saneiac
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 3,935
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Post by saneiac on Dec 26, 2011 3:39:03 GMT -5
Dusty Rhodes Bret Hart CM Punk Randy Savage The Rock
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Post by norsisclouds on Dec 26, 2011 4:00:05 GMT -5
Trish Stratus- overrated, really wasn't that great in the ring--go back and watch her old matches, she was carried most of the time
Gail Kim- overrated, but a lot of skill--I mostly dislike her because she has no personality--I don't viscerally hate her though and I do enjoy watching her matches but I just don't like her like her...
The Miz- boring wrestling style, embarrassing on the mic, cannot get into him at all and just annoys me
AJ Lee- I get it. You want to have sex with her even though she looks like she's 15. She's not as spectacular in the ring as people make her out to be--she can be phenomenal, given time, but she still needs a lot more time in the ring to make her offense look believable. I think I could be a big supporter of hers in a year from now if she's booked properly but I wouldn't cry myself to sleep at night if she got released.
Kaitlyn- she's not great in the ring and I dont' find her attractive. I don't get the appeal at all.
Layla- she's pretty I guess--but she's nothing extraordinary. She looks like a lot of girls I knew growing up--and not that they weren't pretty either, I just dont' find her impressive. Pretty, but very normal. Not charismatic enough for me to care, her voice is annoying and her wrestling is just OK.
I'll probably think of more later.
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Post by Cam on Dec 26, 2011 4:36:25 GMT -5
Shawn Micheals. Don't get me wrong, he's a talented wrestler. My problem is the people that say he's the greatest of all time. To me HBK isn't a top 10 talent, or even top 25. At best he's a top 50, and that's stretching it. He can deliver in the ring, with the right opponent, but I can't think of anyone he really carried. Notice that most of his most remembered matches are against guys known for carrying people, names like, Bret Hart, Triple H, Undertaker, Foley, Bulldog, and others. HBK is the most overrated wrestler of all time. Good at some things, but never great at anything. One of the most ludicrous posts I've ever seen. Ever. Are you honestly, seriously, trying to suggest that The Undertaker carried Shawn Michaels? To say he's not the best of all the time, fair enough. To say him being Top 50 is stretching it is just ridiculous.
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Post by Cam on Dec 26, 2011 4:39:22 GMT -5
Agreed, especially when it comes to his second run. The new gimmick was only interesting for all of one storyline, afterward I just found him extremely boring. I'll admit he's a good talent, but he's never oozed the charisma and entertaining personality that people swear that he has. At least, not for me. I didn't care when he left, and I won't care when he comes back. I'll add Edge, too. He's good in the ring, but as far as I'm concerned, he peaked in 2006 and just got progressively more uninteresting and stale from there. I don't dislike him, but I've never gotten what all the hype was about. I remember Jake Roberts mentioning in a shoot that he doesn't see much in Jericho or something to that effect(I believe that was during the WCW days). I always found that interesting. Jake also criticized Jericho not to long ago. "I think that Jericho is very overrated...I think Jericho has been given the largest push by the WWE (just short of Hogan), and he has yet to get over." He went on to say that, at times, he does not look to be "on his game," and that you put him in the ring with certain people & he looks to be "a step off.." And this is coming from somebody who knows and understands the business. This is also pretty ludicrous, implying that Jake Roberts understands the business but Chris Jericho doesn't. Chris Jericho is 10x the worker Jake Roberts ever was or ever could have hoped to have been. Jake was amazing on the mic, and had great ring psychology. He played his character to a tee. In the ring, he was mediocre. Probably the reason he was never a main eventer. I'd struggle to name a great Jake Roberts match, I could name 10 great Jericho matches off the top of my head.
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Post by BatPunk on Dec 26, 2011 4:41:52 GMT -5
Chris Jericho - I just find him terribly over-rated. Not saying he's not good, he's just not he god he's portrayed as.
The Rock - He really bores/d me. I tended to forward through his promo's as all they seemed to do was degrade everyone he came in contact with and putting himself over. Which I don't believe is good for wrestling.
Chris Hero - I just don't get it.
Sting - Much like Jericho. I think he's a great talent, but I don't think he's the be all and end all.
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Post by Paul Is Deadpool R.I.P on Dec 26, 2011 6:33:40 GMT -5
Shawn Micheals. Don't get me wrong, he's a talented wrestler. My problem is the people that say he's the greatest of all time. To me HBK isn't a top 10 talent, or even top 25. At best he's a top 50, and that's stretching it. He can deliver in the ring, with the right opponent, but I can't think of anyone he really carried. Notice that most of his most remembered matches are against guys known for carrying people, names like, Bret Hart, Triple H, Undertaker, Foley, Bulldog, and others. HBK is the most overrated wrestler of all time. Good at some things, but never great at anything. One of the most ludicrous posts I've ever seen. Ever. Are you honestly, seriously, trying to suggest that The Undertaker carried Shawn Michaels? To say he's not the best of all the time, fair enough. To say him being Top 50 is stretching it is just ridiculous. I never said that HBK was carried by anyone. All I was saying that if you look at his matches that are considered classics they're with talent that are known carriers. Look at his matches with Umaga, Khali, Batista. He couldn't carry them. Who did? Cena. HBK could look good against Big Men, because really it's a simple story to tell, and even a mediocre big man can sell that story. And with the exceptions on Vader, Khali and Umage, HBK usually had Big man/little man matches. However, he is nowhere near as good as people, including the IWC and even the WWE themselves, paint him to be.
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Post by Cam on Dec 26, 2011 7:52:28 GMT -5
One of the most ludicrous posts I've ever seen. Ever. Are you honestly, seriously, trying to suggest that The Undertaker carried Shawn Michaels? To say he's not the best of all the time, fair enough. To say him being Top 50 is stretching it is just ridiculous. I never said that HBK was carried by anyone. All I was saying that if you look at his matches that are considered classics they're with talent that are known carriers. Look at his matches with Umaga, Khali, Batista. He couldn't carry them. Who did? Cena. HBK could look good against Big Men, because really it's a simple story to tell, and even a mediocre big man can sell that story. And with the exceptions on Vader, Khali and Umage, HBK usually had Big man/little man matches. However, he is nowhere near as good as people, including the IWC and even the WWE themselves, paint him to be. Then why bother bringing up the fact all his classic matches were fought with people you consider "carriers"? If you're not implying he was carried, then that's irrelevant. Most people would say HBK is a carrier himself. HBK/Batista matches were decent. HBK never really had any notable matches with Umaga or Khali. Maybe a forgettable Raw match each. Cena and Batista were more compatible. HBK has had a ton of great matches without them being big man vs little man matches. Infact, most of them aren't.
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Post by repomanfan on Dec 26, 2011 10:32:20 GMT -5
I remember Jake Roberts mentioning in a shoot that he doesn't see much in Jericho or something to that effect(I believe that was during the WCW days). I always found that interesting. Jake also criticized Jericho not to long ago. "I think that Jericho is very overrated...I think Jericho has been given the largest push by the WWE (just short of Hogan), and he has yet to get over." He went on to say that, at times, he does not look to be "on his game," and that you put him in the ring with certain people & he looks to be "a step off.." And this is coming from somebody who knows and understands the business. This is also pretty ludicrous, implying that Jake Roberts understands the business but Chris Jericho doesn't. Chris Jericho is 10x the worker Jake Roberts ever was or ever could have hoped to have been. Jake was amazing on the mic, and had great ring psychology. He played his character to a tee. In the ring, he was mediocre. Probably the reason he was never a main eventer. I'd struggle to name a great Jake Roberts match, I could name 10 great Jericho matches off the top of my head. LOL@ Jericho being 10 times the worker Jake ever was. I think you put that in reverse. If you actually understood anything about wrestling you would know that Jake was not a mediocre worker in the ring; hence the whole psychology part. He was Jake "the Snake" Roberts. How ridiculous would it look if he went out there and started doing karate kicks, or RVD style moves. His whole shtick was slow, devious, slimy, cunning, manipulative etc....And he played it. Jericho on the other hand is all moves and zero psychology. "Worker" not "performer. Try to understand the difference.
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Post by TheMediocreWarrior on Dec 26, 2011 10:42:42 GMT -5
CM Punk: The most overrated wrestler since The Rock. He's really nothing special, his 3 matches with Joe in ROH were extremely boring. I don't like his attitude either, he's way up his own ass. I have a feeling that attitude is pretty common in pro-wrestling. I think even the more modest wrestlers still might have bigger egos than average. I really can't think of anyone I dislike that isn't an obvious choice (Buff Bagwell). I don't like Bret as much as I used to. I know I just said that the arrogant attitude is something you have to put aside, but Bret being such a mark for himself gets annoying in "Wrestling with Shadows".
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Post by Cam on Dec 26, 2011 11:36:27 GMT -5
This is also pretty ludicrous, implying that Jake Roberts understands the business but Chris Jericho doesn't. Chris Jericho is 10x the worker Jake Roberts ever was or ever could have hoped to have been. Jake was amazing on the mic, and had great ring psychology. He played his character to a tee. In the ring, he was mediocre. Probably the reason he was never a main eventer. I'd struggle to name a great Jake Roberts match, I could name 10 great Jericho matches off the top of my head. LOL@ Jericho being 10 times the worker Jake ever was. I think you put that in reverse. If you actually understood anything about wrestling you would know that Jake was not a mediocre worker in the ring; hence the whole psychology part. He was Jake "the Snake" Roberts. How ridiculous would it look if he went out there and started doing karate kicks, or RVD style moves. His whole shtick was slow, devious, slimy, cunning, manipulative etc....And he played it. Jericho on the other hand is all moves and zero psychology. "Worker" not "performer. Try to understand the difference. Since when does Jericho do karate kicks or RVD style moves? Being a "Snake" doesn't mean you can't have a great match. Look at Randy Orton. He's "The Viper" but he's still had several great matches in 2011 alone. I'm hard pressed to think of any great Jake Roberts match. Care to unload this secret treasure chest of classic Jake matches you seem to know of? And don't try and patronise me. It makes you sound like an ass.
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Arrow
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,122
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Post by Arrow on Dec 26, 2011 11:49:12 GMT -5
I can't really say much for Jake Roberts, as he was way before my time, but I'd struggle to name a single Chris Jericho match that would make my top ten, to be quite honest. He's a good talent, certainly, but the "best in the world at what he does"? I personally don't think so.
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Post by Cam on Dec 26, 2011 11:55:03 GMT -5
I can't really say much for Jake Roberts, as he was way before my time, but I'd struggle to name a single Chris Jericho match that would make my top ten, to be quite honest. He's a good talent, certainly, but the "best in the world at what he does"? I personally don't think so. Like I said, that's understandable. Saying Chris Jericho doesn't know what he's doing, or doesn't have any in-ring psychology and that Jake Roberts is better in the ring is a whole different ball game.
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Dec 26, 2011 12:22:47 GMT -5
And don't try and patronise me. It makes you sound like an ass. Well, it could be argued that calling someone's opinion ludicrous, especially without really giving anything but a few vague statements to back it up, makes one sound like an ass as well.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Dec 26, 2011 12:31:23 GMT -5
Jericho the Rock Austin
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Post by baronmordo on Dec 26, 2011 12:52:46 GMT -5
Okay, if you really think Jericho is all moves and no psychology, I'm just going to conclude that you've never actually seen him work.
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Post by repomanfan on Dec 26, 2011 12:53:58 GMT -5
LOL@ Jericho being 10 times the worker Jake ever was. I think you put that in reverse. If you actually understood anything about wrestling you would know that Jake was not a mediocre worker in the ring; hence the whole psychology part. He was Jake "the Snake" Roberts. How ridiculous would it look if he went out there and started doing karate kicks, or RVD style moves. His whole shtick was slow, devious, slimy, cunning, manipulative etc....And he played it. Jericho on the other hand is all moves and zero psychology. "Worker" not "performer. Try to understand the difference. Since when does Jericho do karate kicks or RVD style moves? Being a "Snake" doesn't mean you can't have a great match. Look at Randy Orton. He's "The Viper" but he's still had several great matches in 2011 alone. I'm hard pressed to think of any great Jake Roberts match. Care to unload this secret treasure chest of classic Jake matches you seem to know of? And don't try and patronise me. It makes you sound like an ass. I never said Jericho does karate RVD style kicks. There is no way Jericho is a better worker than Roberts. Jake comes from a different school of wrestling, back when things weren't all cookie cutter and planned out ahead of time. Jericho has better and flashier moves, Jake takes him in every other department. Check out Jake's work with Garvin, Steamboat, Dibiase. He had some great matches that weren't rehearsed in the locker room, two weeks ahead of time. Like I said I have nothing against Jericho. I think he's good(far from great). I just found it interesting that Jake criticized him during the WCW days as well as his WWF career.
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Post by Cam on Dec 27, 2011 0:42:56 GMT -5
Since when does Jericho do karate kicks or RVD style moves? Being a "Snake" doesn't mean you can't have a great match. Look at Randy Orton. He's "The Viper" but he's still had several great matches in 2011 alone. I'm hard pressed to think of any great Jake Roberts match. Care to unload this secret treasure chest of classic Jake matches you seem to know of? And don't try and patronise me. It makes you sound like an ass. I never said Jericho does karate RVD style kicks. There is no way Jericho is a better worker than Roberts. Jake comes from a different school of wrestling, back when things weren't all cookie cutter and planned out ahead of time. Jericho has better and flashier moves, Jake takes him in every other department. Check out Jake's work with Garvin, Steamboat, Dibiase. He had some great matches that weren't rehearsed in the locker room, two weeks ahead of time. Like I said I have nothing against Jericho. I think he's good(far from great). I just found it interesting that Jake criticized him during the WCW days as well as his WWF career. Being in the business longer or being from a different/earlier era doesn't make you better. That's like saying Damien Demento is better than John Cena. Most veterans like Jericho do call their matches in the ring and don't plan them ahead of time unless there is a major spot. You can see Jericho calling his matches in the ring all the time. It's one thing he's not very good at (hiding his calling). If you're taking veterans' opinions into consideration, Jericho is considered one of the top workers of all time. There's only a few old school guys who I've seen badmouth Jericho (Kevin Von Erich and Larry Zbyszko, who is just bitter about the Living Legend thing). I don't have anything against Jake Roberts. But there is no way you can say he's had more great matches than Chris Jericho, or that Jericho doesn't have in-ring psychology.
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Post by repomanfan on Dec 27, 2011 1:03:23 GMT -5
I never said Jericho does karate RVD style kicks. There is no way Jericho is a better worker than Roberts. Jake comes from a different school of wrestling, back when things weren't all cookie cutter and planned out ahead of time. Jericho has better and flashier moves, Jake takes him in every other department. Check out Jake's work with Garvin, Steamboat, Dibiase. He had some great matches that weren't rehearsed in the locker room, two weeks ahead of time. Like I said I have nothing against Jericho. I think he's good(far from great). I just found it interesting that Jake criticized him during the WCW days as well as his WWF career. Being in the business longer or being from a different/earlier era doesn't make you better. That's like saying Damien Demento is better than John Cena. Most veterans like Jericho do call their matches in the ring and don't plan them ahead of time unless there is a major spot. You can see Jericho calling his matches in the ring all the time. It's one thing he's not very good at (hiding his calling). If you're taking veterans' opinions into consideration, Jericho is considered one of the top workers of all time. There's only a few old school guys who I've seen badmouth Jericho (Kevin Von Erich and Larry Zbyszko, who is just bitter about the Living Legend thing). I don't have anything against Jake Roberts. But there is no way you can say he's had more great matches than Chris Jericho, or that Jericho doesn't have in-ring psychology. I never said Jericho doesn't have psychology, that's all Jake. I just think Roberts is the better overall worker. And if Jericho doesn't plan out his matches, that's great, I hope he does the same with his interviews. Every great wrestler should be able to call a match in the ring be able to do a good unscripted promo. BTW, there seems to some sort of pattern. Jake, Kevin, Larry and Superstar all have something not so nice to say about Chris. These guys aren't blind, they know Jericho has been pushed to the moon and is overrated. Jake was calling Jericho boring as far back as 99. And BTW...Larry has a point. Why would Jericho(other than trying to get back at Larry for some reason) use the nickname "Living Legend" knowing full well that Zbyszko has been using that monicker for almost thirty years. I don't blame Larry one bit for being ticked off.
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Post by katiemorgan67212 on Dec 27, 2011 1:55:33 GMT -5
Sting. I hate hate hate Sting. He is horrible on the mic to the point where he has never cut a decent promo in his entire career. He can be passable in the ring but is often sloppy, boring or bad and never great. He has never had an original gimmick. Also, he has been involved in some of the most offensively bad angles in wrestling history like Robocop as his time traveling BFF and the mystery of the black scorpion and I'm sure that I am forgetting something even worse than those two. There are at least two times when he used stunt doubles (when he was attacked by dogs and in a match vs Vampiro) which I think is an embarrassment and something that I can't imagine any respectable wrestler doing. I don't know why he gets a pass for all of the awful stuff he has been involved with.
Also its ridiculous to me that what cemented his greatness in the eyes of most is that he spent a year doing nothing but holding a bat. What does it say about him as performer that he didn't get super over until he stopped talking and wrestling?
I hate all of WCW work. I hate him in TNA. I don't want him anywhere near WWE. And can't think of anyone who deserves to be in the HOF less.
But I know that this is probably a minority viewpoint.
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Post by Cam on Dec 27, 2011 2:07:01 GMT -5
Being in the business longer or being from a different/earlier era doesn't make you better. That's like saying Damien Demento is better than John Cena. Most veterans like Jericho do call their matches in the ring and don't plan them ahead of time unless there is a major spot. You can see Jericho calling his matches in the ring all the time. It's one thing he's not very good at (hiding his calling). If you're taking veterans' opinions into consideration, Jericho is considered one of the top workers of all time. There's only a few old school guys who I've seen badmouth Jericho (Kevin Von Erich and Larry Zbyszko, who is just bitter about the Living Legend thing). I don't have anything against Jake Roberts. But there is no way you can say he's had more great matches than Chris Jericho, or that Jericho doesn't have in-ring psychology. I never said Jericho doesn't have psychology, that's all Jake. I just think Roberts is the better overall worker. And if Jericho doesn't plan out his matches, that's great, I hope he does the same with his interviews. Every great wrestler should be able to call a match in the ring be able to do a good unscripted promo. BTW, there seems to some sort of pattern. Jake, Kevin, Larry and Superstar all have something not so nice to say about Chris. These guys aren't blind, they know Jericho has been pushed to the moon and is overrated. Jake was calling Jericho boring as far back as 99. And BTW...Larry has a point. Why would Jericho(other than trying to get back at Larry for some reason) use the nickname "Living Legend" knowing full well that Zbyszko has been using that monicker for almost thirty years. I don't blame Larry one bit for being ticked off. Jericho doesn't plan out his interviews/promos. Watch his post-RAW stuff from 2003 with Austin. All unscripted, all entertaining. Four guys: Kevin Von Erich - Was only a star in Texas Jake Roberts - Drunken drug addict Larry Zbyszko - Hasbeen who can't let go Superstar Billy Graham - Someone who by most accounts is not a well liked person So there opinion to you is fact? 4 guys, none of whom who have ever worked with Chris Jericho, know best? No, sir. That's insane. What about Steve Austin, Shawn Michaels, Roddy Piper, Ricky Steamboat etc. who all have high amounts of praise for Jericho? Since Legends' opinions mean so much to you? This isn't about Jericho taking the Living Legend name. This is about Zbyszko being bitter about that, and that making his opinion about Chris Jericho biased.
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