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Post by Piccolo on Mar 8, 2012 7:35:56 GMT -5
The point of wrestling is not winning, it's telling great stories and putting on great matches that create moments that people will remember. No, wins don't matter in a fake sport. Storytelling matters. Don't tell someone they shouldn't watch wrestling just because they don't care if someone "loses" or "wins" a match. That's ridiculous.
Wins matter only in the context of whether it tells a good story or not. Sometimes you do want somebody to win, but sometimes you just don't care because you realize that the matches have been amazing, or the story wouldn't have been as good if he won, and it's not as if it's a disappointment for him when he loses because it's all a work. Glory is given to both in a great match or a great feud, regardless of who wins, because we appreciate great work and great acting.
That's not to say one way or the other that they should keep this win streak or use it for something. I'm just saying, it's fundamentally silly to suggest that if you don't care about wins in wrestling, you shouldn't be watching.
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Post by MichaelMartini on Mar 8, 2012 7:59:09 GMT -5
The point of wrestling is not winning, it's telling great stories and putting on great matches that create moments that people will remember. No, wins don't matter in a fake sport. Storytelling matters. Don't tell someone they shouldn't watch wrestling just because they don't care if someone "loses" or "wins" a match. That's ridiculous. Wins matter only in the context of whether it tells a good story or not. Sometimes you do want somebody to win, but sometimes you just don't care because you realize that the matches have been amazing, or the story wouldn't have been as good if he won, and it's not as if it's a disappointment for him when he loses because it's all a work. Glory is given to both in a great match or a great feud, regardless of who wins, because we appreciate great work and great acting. That's not to say one way or the other that they should keep this win streak or use it for something. I'm just saying, it's fundamentally silly to suggest that if you don't care about wins in wrestling, you shouldn't be watching. Exactly. This is all it comes down to. If sacrificing the streak will make for a great story, do it. If they can't think of a storyline better than Taker retiring it with it intact, then they shouldn't end it. Off the top of my head I can think of at least two great stories they can use to end it. They blew up Vulcan in the Star Trek reboot and it's not like people were outraged that all those Vulcans died.
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Post by Allison Reynolds on Mar 8, 2012 8:16:50 GMT -5
He should retire with the streak, imo.
I'd hate for someone new who they choose to get the push from it and waste it. Big and quick pushes seem to go to waste. (Think Lashley)
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2012 8:29:31 GMT -5
At first, I wanted someone to break the Streak. If HBK broke the Streak on his second attempt, I would've been ok with it. Now, I think I want it to go unbroken. I can only come up with a handful of people right now that I feel would have a legitimate shot at doing so and none of them need that sort of rub. People like Punk, Sheamus, Bryan, Wade, Ziggler, etc. don't quite seem capable of ending the Streak and I think they'll have great careers without doing so. Guys like Cena, Orton, Triple H, Kane, Big Show, Jericho, etc. who I think could conceivably do so, either won't be around long enough to benefit from it or just plain don't need the rub. It's a strange thing because the logic would be that you can't have just anyone break it, you need someone that poses enough of a threat that, while stunning, wouldn't be completely out of the blue. However, if they have that sort of status, they'll be a vital part of the company in the future without breaking the Streak. Look at Edge and Orton: they came close, they have had amazing careers in WWE, but they didn't need the victory.
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Arrow
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Arrow on Mar 8, 2012 8:43:05 GMT -5
Aside from John Cena, there's not a single guy on the roster today who I'd find interesting enough to even challenge 'Taker at WrestleMania, let alone end the streak. If we're going to talk about what would make for the best stories, then that's an even bigger reason for him to keep it.
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Turd Ferguson
Hank Scorpio
John Cena: Colossal Douche
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Post by Turd Ferguson on Mar 8, 2012 10:46:22 GMT -5
No, Good God, NO. I've said it before and I'll repeat it untill my face is purple: Not everything has to be about putting over an "up-and-coming guy" This is pretty much my thinking. But an addendum to that should be: it absolutely should not be an established star. Giving HHH that win would be like Vince winning a local lottery. Sure, it's more money, but it's totally not necessary.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Mar 8, 2012 12:33:24 GMT -5
I just feel like you're sacrificing a lot more than you stand to gain. As has been mentioned- you've got the 'story' of the Streak, which has become its own entity; in a way it's less a part of Taker's legacy than it is even for probably fans of the man and his career himself. Sure, it's a fake sport, sure it's fake stats; but people get behind that stuff- hell Goldberg built his entire career on a fake streak. You put a blemish on that, you lose a piece of it. Yeah, if he goes 20-1 or whatever, you'll still be able to say " he went undefeated for X amount of years"; and that'll still be impressive, but you'll never be able to say he went UNDEFEATED, which in itself is storyline material or promo material, or video package stuff they could use from now on. Once ya break that, it's not the same. You're throwing away a lot more that one guy's made up statistics when you end it and what's the benefit? The whole 'time honored tradition' deal? ' Passing the torch?' To who? Unless you know there's a guy you're gonna make the next face of your company, the next Hogan, Austin, Cena, etc; and that'll be the one thing to really cement him in the eyes of the fan etc, what's the point? To put ' a young guy over' that may flame out in a year? To have someone end it that creative may book right into oblivion as they have probably ninety percent of the guys they've pushed in the last few years? Ya risk backlash from the fans for even doing it. In a way, what might look like putting a guy over may be instead saddling him with an entirely unfair burden. He'd get the blame for it too if he did fail to live up to the expectations or hype- " They gave him the Undertaker's streak, and he still couldn't get over/move merchandise/start another boom.." You know he would. That might not create a star, but it might snuff one out. And even say a guy does succeed, ok it's a hell of an accomplishment to list, a neat little footnote, but 1) if a dude is truly gonna get to that level, he'll likely do so on its own merits and 2) if fake stats don't matter, then why would saying 'I ended the streak' really matter either? You just stand to lose a lot more than you gain. You sound like you want to maintain the status quo at all costs, like they're doing now. No big risks because things might not work out is not the right way to do business. That's like Vince going let's not do Wrestlemania because Starcade might do better. It's the kind of logic that has Verne Gagne let go of Hogan because he did a movie. Let's not have Jericho beat Austin and Rock in one night because he might leave. Playing is safe is boring and boring is the worst thing you could possibly be. Besides, this isn't going to the next face of the company, it would be for the next big heel. It's Hogan/Andre in reverse. See, I'd agree with ya if I could see any real tangible benefit that could override the detriment. Got nothing to do with maintaining the status quo or not. Obviously we're at loggerheads about the potential reward/risk though.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Mar 8, 2012 12:44:43 GMT -5
I don't think having the streak broken would hurt Taker's legacy much at all, because he's a memorable character with a great legacy with or without it. And no one'll ever come close to 19 straight Mania wins for quite a while anyway.
But I'd still keep it intact, just as a small "thank you". Plus it's too much of a burden to foist on a young up-and-comer. If he breaks it and doesn't become a crossover star the way Rock or Austin did, too many fans will regard it as a bit of a waste.
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Post by rapidfire187 on Mar 8, 2012 12:51:27 GMT -5
I love the idea of somebody who a) really needs/deserves it and b) is in it for the long haul breaking the streak. However, nobody in WWE fits that criteria to me. So considering tradition and future Wrestlemanias, I think he should retire with the streak in tact. Remember, he could always come back a few years after retirement and defend the streak again if the right guy shows up later. Or he could come back to help out in desperate times.
Of the current roster, the only guys I would be happy to see break the streak would be Bryan and maybe someone in FCW...but realistically speaking, that would be a bad move.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Mar 8, 2012 12:58:23 GMT -5
Only way I say end it is if you are trying to get somebody over. Only time I really thought Taker would lose was when they were still trying to establish Randy Orton as a Legend Killer, but if he wasn't gonna beat Taker I don't really think anybody should right now.
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kdawg
Bubba Ho-Tep
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Post by kdawg on Mar 8, 2012 12:59:57 GMT -5
But what do you think the Undertaker would do? Do you think he personally wants to keep it intact or "pass the torch" to someone? Again, I feel Taker is the last truly old-school guy and would want to give up the streak to someone.
Whatever happens, they should announce (or at least rumors spread about his retirement ala Flair WM 24) that its Takers last match, at a Wrestlemania, and just to see the emotion, pageantry, one way or another, of Taker "riding off into the sunset" with the streak intact, or to emotionally (for both guys) pass the torch to someone he deems worthy and watching the guy get emotional in the ring after the match as he and Taker share words (think Rock/Austin WM 19). His last match must be at WM, weather he keeps the streak or not.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2012 14:03:05 GMT -5
Keep it intact. Whoever breaks it will end up red-hot for a while and then slide back down the card after a year or so. I have no reason to believe that the booking would suddenly get better than it is now.
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zing
Don Corleone
Talk about him more!
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Post by zing on Mar 8, 2012 14:27:24 GMT -5
I definitely believe they should keep it.
1 - The guy has been an absolute legend through so many different eras of the company, keeping kayfabe even with a silly sounding zombie character and being a locker room leader forever. Giving him a legacy like that seems a great way to say thank you. 2 - As a fan, with the mark hat on, who really wants to see Taker lose? How often do you get a happy ending like that in wrestling? 3 - The character is already enough like a legend that it could be brought up for the rest of time if he retires with it intact. 4 - There is nobody who could convincingly break the streak without pissing a hell of a lot of people off. 5 - With the terrible booking in recent years, any momentum from breaking the streak would no doubt be consigned to oblivion in no time, meaning there is much to lose and little to gain.
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Post by johnnybaseball, Mantaur Fan on Mar 8, 2012 14:34:05 GMT -5
Maybe they should bring in young up-and-comer Ric Flair to break it, by bleeding all over 'Taker until he taps out from sheer disgust. Or, maybe that's the worst idea ever, by far. I don't know, I'm a Cena fan, I don't know up from down anymore. (Just joking, it's clearly a great idea)
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Post by Hit Girl on Mar 8, 2012 15:09:32 GMT -5
WWE's booking isn't consistent enough for them to have some up and comer to beat Taker then use that as a basis for a sustained push to stardom.
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MrBRulzOK
Wade Wilson
Mr No-Pants Heathen
Something Witty Here.
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Post by MrBRulzOK on Mar 8, 2012 15:20:16 GMT -5
At one point I thought that Taker should lose to someone, but nowadays I don't have any faith that whoever broke the streak finally would become a bigger star for it. WWE has a proven tracken record of taking people with lots of momentum, which undoubtedly would be created for whoever pulled it off, and completely squandering it. Just look at... well, anyone on the roster really.
They'd be better off just having Taker retire undefeated and then walk off into the proverbial sunset. At least that would live on as a truly iconic memory; much more than if say... Wade Barrett for example was the one to finally end the streak.
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Post by corndog on Mar 8, 2012 15:25:17 GMT -5
Might as well retire with it, especially if losing it means HHH will end the streak. Also I agree, whatever young wrestler beats him they will screw it up.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2012 15:33:46 GMT -5
If WWE’s smart they can still be making money off the mystique of the streak years and years after Undertaker is gone. You just can’t do that the same way if there’s a one behind the twenty and something.
The legend of The Undertaker’s undefeated streak will live forever while the “rub” that some young guy gets from beating him will live for as long as it takes that person to fail a drug test/get injured/get frustrated and leave the company.
Randy Orton and Kane have reportedly declined the opportunity to end it. The likes of Triple H and Chris Jericho have gone on record saying it should never end. Anyone with long term business sense must realize that it makes no sense to end it.
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BearDogg-X
Vegeta
Still lurking in the shadows....
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Post by BearDogg-X on Mar 8, 2012 15:57:45 GMT -5
Whatever Taker wants to do with it. Though I think that it should never end. Who is believable enough/would the majority of fans buy to end it? This is pretty much my feelings on 'Taker's WrestleMania win streak. He should just retire with it intact.
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Post by mjolnir on Mar 8, 2012 16:19:40 GMT -5
If, and this is a big if, this year is Taker's last, I want him to win. It might be selfish and it might be petty but I don't want Triple H to end it. He doesn't need it, it would just be another ego stroke for himself. Frankly, I don't think he deserves it either.
If Taker can go, even for one more match after this, however I feel he should have the streak ended. I wouldn't even care if it was John Cena that did it. Since from a kayfabe standpoint, if HHH fails, Cena's about the only guy who could realistically beat Undertaker right now. With his super hero like feats being the only thing that can compare to Taker's supernatural gifted skills.
Albeit I would honestly prefer they build someone new, or relatively new, up slowly and give it to them. Though to do that, at this point, they would've already needed to start building them up to the audience and I don't see anyone like that on the roster.
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