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Post by Red Impact on Aug 20, 2010 8:05:58 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, what powers does Lobo have beyond being immortal? Because, in and of itself, that's not really all that impressive. Immortal just means you can't die, but you can easily be beaten into a pulp or incapacitated without death needing to be part of the equation. His powers(according to Wikipedia) are: - Superhuman sense of smell. Superhuman strength. Superhuman stamina. And Superhuman durability. - Regenerative healing factor. - Immortality. - Genius level intellect(though you'd be hard press to tell by the way he talks). So yeah, the guy can't be killed, can regenerate, and has super strength and stamina. He so totally should have owned Wolverine's ass. Though.....it isn't unlike Lobo to be paid to throw a fight...... >_> You know those fights were a series of popularity contests? People voted on who they want to win, and the comics reflected that character winning.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Aug 20, 2010 8:07:04 GMT -5
His powers(according to Wikipedia) are: - Superhuman sense of smell. Superhuman strength. Superhuman stamina. And Superhuman durability. - Regenerative healing factor. - Immortality. - Genius level intellect(though you'd be hard press to tell by the way he talks). So yeah, the guy can't be killed, can regenerate, and has super strength and stamina. He so totally should have owned Wolverine's ass. Though.....it isn't unlike Lobo to be paid to throw a fight...... >_> You know those fights were a series of popularity contests? People voted on who they want to win, and the comics reflected that character winning. Yes, I know that. Just shows you how wrong those MARVEL fans were in that fight.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Aug 20, 2010 8:08:59 GMT -5
Yeah, Lobo is much much much worse that Wolverine in terms of can't die factor. Wolverine can actually be taken down, and it takes him a while to come back from serious death like being ripped in half or having his adamantium ripped out, where as Lobo literally pops up after two minutes from a splash of blood. Makes you wonder how he killed his whole race if they have that ability...... Actually the reason Lobo is immortal, and only he, not the rest of his race, is because he was banned from both Heaven AND Hell, so he still TECHNICALLY dies, but he has no where to go once he dies, so he just comes back.
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Post by Baixo Astral on Aug 20, 2010 9:04:24 GMT -5
I hate Superman. I cannt stand the guy. I hate how he is like Poochie and all the other big guys are always asking where he is during cross overs, and I hate the way he is portrayed as literally being able to do everything, and, more importantly, he is always so morally righteous and up his own arse, but acts all innocent and benevolent. As such, I always back Thor in these things (although, if Superman is hurt by magic more than physical attacks, then frankly, he would go down to magical Thor). This makes me sad.
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Post by waluigi on Aug 20, 2010 9:11:03 GMT -5
Batman got Omege Effect'ed, a thing that on any else is insta-bloody death, but to him is just a jaunt through time. Every big character always has bigger, larger than life ways out of being killed/maimed/lost in time and space. That is the point of comics! He got Omega SANCTIONED...there's a difference And in a fight written outside of a popularity contest, Lobo would tear Wolverine apart. The dude was fighting after having his head blown clean off.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Aug 20, 2010 9:48:42 GMT -5
You know those fights were a series of popularity contests? People voted on who they want to win, and the comics reflected that character winning. Yes, I know that. Just shows you how wrong those MARVEL fans were in that fight. Or just what people wanted. You disagree, but to win, even DC fans must have voted Wolverine, same as how Marvel Hulk fans must have voted Superman and so on. I hate Superman. I cannt stand the guy. I hate how he is like Poochie and all the other big guys are always asking where he is during cross overs, and I hate the way he is portrayed as literally being able to do everything, and, more importantly, he is always so morally righteous and up his own arse, but acts all innocent and benevolent. As such, I always back Thor in these things (although, if Superman is hurt by magic more than physical attacks, then frankly, he would go down to magical Thor). This makes me sad. It's still the truth, and his recent JMS helmed run is really really not helping on that score. Batman got Omege Effect'ed, a thing that on any else is insta-bloody death, but to him is just a jaunt through time. Every big character always has bigger, larger than life ways out of being killed/maimed/lost in time and space. That is the point of comics! He got Omega SANCTIONED...there's a difference And in a fight written outside of a popularity contest, Lobo would tear Wolverine apart. The dude was fighting after having his head blown clean off. Isn't the Omega Sanction still meant to see you lost in time, not being all clever and able to get to vanishing point and do all the rest? Again, it comes down to writers. Where some characters would just be gone, Batman, because he is Batman, gets to be that awesome. It is the nature of these characters, however much we discuss who we think should or shouldn't do well.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Aug 20, 2010 9:59:07 GMT -5
Yes, I know that. Just shows you how wrong those MARVEL fans were in that fight. Or just what people wanted. You disagree, but to win, even DC fans must have voted Wolverine, same as how Marvel Hulk fans must have voted Superman and so on. This makes me sad. It's still the truth, and his recent JMS helmed run is really really not helping on that score. He got Omega SANCTIONED...there's a difference And in a fight written outside of a popularity contest, Lobo would tear Wolverine apart. The dude was fighting after having his head blown clean off.[/quote] Isn't the Omega Sanction still meant to see you lost in time, not being all clever and able to get to vanishing point and do all the rest? Again, it comes down to writers. Where some characters would just be gone, Batman, because he is Batman, gets to be that awesome. It is the nature of these characters, however much we discuss who we think should or shouldn't do well. [/quote] Well of course they probably voted for Wolverine, he was the poster boy of comics back then. Everyone knew about him and bowed down to him. Still doesn't change that if they really did fight, Lobo would've won.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Aug 20, 2010 10:27:24 GMT -5
True enough, Lobo is a 'broken' character in terms of his immortality and such.
I dislike that term, but it does tend to apply to character who can't actually die like that.
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Post by waluigi on Aug 20, 2010 10:28:07 GMT -5
How can you call Superman a Poochie? I mean at least he contributes to stories at large.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Aug 20, 2010 11:07:05 GMT -5
Because whenever he isnt there, everyone stands around asking where he is.
This was especially evident in the mid 90s, in the JLA series and in Underworld Unleashed.
So, it's like when Homer says to imprive Poochie 'everyone should stand around asking where he is'
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Post by hollywood on Aug 20, 2010 11:33:08 GMT -5
I hate Superman. I cannt stand the guy. I hate how he is like Poochie and all the other big guys are always asking where he is during cross overs, and I hate the way he is portrayed as literally being able to do everything, and, more importantly, he is always so morally righteous and up his own arse, but acts all innocent and benevolent. As such, I always back Thor in these things (although, if Superman is hurt by magic more than physical attacks, then frankly, he would go down to magical Thor). This makes me sad. Agreed. I'm gonna speak up for Kal-El since no one else is... This really just cements why I like Superman so much. In a growing environment of superheroes who range from sadistic bastards (Spawn, Punisher) to self-loathing emos (Batman, Spider-Man), Superman remains the one and only optimistic superhero in existence. He's the only one who isn't defined by tragedy. He doesn't help people because his parents were murdered or because he failed to help a loved one as a child. He does it just because it's the right thing to do. Despite the moral and ethical ramifications, from a reader's standpoint it make him one of the few truly unique characters. DC's Executive Editor once accurately called Superman the "fireman of the DC Universe." He doesn't judge people. He doesn't look down on people. He goes out and helps, then he waits until he's needed again. And just for the record, just because you don't care for a character or how he's been written or how he's portrayed or whatever...doesn't necessarily mean the character is "broken."
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Aug 20, 2010 11:41:41 GMT -5
Agreed. I'm gonna speak up for Kal-El since no one else is... This really just cements why I like Superman so much. In a growing environment of superheroes who range from sadistic bastards (Spawn, Punisher) to self-loathing emos (Batman, Spider-Man), Superman remains the one and only optimistic superhero in existence. He's the only one who isn't defined by tragedy. He doesn't help people because his parents were murdered or because he failed to help a loved one as a child. He does it just because it's the right thing to do. Despite the moral and ethical ramifications, from a reader's standpoint it make him one of the few truly unique characters. DC's Executive Editor once accurately called Superman the "fireman of the DC Universe." He doesn't judge people. He doesn't look down on people. He goes out and helps, then he waits until he's needed again. And just for the record, just because you don't care for a character or how he's been written or how he's portrayed or whatever...doesn't necessarily mean the character is "broken." Except that Superman does judge. He is always judging. You have to do things Superman's way or you can't do it. When Wonder Woman broke Max's neck to save the world from possessed Superman, he judged. When those aliens were minding their own business in Superman 702, he decided to judge (although I loved the point they made about him being just as illegal an alien as them). When Batman does something he disagrees with, he judges. When anyone does anything he disagrees with, he judges. But he doesnt just vocalise it, he gets involved, he makes his threats, he does his power stuff, and he ALWAYS GETS HIS WAY. I'm afraid i subscribed to the Lex view of things, he is an alien, but he thinks he gets to decide how everything goes and how things should be. Yeah, he is a good guy, of course he is. But he is only good. To the point he is an extremist. He never backs down, never sees it from anyone elses point of view and never minds his own business. And sure, a character that someone doesnt like shouldnt be called 'broken' just because of that dislike, but if Surfer and his power cosmic is to be put in that class, then Superman gets to be in it as well.
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Post by Mr. Emoticon Man, TF Fan on Aug 20, 2010 11:47:04 GMT -5
Superman bores me; they just made him way too powerful. If it wasn't for that, I'd probably like him for the same reason that you just described: his reason for being a hero. I'm a huge fan of Captain America for a similar reason. But since they loaded him with everything they could, I just can't connect to him.
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Post by Yami Daimao on Aug 20, 2010 13:33:58 GMT -5
Superman bores me; they just made him way too powerful. If it wasn't for that, I'd probably like him for the same reason that you just described: his reason for being a hero. I'm a huge fan of Captain America for a similar reason. But since they loaded him with everything they could, I just can't connect to him. This. I mean I'm all up for superpowered heroes, but come on. It's basically the same reason why most people dislike Cena's character.
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Post by The poster with no name on Aug 20, 2010 13:45:29 GMT -5
Agreed. I'm gonna speak up for Kal-El since no one else is... This really just cements why I like Superman so much. In a growing environment of superheroes who range from sadistic bastards (Spawn, Punisher) to self-loathing emos (Batman, Spider-Man), Superman remains the one and only optimistic superhero in existence. He's the only one who isn't defined by tragedy. He doesn't help people because his parents were murdered or because he failed to help a loved one as a child. He does it just because it's the right thing to do. Despite the moral and ethical ramifications, from a reader's standpoint it make him one of the few truly unique characters. DC's Executive Editor once accurately called Superman the "fireman of the DC Universe." He doesn't judge people. He doesn't look down on people. He goes out and helps, then he waits until he's needed again. And just for the record, just because you don't care for a character or how he's been written or how he's portrayed or whatever...doesn't necessarily mean the character is "broken." Except that Superman does judge. He is always judging. You have to do things Superman's way or you can't do it. When Wonder Woman broke Max's neck to save the world from possessed Superman, he judged. When those aliens were minding their own business in Superman 702, he decided to judge (although I loved the point they made about him being just as illegal an alien as them). When Batman does something he disagrees with, he judges. This I just got done the novel, and though most of it Superman is judging both Batman and Wonder Woman.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Aug 20, 2010 14:51:34 GMT -5
The only reason Supes does good is because he was RAISED to do good. If he was, say, raised by the Luthor family, I kinda doubt he'd be going around saving everyone right now.
Also, Supes is an extremist good guy. In D&D terms, he's Lawful Good, and if you've ever played a Lawful Good character in D&D, you know they are never fun(they are bitching in battle, but you are extremely limited in the outside of battle roleplay). I mean just look at Supes in Kingdom Come. Yes, I know, Elseworld, thus, alternate universe, and thus not true canon, but still, THAT is Supes' true colors right there. In Kingdom Come it was truly a "with me or against me" Supes.
Can't we just go back to the days where Supes couldn't fly, and instead was just super strong, super fast, and had super jump?
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Post by Red Impact on Aug 20, 2010 15:00:49 GMT -5
The way I read him, Superman judges based on actions more. He's a little like Frank Castle. It doesn't matter who the perp is, there's simply a right and a wrong in the world and people choose to take their actions. Where they differ, of course, is in their world views.
A lot of heroes (Frank Castle, for example) take on a Rorshach viewpoint, where the world is filthy and dirty and people are animals, Superman is the opposite. He thinks the world is good, people are good, and while they may falter, people can change. It doesn't take fear or grievous injury to change people, they can be shown the error of their ways and change on their own. He thinks this often to a fault.
A good example, I find, is Kingdom Come. It may be an Elseworld's comic, but I think it represents his viewpoint in the world well. Just because people masquerade as heroes doesn't make them good, or better than the villains. And because he can do so much more than the average person, he puts it all on himself to change things and is devastated when he can't. He puts the highest standards of all on himself.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Aug 20, 2010 15:31:47 GMT -5
The way I read him, Superman judges based on actions more. He's a little like Frank Castle. It doesn't matter who the perp is, there's simply a right and a wrong in the world and people choose to take their actions. Where they differ, of course, is in their world views. A lot of heroes (Frank Castle, for example) take on a Rorshach viewpoint, where the world is filthy and dirty and people are animals, Superman is the opposite. He thinks the world is good, people are good, and while they may falter, people can change. It doesn't take fear or grievous injury to change people, they can be shown the error of their ways and change on their own. He thinks this often to a fault. A good example, I find, is Kingdom Come. It may be an Elseworld's comic, but I think it represents his viewpoint in the world well. Just because people masquerade as heroes doesn't make them good, or better than the villains. And because he can do so much more than the average person, he puts it all on himself to change things and is devastated when he can't. He puts the highest standards of all on himself. The thing with Kingdom Come, though, is that all the new heroes were also the new villains. In that world's post-Magog era, there were no more clean cut heroes and villains, everyone just fought everyone, and they were doing it for FUN. And I'm actually amazed Supes still has the world view he has. I mean does the dude need to take a tour of the world with The Spectre to learn that, at least in the DC-verse, his world view is naive(not necessarily wrong, just something a child would think)?
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Aug 20, 2010 16:11:48 GMT -5
You missed the entire point of Kingdom Come if all you took away from it was that Superman felt you were either with him or against him.
Early on that was so, but that failed and he adapted; and learned that the MAN part was just as important as the SUPER.
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Post by Legion on Aug 20, 2010 16:15:21 GMT -5
It's interesting. The idea that Superman 'takes it on himself' and 'feels for everyone' also means that, going back to the OP, the Ghost Rider could potentially take him down. Penance Stare - attacks you based on the guilt you feel. If Supes feels all that guilt and obligation, it could work. It even took down Galactus in the old FF cartoon ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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