily be beaten into a pulp or incapacitated without death needing to be part of the equation. His powers(according to Wikipedia) are: - Superhuman sense of smell. Superhuman strength. Superhuman stamina. And Superhuman durability. - Regenerative healing factor. - Immortality. - Genius level intellect(though you'd be hard press to tell by the way he talks). So yeah, the guy can't be killed, can regenerate, and has super strength and stamina. He so totally should have owned Wolverine's ass. Though.....it isn't unlike Lobo to be paid to throw a fight...... >_>
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dantheman
Trap-Jaw
Being crazy was the only thing that kept me from going insane.
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Post by dantheman on Aug 20, 2010 4:00:17 GMT -5
NOTHING CAN STOP THE POWER COSMIC!
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Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
Amy Pond's #1 fan
Hail Hydra!
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Post by Legion on Aug 20, 2010 7:36:31 GMT -5
Yeah, Lobo is much much much worse that Wolverine in terms of can't die factor.
Wolverine can actually be taken down, and it takes him a while to come back from serious death like being ripped in half or having his adamantium ripped out, where as Lobo literally pops up after two minutes from a splash of blood.
Makes you wonder how he killed his whole race if they have that ability......
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theryno665
Grimlock
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Post by theryno665 on Aug 20, 2010 7:42:28 GMT -5
I don't see an "Amalgam" option in that poll.
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