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Post by Chronos on Jul 22, 2012 23:07:57 GMT -5
Be prepared for its length when you do get around to it, Koda. Even if you're quick a first playthrough can take 75-plus hours. Very long game, but also very worth it.
In other FES-related dealings, I fused my first-ever 4-element Ma-dyne level persona! (In P3 anyway, it's significantly easier to do in P4) And it's Ananta, of all things. Good thing Ananta got maybe the biggest super push from the original P3, he rules in FES as much as he sucks in the original P3 and in P4.
Mediarahan Dekunda Magarudyne Mabufudyne Power Charge Maragidyne Maziodyne
I used Uriel, Trumpeter, and Vishnu, all custom. I wanted Repel Dark instead of Power Charge (Uriel and Vishnu had both), but it took long enough just to get the 4 elements on him. It's easily replaced anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2012 23:29:53 GMT -5
Wish I could remember some of my best personae. I know I had a pretty awesome lightning-based Cybele in FES. I think my best one ended up being Shiva or something in P3P. Might have to fire up FES in a bit and check.
Started on Suikoden III. The beginning part to this one is probably my least favorite outside of IV. I like the Trinity Sight system but I hate that it forces you to walk through the same few dungeons over and over. I'm already dreading the Mountain Pass and I haven't gotten that far yet.
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Post by Chronos on Jul 23, 2012 0:20:34 GMT -5
I think that one of the reasons I'm going sort of fusion-crazy this playthrough is because during my P4 playthrough that got cut short last year, I realized I've got a hell of a lot more custom fused Personae on that game compared to FES, where a lot of them were just default Compendium carryovers from my original P3 transfer data.
I'm very pleased with what I've made on my current playthrough, even though it's bankrupted me several times over, haha. The angels especially; my new Uriel's very well-rounded offensively, Michael's a jack-of-all-trades and a master of all of them, and Trumpeter has Auto-Mataru and Maraku and Maragidyne, Mabufudyne, Maziodyne, and Garudyne. Oh, and I made a real physical bruiser of a Melchizedek with Victory Cry, Deathbound, Akasha Arts, Pralaya, and his heart item on top of it. Maybe I'll list the full skills/stats of all of them later on.
In terms of my absolute BEST Personae, they're probably the ones with the highest stats since most of them are loaded for bear skills-wise. So...Skadi, Lucifer, Kartikeya (even though his Dark weakness isn't covered), and Vishnu. Helel too, for Armageddon and overall versatility outside of that particular cheapness. They're not necessarily my favorites, though. Speaking of Cybele, I want to re-fuse mine because while her stats are great, she definitely needs a skill overhaul.
About Suikoden III, you nailed probably the game's biggest flaw in one. Traveling about the same places over and over and over...and over really grates, and you get Viki and her ability to teleport you far too late into the game. The Mountain Pass and North Cavern are the worst.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Jul 23, 2012 6:41:48 GMT -5
Oh I kinda know what I'm getting myself into with FES. I bought it when it came out back on the PS2 and played it for a while. Just never finished it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2012 8:33:46 GMT -5
Just remembered that FES was one of the handful of games that I played on the PS3 instead of PS2, so I'll have to dig out my old PS3 to check out my personae. It stopped playing PS3 games so it ended up as a $600 PS2. I know I didn't do a whole lot of customizing as most of the end-game personae are really good to begin with, but I did try on a couple.
I think I ended up with 100+ hours on my first run through FES, though a good chunk of that time could have easily been me falling asleep cause I was playing it so late.
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Post by Chronos on Jul 23, 2012 18:57:56 GMT -5
If I remember right... First vanilla P3 playthrough: 93 or 94 hours First FES playthrough: around 90 hours (I still have the save file from near the end, and it says 87:30) First P4 playthrough: 76 hours I pulled all-nighters often on them, especially P4. Now then! The Chronos Fusion Bonanza™ is go! Since the last fusion I did (Atavaka) took an hour and a goddamn half to finally get squared away, I've decided to call it a day on fusion for pretty much the rest of the playthrough except for making either a new Tri-Auto Raphael or a Tri-Auto Horus since they're both piss easy with what I've got. I'll list what I've made here, since I'm a bit proud of them! And I don't remember the recipes for some of them because I don't keep track of them when really wrapped up in fusion sprees, sorry. If a Persona is a different level than default, that's what I registered them at in the Compendium. {Spoiler}Alilat (w/heart item!) Susano-O x Helel x Attis st: 54, ma: 69, en: 64, ag: 54, lu: 75 Repels darkness, weak to all phys Regenerate 3 Makarakarn Mabufudyne Dekaja Samarecarm Mediarahan Repel Dark Maragidyne
Skadi Kartikeya x Susano-O x Vishnu st: 59, ma: 77 (!), en: 65, ag: 53, lu: 79 (!) Drains ice, repels darkness, weak to fire Mabufudyne Tetrakarn Ice Amp Bufudyne Auto-Mataru Mediarahan Pralaya Repel Dark
Gabriel w/heart item Melchizedek x Uriel x Kumbhanda st: 51, ma: 61, en: 45, ag: 49, lu: 58 Repels ice & light, weak to darkness Bufudyne Mahamaon Hama Boost Mediarahan Pralaya Auto-Mataru Auto-Masuku Victory Cry
Melchizedek lv.66 w/heart item st: 59, ma: 59, en: 52, ag: 48, lu: 45 Repels light & darkness, strong against strikes Mediarahan Auto-Mataru Victory Cry Akasha Arts Pralaya Deathbound Fist Master Repel Dark
Michael lv.75 st: 57, ma: 59, en: 51, ag: 56, lu: 61 Repels light and darkness, strong against ice and elec Maziodyne Mediarahan Auto-Mataru Apt Pupil Tempest Slash Pralaya Mabufudyne Repel Dark
Trumpeter lv.67 st: 48, ma: 58, en: 53, ag: 53, lu: 57 Nulls light, strong against ice, elec, and darkness, weak to fire Hamaon Mudoon Garudyne Auto-Mataru Auto-Maraku Maragidyne Maziodyne Mabufudyne
Atavaka Ananta x Michael x Bishamonten st: 60, ma: 61, en: 55, ag: 57, lu:65 Repels light and darkness, nulls pierce, weak to ice Mahamaon Megidola Auto-Mataru Repel Dark Mediarahan Maragidyne Maziodyne (Akasha Arts)
Ananta Uriel x Trumpeter x Vishnu st: 57, ma: 67, en: 69, ag: 51, lu: 62 Nulls light, strong against ice, weak to wind Mediarahan Dekunda Magarudyne Maragidyne Power Charge Mabufudyne Maziodyne (Weary Thrust)
Uriel Thor x Michael x Omoikane st: 45, ma: 55, en: 42, ag: 42, lu: 41 Drains fire, repels darkness, nulls light, weak to ice Mahamaon Maragidyne Deathbound Power Charge Repel Dark Magarudyne Auto-Mataru (Fire Amp) I'm a Pralaya fanboy, it's such a useful attack. I also have Auto-Mataru on nearly everything because I like to blitz through battles. Also, the "jack-of-all-trades" type of Persona is much more useful in P3 than P4, where it's better for various reasons to specialize your Personae.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2012 11:34:46 GMT -5
You aren't kidding about being a Pralaya fanboy, haha. Your personae are all a lot better than what I had, most likely. I'll dig out the old PS3 later today and see what I had, and post some of my favorites in P3P.
Wrapping up the chapter 2s in Suikoden III now. I figured out my real problem with having to walk everywhere - every single area is too damn big. That damn mountain pass takes much too long to walk over, and that's just to get from Caleria to LeBuque! There's not even a real world map to explore, just the point and click map - just program it so once you get through an area you can skip over it. Especially areas without treasure bosses like the Amur Plains or Zexen Forest.
I still like the Trinity Sight system though, but it kind of messes up the narrative a lot if you switch characters at the end of each chapter. I get that it's all happening concurrently, but there should be a better way to tell it at once. Maybe just forgoing the whole character selection in favor of switching automatically at certain points.
On the plus side I've met up with Lilly and she's awesome. One of my favorites in SIII, along with Cecile, Thomas, and the entirety of Geddoe's team.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2012 23:48:26 GMT -5
Got the PS3 out, here's the team I had on my latest pre-final boss save: {Spoiler} Sandalphon Null Strike, Repel Light ST66 MA67 EN65 AG64 LU62 Mahamaon Hama Boost Makarakarn Amrita High Counter Mediarahan Akasha Arts Regenerate 3 (Salvation)
Cybele Resist Fire, Resist Electric, Null Dark ST99 MA99 EN99 AG99 LU99 Samerecarm Auto-Maraku Myriad Arrows Thunder Reign Mediarahan Maziodyne Megidola Spell Master
Norn Weak to Electric, Drain Wind ST53 MA68 EN47 AG58 LU55 Magarudyne Wind Amp Panta Rhei Wind Boost Zan-ei Magarula Regenerate 3 Invigorate 3 (Absorb Elec)
Siegfried Null Slash, Resist Strike, Null Light, Weak to Dark ST99 MA59 EN99 AG91 LU99 Tempest Slash Power Charge Auto-Masuku Vicious Strike Apt Pupil High Counter Vorpal Blade Arms Master
Attis Resist Slash, Resist Strike, Resist Pierce, Weak to Light ST59 MA69 EN71 AG56 LU42 Recarmdra Ghastly Wail Megidola Revolution Rakunda Null Distress Samarecarm Repel Light (Enduring Soul)
Helel Resist Slash, Resist Strike, Resist Pierce, Weak to Ice, Null Light ST82 MA76 EN72 AG68 LU70 Primal Force Maragidyne Mind Charge Dodge Ice Myriad Arrows Vile Assault Morning Star Absorb Slash (Salvation)
Messiah Resist Fire, Resist Ice, Resist Electric, Resist Wind, Repel Light, Weak to Dark Heart Item ST74 MA85 EN75 AG74 LU75 Megidolaon Regenerate 3 God's Hand Die for Me! Mamudoon Salvation Invigorate 3 Absorb Pierce (Enduring Soul)
Satan Repel Fire, Weak to Wind, Repel Dark ST64 MA72 EN66 AG59 LU72 Megidola Maragidyne Mahamaon High Counter Fire Amp Regenerate 3 Invigorate 3 Repel Light (Black Viper)
Metatron Resist Strike, Repel Light, Weak to Dark ST77 MA98 EN69 AG78 LU82 Mahamaon God's Hand Repel Dark Mediarahan Megidolaon Repel Ice Repel Elec Repel Fire
I also have an Orpheus Telos that's a bit of a mess: Resist All ST79 MA94 EN74 AG79 LU89 Akasha Arts Wind Boost Dodge Ice High Counter Maragidyne Sharp Student Unshaken Will Megidolaon (Victory Cry)
Not sure what I was going for with that Orpheus Telos.
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Post by Chronos on Jul 28, 2012 14:48:43 GMT -5
Maybe you mistook your Orpheus Telos for Asura, haha. It looks that way, with so many of his skills making it. Truth be told I've never actually fused Telos, I haven't been lucky enough to max all the social links in one go in P3 yet. And you shouldn't sell your Personae short, that Cybele is as awesome as you said. Siegfried and Metatron are fantastic too, and you've got a good all-around team covering for each other. Looks very nice! Cybele and Siegfried are going to cost a ton even on Normal to summon on a next playthrough, though. I don't really try to get my Personae up to 99 in all stats, though I'll sometimes use a few cards (and less now than I used to). Mainly because I'm a lazy bastard with that haha, but another reason is because I like seeing the unique stat spreads. It adds to the uniqueness and "character" of each Persona, in my opinion. I know what I said last time, but I did some more fusion to officially cap off this playthrough (I'm in December now). Three Personae this time; one of them is a beast, while the other two turned out as sort of two sides of the same coin. {Spoiler}Chi You lv.91 w/heart item st: 84, ma: 77, en: 83, ag: 69, lu: 84 Strong against slash/pierce, weak to elec Vorpal Blade Auto-Mataru Pralaya Herculean Strike Akasha Arts Victory Cry Primal Force Absorb Strike
Saturnus x Satan x Kumbhanda, yet none of their stats are THAT high so I'm not sure how it happened.
Garuda lv.69 st: 57, ma: 56, en: 46, ag: 59, lu: 62 Repels light, strong against slash/strike/wind, weak to elec/darkness Magarudyne Mediarama Arrow Rain Absorb Fire Pralaya Akasha Arts Repel Dark Amrita
More geared toward healing, and a case where I actually didn't want Pralaya for a change (I wanted Absorb Elec and Mediarahan). It just tacked itself on. I really wanted to fuse a Garuda because his attack animations are some of my favorites.
Scathach lv.70 st: 59, ma: 73, en: 41, ag: 56, lu: 54 Strong against pierce/ice/wind/light, weak to fire Myriad Arrows Mabufudyne Absorb Fire Pralaya Arms Master Akasha Arts Repel Dark Magarudyne
More geared toward resistance and damage, and also replacing the old yet still good Scathach I had in the Compendium. I used Garuda in her fusion, and it shows. I also had to level Garuda up and learn Repel Wind so that Arrow Rain wouldn't transfer.
Oh, and my new Tri-Auto Persona:
Horus lv.70 st: 53, ma: 58, en: 40, ag: 54, lu: 50 Nulls ice/light, weak to darkness Mahamaon Mediarahan Auto-Mataru Mabufudyne Auto-Maraku Morning Star Auto-Masuku Repel Dark
Better than the all-over-the-place Raphael I have, and I got to upgrade his naturally learned Bufudyne to Mabufudyne to boot. Also something I wanted to ask our forum Megatennists: do you have any particular fusion quirks or preferences? One of my biggest, for example, is that whenever possible I like to have Mediarahan on Thor, as a Nocturne nod. Thor's one of the worse higher-tier demons in Nocturne (weak to nerve/mind?!), but his innate Mediarahan saved my ass a lot while I was running around the upper floors of the Tower of Kagutsuchi with Riberama on. It's all fun and games until 8 Aciels in a row show up...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2012 16:58:23 GMT -5
The problem with Telos is that he can learn pretty much anything, maybe in fact everything but I'm not 100% sure on that. He's really only necessary for the special fight in Monad due to his range of skills available, resisting everything and absorbing/nullifying nothing, which sets off a one-hit kill move.
I always like to have an electric-based Cybele, but given that she's not in many of the games it doesn't work out too well usually.
Aside from that I usually try to make the lower level demons last a lot longer than they should have any right to by giving them a great skill set-up. I had an all-element Ma-dyne Hathor in Strange Journey that just couldn't keep up with the damage being dealt but damned if I didn't try to keep her around.
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Post by Chronos on Jul 28, 2012 20:19:52 GMT -5
Looked up Telos on the Megaten Wiki and it says his inheritance type is "All," so yeah, he probably can learn everything. I'm not sure I've beaten the P3 superboss, either. I've at least tried a few times, though it's been awhile. But I remember getting wiped out at the beginning of the fight, seeing the Persona I had equipped and realizing the pattern, remembering the horror of the Demi-fiend battle, and canceling without looking back. I know that by the design of the game P3's boss is easier, but I think I've been traumatized by the Demi-fiend, hahaha. Did you tweak your Electricybele setup a little in P4, where she's weak to elec? Megaten laughs at players enough without having players weakness hit themselves. And I remember you telling me about your great Hathor in Strange Journey, that game's really conducive to keeping lower-level demons around with great skills thanks to Demon Sources. I've hilariously got a Sandman with Mediarama and Recovery Boost there that served as a good auxiliary healer all two times he could use it. I wonder what stuff got left in Suikoden III or not "followed up on," so to speak, due to Maruyama's departure. The game doesn't feel unfinished or disjointed like IV sometimes does, but some things can make you wonder. Why Karaya Village is still accessible after Chapter 1, for example. The Trinity Sight System can be jarring too, I agree, but I think they handled it the best they could for taking such an approach to the storytelling. This type of storytelling admittedly does work better in books and film than games, though.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2012 21:52:22 GMT -5
I've never even tried to fight Lizzy or the Demi-Fiend, got too scared just reading battle strategies haha.
I'm not sure if Cybele can do electric attacks in P4, as I have her set up a bit differently. I might have just given up trying:
ST50 MA57 EN45 AG47 LU48 Mediarahan Vicious Strike Samarecarm Ice Break Bufudyne Hamaon Agidyne Myriad Arrows
Still good but not as specialized as in P3. Some of the persona changes in P4 really screwed up ones I liked.
The only problem with the low-level demons in Strange Journey is they can't level up quick enough to keep using. I guess it'd be possible to grind away until they're at an acceptable level, but at that point it'd be easier just to use a new demon. Of course they are nice to have around if they have a good healing skill like your Sandman, even if it's just to heal up after battles so you save MP on your main demons.
I don't think too much if anything got left out of SIII, at least storywise. I think maybe Karaya Village was supposed to be rebuilt, or at least re-shopped like some of the burned-out cities in SII. And perhaps the HQ was supposed to get fixed up a bit more than it ends up at the end of the game. Some of the story does seem a little rushed, especially the closing chapters.
SIII was maybe a little too ambitious with the Trinity Sight, though I really appreciate the effort. I think maybe if you didn't have to repeat so many areas it'd work better, since it wouldn't be as tedious. With the story they were trying to tell I don't know if a different system would be a better choice. And at the very least they tried something new. A lot of Geddoe's running around seems unnecessary, which is a shame because I like his group the best.
I really wish that IV hadn't gone back in time. That was the worst part of the game for me, since it meant that there were few connections to the established world of Suikoden. SII and SIII started to build up a story conclusion, with the Holy Kingdom of Harmonia looming in the background, Yuber with his own agenda, the visions of the future shown in SIII, and the general futures of the new republics of Toran and around Lake Dunan, along with the uneasy relationship between Zexen and the Grasslands. It really felt like the story was going somewhere, and then bam, 150 years in the past, none of that crap matters, Yuber's non-existant, your True Rune sucks, and the Island Nations are too far apart and too sparsely populated. And now we'll likely never know the rest of the True Runes, what the hell was up with Yuber and Pesmerga (since Yuber at least seemed to be really important), what was going to happen with the True Runes after SIII, what was going on in Harmonia, and how it all tied together. And don't get me started on the infinite worlds concept.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2012 13:09:52 GMT -5
Finished Suikoden III.
I forgot how hard the last boss could be, especially when you take physical fighters who don't have the best MDF. As an aside, I hate how it's constantly listed as the Wind Rincar. It's obviously the True Wind Rune Incarnation, and even in the name during the battle it's RIncar.
Anyway, it wiped me out twice, so I went back to HQ, raised my Magic Resistance skill, and threw in Sasarai for his True Earth rune and Canopy Defense. My party was set up with:
Hugo & Sasarai Futch & Sharon Emily & Yumi
Hugo, Futch, Sharon, and Emily handled most of the attacking, with Futch & Sharon's combo being enough to take down some of the rune orbs in one hit. Sasarai was there for Canopy Defense and healing with a Flowing Rune, which Sharon also had in case of an emergency. I was going to use Yumi as a mage but I didn't feel like grinding for skill points so she just attacked most of the time.
I think I like the game more for what it tried to accomplish than what it did accomplish. The story system was interesting but created a lot of backtracking and monotony, and the last two chapters seem rushed. Still, it continued the story of the first two games and set the stage for future games. Of course, none of the possibilities hinted at were ever used by Konami for a sequel. But hey, as long as we get terrible spin-offs, right?
I didn't like the battle system that much, since the fast-paced style of the first two games worked so well. I'm glad they went back to that in SV.
Up next is Suikoden IV. Still undecided on Tactics.
The one thing I dislike about playing Suikoden is the lack of Suikoden VI. Each time I play the games I start looking for any news about it, even though I know there isn't any.
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Post by Chronos on Aug 8, 2012 12:20:27 GMT -5
edit: Again, sorry for the long post.
Haven't been on so much due to the Olympics and Megaten dominating my time, along with helping out a friend with some stuff. I took Akihiko, Aigis, and JOONPEY KOON to the promised land on FES and finished P4 in style with Yosuke, Kanji, Yukiko, and probably my luckiest-ever playthrough of the game with regards to equipment and chest keys (25 keys left over going into Yomotsu Hirasaka! Six Huge Fish and FOUR Guardians going into December, even after trading for the Haikara Shirt!).
So now I'm gonna play DDS again! For the first time since 2008, apparently! And I wanted to punch myself because my save was abandoned right in the middle of Coordinate 136 for some reason! So I finished it up and now am going to give the duology a proper go-round. I dunno how much else I'll do after DDS, I think Persona 3 and 4 have almost totally burned me out on fusion for a while.
Suikoden talking time. I'm glad to see someone else shares the pet peeve of all the guides/discussion/etc. calling them the "Fire Rincar" and "Wind Rincar." Space issues, people, it's obviously "RIncar" since they couldn't fit "Fire/Wind Rune Incarnation" in the teeny enemy name list. Speaking of the Wind Rinca
My party for the Wind Rune Incarnation is usually Hugo/Fubar, Chris/Nei, and Geddoe/Emily. It used to be Geddoe/Sasarai, but put a Flowing Rune on Nei and she's a great healer when you're not using the Jongleur Rune. Chris, with her True Water Rune and natural B+ in Water Magic, can also help with healing if necessary. Nei's utterly fantastic but requires an ungodly amount of skill points to get up to snuff, that's where the infinite battles in Chris' chapter 2 come in. Also, I always have much more trouble with the Yuber and Sarah battles than the actual final boss. They're annoying and tough, that deadliest of combos.
I put III as the representative of the Suikoden series in my Best Games list over in Forum Games, but the game does have its frayed edges. They've been pointed out very well too, nicely done. But...I love the Grasslands, a lot. Despite the rather rash and stubborn nature of the Lizards and Karayans and the near-constant precipice on which their independence stands, the Grasslands just seem like such a warm and inviting place to live. I'd probably want to live there if I were a resident in the Suikoden world. (Falena's out as I don't get along so well with boats.)
It's also a great representation of broadly different cultures across the Six Clans, as the reclusive and spiritual Alma Kinan are as night and day to the pacifistic, quietly determined Chisha as they are to the brash, battle-ready Lizards yet all the clans are tied together by the desire to help each other out and protect their home and each other when it counts. One thing I would've really liked to see is some development for the Safir Clan before their fall during Harmonia's invasion, as they're mentioned but may as well not exist since you don't see even a single member in-game.
From a gameplay perspective, the buddy system does two really great things with mounted pairings and having Kindness Drops heal two people at once instead of just one, haha. It does slow things down quite a bit compared to the first two and V, though. And while more realistic I guess, the decision to have almost all AoE magic hit foes AND allies was a bad one all around. Having to intentionally gimp your magic options like that should never have to be done and what's more, it makes the type of magic most central to the game's story almost totally useless.
I would've liked for Harmonia to at least have SOME presence in SIV. I mean, just a little vague confirmation that they were still the dark hand guiding things even back then would've been nice, as I'm sure Hikusaak's directive applied then as well. I think Harmonia's almost 500 years old by the time of III, so it wouldn't be unfeasible or anything.
And I think everyone who plays Suikoden longs for a Suikoden VI whenever they even think about the series. I know I do.
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Fundertaker
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Post by Fundertaker on Aug 8, 2012 15:15:41 GMT -5
Isn't it more or less mentioned somewhere that Graham Cray is/was in dealing with Harmonia somewhere during the story/before the story? Like wanting to trade the Punishment Rune for whatever? Or am I off on that one?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2012 0:44:34 GMT -5
JOONPEY KOON DEFEATED THE ENEMY! Great, thanks for telling me Fuuka, it's not like I just SAW HIM DO IT. My Persona parties always end up the same - Main character, Yukari, Junpei, Mitsuru for P3, and Chie, Yukiko, and Brosuke for P4. Digital Devil Saga is my favorite of the SMT franchise, just beating out Devil Summoner and Devil Survivor. I really should replay the two games some time, but I got burned out on SMT so I'm taking some time off from it. The Sarah fight was the worst for me. The first time I fought her I didn't even get a good attack in on anything, as she and her party destroyed me with magic in one round. So I reload, upgrade my skills, get better armor, a couple Jizos to be safe, and then the second time I fight her she barely uses magic at all. I never used Fire magic at all in SIII, beyond whatever spells the runes had that didn't hit everyone. It doesn't help that outside of Geddoe the main characters aren't that great at magic. Chris does fine with water I guess but even with her own party there are better options for using it, and Hugo is a lot better attacking with his high Swing skill and good physical damage. The Grasslands were an awesome location for the game. I don't really like the increasingly bizarre demi-human groups that keep popping up but at least in SIII they were distinct and not annoying. Each area felt different too - the wide open area of Karaya, the watery Duck Clan, the Lizards living inside of a cave, Chisha in a quiet valley area, Alma Kinan deep in Kuput forest, and even Le Buque just kind of hanging there. I'm playing SIV and each place lacks character, beyond the Nay-Kobold settlement, which only has character in that nearly everyone there is a cat. Too many gray color schemes in SIV. The problem with Harmonia being involved in SIV is how far away they are from the Island Nations. If I'm not mistaken, Dunan, Toran Republic, and Kooluk sit between Harmonia and the Island Nations. Which aren't even really nations, as each "nation" is basically a small city on a small rock that is at best weeks away from any other inhabitable island. If I were Hikusaak I'd give up on the Rune of Punishment after aimlessly sailing around for hours on end with no land in sight. I hate sailing. Suikoden IV has always seemed half-finished to me. Like they had all these neat ideas they wanted to do with the game and couldn't cram them all in before it was released, so they just rushed everything. Like the stuff with the mermaids being captured. There's only five of them and apparently they live on the deserted island even though you find them all over the ocean. It would have been nice to see a mermaid nation or even have a big subplot involving them beyond Dario yelling about it constantly. Or all the events with the elf settlement, which get resolved in no time at all. Fundertaker - I think he mentioned it one cutscene but beyond that there wasn't really much involvement with Harmonia.
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Post by El Cokehead del Knife Fight on Aug 9, 2012 1:02:43 GMT -5
Honestly, I would have at least had some representatives of Harmonia in it as antagonists. Like, have them hunting down the Rune of Punishment and you fight them before the final boss. On that note, the final boss. {Spoiler} What the actual hell. There is some fluff stuff if you look around which sets up the goddamned tree but it still comes right the f*** out of nowhere. It's comparable to Suikoden 1 where Barbarossa turns into the dragon using the sovereign rune. But that gets a pass because it's much older and RPG's of the time did have different standards of storytelling.
Think about it; II built up the Beast Rune throughout the game, III explicitly states that sindar ruins are dangerous places and V does the same thing. That reminds me of another criticism that I have of IV. No secondary antagonist. There is Troy but he's a non-factor for 90% of the game. This was a game that really needed a Yuber/Childerich/Dolph or any other character along those lines. A final criticism is that the story seems really rushed. I blame this on the whole island hopping stuff so there aren't enough locations for stuff to be happening but still, what the hell. It honestly feels so much shorter then II, III or V. The fact that it needed a gaiden game to flesh it out completely bugs me. Yes, Suikoden II had the Suikogaiden games but the game is still perfectly standalone. To sum it up; IV is too short, not fleshed out enough and I don't like it. It's an average RPG in a series that had been very good up until then.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2012 7:38:46 GMT -5
It would have been better if you were going up against a True Rune user in Suikoden IV, as that's where the other bosses came from. Yeah, the dragon in Suikoden was weird but whatever, Sovereign Rune magic blah blah blah. Suikoden II had the Beast Rune, Suikoden III had the True Wind Rune, Suikoden V had the Sun Rune, so each one is believable as a crazy end-game boss monster. Cray has a tree.
That's where Harmonia lurking in the background would have cool, as they would presumably have a few True Runes at that point in time. At the very least, the Circle Rune, Beast Rune, True Earth, and True Wind, plus possibly the True Water, True Fire, and Hachifusa if they would have gotten Yuber involved. Or hell, just add another one, there's still nine that are unknown and it's not too much of an assumption that Harmonia would have one more of them.
I hated how little importance Troy had to the story. Especially since at the beginning, when you're just becoming knights in Razril, Glen's big speech is about how he got his ass kicked by Troy and now you all have to beat Troy because Glen looked ridiculous losing to some guy that's half his age.
The lack of locations was terrible. There are no places to go and this massive ocean you get to explore is basically empty. And it looks like only Obel and Razril even have military power so I'm not sure how Kooluk could possibly fail to conquer them all. Especially with how easily Obel goes down. I guess there's the Nest of Pirates too, but then you look at them and one of the ships is captained by Dario and a 12-year old.
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Post by El Cokehead del Knife Fight on Aug 9, 2012 8:17:26 GMT -5
Even worse is the lack of build to said tree. Like I said just before, it comes right the f*** out of nowhere. Suikoden II was always building towards future confrontations. The entire first half establishes the stakes of the war and how dangerous Luca is so the 18 vs 1 fight feels like a huge thing. While this is going on, the Beast rune has been important with the citizens of Muse being sacrificed to it as well as the Golden Wolves.
Or in III where you routinely get your asses kicked by Luc, Sarah and Yuber. The first time that you're able to take Yuber without extreme luck or cheesing is in the third chapter for Chris and even then you've just gotten Yumi and Yuiri in your party so you have two characters with upgraded runes against him.
Then look at IV where they tried a similar thing with Troy what with him easily beating Glenn in the past. Thing is, you encounter Troy twice in the entire game. Once after you're exiled from Razril and at the very end. You never get to even fight him or even encounter him on the battlefield between these points. Being able to drive him off in a naval battle should have been an awesome moment in the game but that's sadly neglected.
Which also brings me back to the point about the lack of Harmonia involvement. There should have been an outside force that was driving the conflict or a third party that was fulfilling its own interests at the same time. The Howling Voice Guild was around by this point, throw a couple of their agents at you during the game who are trying to retrieve the Rune of Punishment. Or better yet, have them hunting Ted as opposed to the Fog Ship.
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Fundertaker
Vegeta
Hideo Kojima should direct every ending ever!
Posts: 9,158
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Post by Fundertaker on Aug 9, 2012 11:35:03 GMT -5
Well, the fog ship part was necessary since it closes Ted's story (that was the only part of his story that was still to be told/explained) and if someone would be going after Ted at that point in time is Windy (with Neclord and Yuber), not Harmonia itself. And considering that the fog ship is essencially in another dimension, yeah good luck tracking him down. Quite frankly I see it as Harmonia not really caring about this "incident" at all. The Island Nations weren't powerhouses and Kooluk was rotting from the inside way before it happened (as explained in Tactics), besides they are both too far for a direct intervention that they could reap something from, so the Rune Of Punishment was the only thing they could go after. And considering the nature of the beast, I would say that it is quite low on their "to get" list. I mean, even though the Beast Rune itself chose L'Renouille Castle as its host, the way things are, it's not like Harmonia gave two craps about it. Considering the attachment the Rune Of Punishment has with its hosts, I doubt they would give two craps about it too.
I am, however, intrigued by the lack of mention to Chieppo's merchant company in Suikoden V :S
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