Ian Austin
Don Corleone
All will be well
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Post by Ian Austin on Dec 22, 2010 11:59:52 GMT -5
You're getting confused.
I said that Survivor Series was his chance to be seen as a legitimate wrestler within the WWE. Not that a good match would net him more success. But he did have a chance to show something that would make him worthy, in their eyes, of a push. His mistake was that he gave them more reason to bury him and treat him like crap.
If someone is looking to bury you, don't give them MORE reason and justifiable cause by kicking the IC champ in the face as hard as you possibly can.
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randomranter
Dennis Stamp
When you grow up....... YOU'RE GONNA BE WROOOOOONG!!!!
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Post by randomranter on Dec 22, 2010 12:09:41 GMT -5
You're getting confused. I said that Survivor Series was his chance to be seen as a legitimate wrestler within the WWE. Not that a good match would net him more success. But he did have a chance to show something that would make him worthy, in their eyes, of a push. His mistake was that he gave them more reason to bury him and treat him like crap. If someone is looking to bury you, don't give them MORE reason and justifiable cause by kicking the IC champ in the face as hard as you possibly can. You're talking like (a) Kaval is the only guy who's ever stiffed another wrestler ever, and (b) he did it intentionally. Accidents happen, and that's all it was. I fully agree that it didn't do him any favors. But even if he had missed that kick, every indication we have is that the whole thing was supposed to be a blow off match anyway and that he was going to continue being booked as a jobber. We have no reason to believe that he'd have been booked any differently had he missed that kick. The WWE's mind seems to have been made up on Kaval. They've decided to use him as a jobber, and are booking him accordingly. And given the tight control WWE has on matches these days, what do you think Kaval could have done differently that you think would miraculously make them change their mind and give Kaval a push? (Besides "don't kick ziggler in the face")
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Dec 22, 2010 12:12:54 GMT -5
You're getting confused. I said that Survivor Series was his chance to be seen as a legitimate wrestler within the WWE. Not that a good match would net him more success. But he did have a chance to show something that would make him worthy, in their eyes, of a push. His mistake was that he gave them more reason to bury him and treat him like crap. If someone is looking to bury you, don't give them MORE reason and justifiable cause by kicking the IC champ in the face as hard as you possibly can. But he did have a good match at Survivor Series. MOTN in my opinion. Hell every one of his matches that weren't squashes were good. They even could have used the stiff kick to further his feud with Ziggler much like how they use legit injuries to feul a feud in the past. Kaval was booked like a jobber for 3 months, won a fluke match vs Ziggler, was put in a throwaway match at Surviver Series just so they could take away his title shot, and then continued to be a jobber after. Maybe if Kaval had been a serious midcarder befor the SS match then became a jobber that would make sense, but you have no argument to say that the reason he's a jobber now is because of the SS match.
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Psychoblue
Don Corleone
WrestleCrap #1 Kona Crush mark (probably)
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Post by Psychoblue on Dec 22, 2010 12:16:38 GMT -5
There's a lot of talk in this thread about how the crowd will stop taking Kaval seriously and lose all of his heat.
Are we not part of that crowd? Is our outrage at all of this not proof that he does indeed still have his heat?
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Dec 22, 2010 12:21:28 GMT -5
There's a lot of talk in this thread about how the crowd will stop taking Kaval seriously and lose all of his heat. Are we not part of that crowd? Is our outrage at all of this not proof that he does indeed still have his heat? Well since the WWE doesn't value the IWC's opinion when it comes to booking, we shouldn't value our own either.
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Psychoblue
Don Corleone
WrestleCrap #1 Kona Crush mark (probably)
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Post by Psychoblue on Dec 22, 2010 12:22:49 GMT -5
There's a lot of talk in this thread about how the crowd will stop taking Kaval seriously and lose all of his heat. Are we not part of that crowd? Is our outrage at all of this not proof that he does indeed still have his heat? Well since the WWE doesn't value the IWC's opinion when it comes to booking, we shouldn't value our own either. I dunno. During that first week of NXT Season 1 when Bryan was fighting Jericho, the crowd popped pretty big for him despite having never been in WWE TV before, which lends credence to the idea that these "Indy darlings" aren't as esoteric as we think.
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randomranter
Dennis Stamp
When you grow up....... YOU'RE GONNA BE WROOOOOONG!!!!
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Post by randomranter on Dec 22, 2010 12:30:34 GMT -5
There's a lot of talk in this thread about how the crowd will stop taking Kaval seriously and lose all of his heat. Are we not part of that crowd? Is our outrage at all of this not proof that he does indeed still have his heat? The IWC is a very, very small percentage of the overall WWE fanbase. Most things that the IWC cares about, the other 99% of the fanbase couldn't give a shit less about. And it works the other way too -- there are things that the casual fans care about that the IWC couldn't give a shit less about.
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Post by rapidfire187 on Dec 22, 2010 12:35:09 GMT -5
Am I going to be the only one to say that I think Kaval is injured? I read reports not too long ago that he had an MRI and didn't wrestle at Tribute to the Troops despite being there. I was actually surprised when I read that he was on Smackdown, but not so shocked when I saw that he got pwned by McIntyre. It may simply be a way of writing him out. Then again, I didn't see it so I don't know if the beating was severe enough to justify an injury angle.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Dec 22, 2010 12:35:56 GMT -5
Well since the WWE doesn't value the IWC's opinion when it comes to booking, we shouldn't value our own either. I dunno. During that first week of NXT Season 1 when Bryan was fighting Jericho, the crowd popped pretty big for him despite having never been in WWE TV before, which lends credence to the idea that these "Indy darlings" aren't as esoteric as we think. Well my theory on the DB thing is that the reason he's getting a push now is because of all the uproar everyone had because of his "release" which the WWE couldn't ignore, not his run on NXT. I think his run would have been completely different if the tie incident hadn't happened.
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Post by rapidfire187 on Dec 22, 2010 12:38:47 GMT -5
There's a lot of talk in this thread about how the crowd will stop taking Kaval seriously and lose all of his heat. Are we not part of that crowd? Is our outrage at all of this not proof that he does indeed still have his heat? The IWC is a very, very small percentage of the overall WWE fanbase. Most things that the IWC cares about, the other 99% of the fanbase couldn't give a s*** less about. And it works the other way too -- there are things that the casual fans care about that the IWC couldn't give a s*** less about. I kind of take issue with that statement, and I've seen it used a lot. How do we know that the IWC is a small portion of the audience? Is there a poll that I missed? This isn't 1996 when the internet wasn't a common household thing. At this point the term "IWC" can basically apply to the majority of WWE fans, because it certainly seems that they spend a lot of time on WWE.com and posting stupid crap on the WWE Universe facebook page. If you want to say that the majority of WWE fans aren't smarks or fans of wrestling outside of WWE, I can easily buy that.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Dec 22, 2010 12:40:47 GMT -5
Am I going to be the only one to say that I think Kaval is injured? I read reports not too long ago that he had an MRI and didn't wrestle at Tribute to the Troops despite being there. I was actually surprised when I read that he was on Smackdown, but not so shocked when I saw that he got pwned by McIntyre. It may simply be a way of writing him out. Then again, I didn't see it so I don't know if the beating was severe enough to justify an injury angle. Yeah I read the report too, and it was mentioned I believe earlier in the thread. But he's been wrestling pretty much every week since the reports been out so there's reason to believe it's not serious. And like you said the McIntyre beatdown wasn't bad enough for me to think it's an angle to write Kaval out so he can heal. Also it wouldn't make for a good face turn if Drew is taking out and injuring faces. EDIT: Also it's not like Kaval was involved in any angle recently so there's no reason to write him out. He could go on break now and few would even notice. I think it was just a way to further prove that Drew is more evil inside the ring than outside, and lead into this... ugh... thing with Kelly Kelly (nothing good can come of this).
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nonrev
Don Corleone
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Post by nonrev on Dec 22, 2010 12:41:23 GMT -5
Kaval's credibility is damaged right now. It's up to the E if they want to at least try and make money off of him.
I think an extremely smart idea right now would be to have him be eliminated in the Rumble (assuming he makes it in) by Daniel Bryan. Hell make them entrants #1 and #2. And hell have Kaval eliminated in like 10 seconds.
Then Kaval flips his shit. Have him go on a Brett hart destroying the floor rampage. Until all the refs drag him to the back. Then later in the rumble have Kaval illegally return back to deliver a stiff kick to Bryan causing someone else to win the rumble.
Then you milk the feud with the newly pissed off Kaval vs Daniel Bryan for maina in a 2 month build. If they make that match at mania, it could very well get even the most cheap ass guys like me to buy the pay-per-view (and I never buy pay-per-views). It is the only way I think they can salvage Kaval in time for mania and make his match actually get people to pay to watch.
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toonami4life
Don Corleone
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Post by toonami4life on Dec 22, 2010 15:38:28 GMT -5
For those saying he was taken out immediately cause of his injury, it wasn't serious. The MRI revealed the injury wasn't serious and he wasn't expected to miss time.
And those claiming it was an concussion due to his kick, Ziggler worked that week's smackdown after SS and every smackdown since then. He sounds healthy to me.
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Ian Austin
Don Corleone
All will be well
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Post by Ian Austin on Dec 22, 2010 16:16:44 GMT -5
For those saying he was taken out immediately cause of his injury, it wasn't serious. The MRI revealed the injury wasn't serious and he wasn't expected to miss time. And those claiming it was an concussion due to his kick, Ziggler worked that week's smackdown after SS and every smackdown since then. He sounds healthy to me. I never said it was a concussion. What I said was that it was: 1) Reckless. 2) Full on. 3) Looked like it knocked Ziggler out. The last one could be seen as selling, if not for the fact that Kaval hit him full-on. It's the grace of luck that it wasn't a concussion inducing blow.
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toonami4life
Don Corleone
Better than your favorite crossover
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Post by toonami4life on Dec 22, 2010 16:50:18 GMT -5
For those saying he was taken out immediately cause of his injury, it wasn't serious. The MRI revealed the injury wasn't serious and he wasn't expected to miss time. And those claiming it was an concussion due to his kick, Ziggler worked that week's smackdown after SS and every smackdown since then. He sounds healthy to me. I never said it was a concussion. What I said was that it was: 1) Reckless. 2) Full on. 3) Looked like it knocked Ziggler out. The last one could be seen as selling, if not for the fact that Kaval hit him full-on. It's the grace of luck that it wasn't a concussion inducing blow. The kick Daniel Bryan gave him two months ago knocked him out harder than Kaval's kick did.
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Post by itssoeasy23 on Dec 22, 2010 16:59:46 GMT -5
When are you people gonna add Swagger, or Barret to the "who we wanna win, should win, and if he or she does not, they are buried," topic?
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Post by Andrew is Good on Dec 22, 2010 17:00:06 GMT -5
To defend Kaval, if you look at the tape, Ziggler wasn't in the corner, and looked like his back was turned, and wasn't ready. But, while Kaval was in full motion, it was too late to do anything and Ziggler couldn't react quick enough. I think that was an example of lack of timing on both their parts, which ended up with a vicious kick to the face.
Keep in mind, the match itself, while I enjoyed it, the reaction of it, it was like two of the divas were out there.
I haven't seen it, and I always find things best to judge when I see it myself, because a lot of the time what's reported on the internet ends up not being the case, which is strange.
Wins and loses do matter to an extent. Raven talked about it before like guys with Arn Anderson, people said, oh, he's such a good worker, we can go over him and he can get his heat back. Well, if you're beaten too much, you can't get your heat back. But, NXT season 1 I think really threw a monkey wrench in the idea of wins and loses mattering.
Daniel Bryan, Skip Sheffield and Michael Tarver had the worst records. Daniel Bryan is now the US Champion, and I feel that Sheffield and Tarver would have went a lot further had they not been injured. But, they were thought of as the menacing members of Nexus. Despite the fact they had the worst won/loss record of the Nexus group.
If Kaval was jumped before the match, there is an excuse there. But Jimmy Yang was treated like a jobber for so long, and the same thing happened with him. Same thing happened with Charlie Haas I do believe. Having him go out a few weeks ago vs Chavo Guerrero, when they weren't using Chavo was odd, but that's what made it look to me that they were going to go somewhere with it, because Kaval was the one always on television. I guess we'll know in the coming weeks.
Buried is a term that is used quite a lot, and I joked about Desmond Wolfe earlier, and he is one of the few cases where I actually believed, this guy is getting buried. He goes from a main event program, to just getting crushed by everyone. Where as Kaval didn't start off that high, but is certainly being beaten lower. Into obliviocry, if you will.
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Post by Zaq "That Guy" Buzzkill on Dec 22, 2010 17:01:26 GMT -5
For those saying he was taken out immediately cause of his injury, it wasn't serious. The MRI revealed the injury wasn't serious and he wasn't expected to miss time. And those claiming it was an concussion due to his kick, Ziggler worked that week's smackdown after SS and every smackdown since then. He sounds healthy to me. I never said it was a concussion. What I said was that it was: 1) Reckless. 2) Full on. 3) Looked like it knocked Ziggler out. The last one could be seen as selling, if not for the fact that Kaval hit him full-on. It's the grace of luck that it wasn't a concussion inducing blow. It looked devastating because Ziggler is amazing at selling moves. He's on par with Jericho IMO.
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Post by Loser troll. Please ban me on Dec 22, 2010 17:05:14 GMT -5
When are you people gonna add Swagger, or Barret to the "who we wanna win, should win, and if he or she does not, they are buried," topic? Because had you taken the time to actually read any of the well thought out responses before trying to ham handedly geta rise out of people, you;d be able to answer your own question.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Dec 22, 2010 17:11:05 GMT -5
When are you people gonna add Swagger, or Barret to the "who we wanna win, should win, and if he or she does not, they are buried," topic? Hopefully no one will. Because Barrett has had a great year for a rookie, and main evented a few PPV's, and Swagger, while I'll admit he has had some of the weirdest bookings I've ever seen is hardly buried since he's still getting title shots and appearing on TV regularly.
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