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Post by Piccolo on Mar 11, 2012 23:07:33 GMT -5
Sorry for taking this into an area that may skirt the board rules but how is prasing Allah any different than Shawn Michaels dropping to his knees in prayer during his entrance. Or indeed any promo where HBK mentions God, which happened a lot during his feud with Vince (it led to Vince v God after all) and with the Undertaker. To be fair, HBK even got some boos during his freakin' retirement speech when he thanked God. I don't think the Christian stuff was all that well-received either... it's just, when you're that established, you have more latitude. |
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Post by Andy Martin on Mar 11, 2012 23:30:41 GMT -5
I disagree with:
-The Miz hate
- That WWE are somehow missing the boat on McIntyre, Kofi and the like
- That Morrison was a 'sure fire' main eventer.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
Posts: 46,931 
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Mar 12, 2012 8:15:43 GMT -5
I'm not denying having him say "Praise Allah!" was a tactic to get heat but at the same time getting booed for it kinda proved Hassan's point. I think its the religious aspect of it that made it touchy. Its kinda like when they contemplated building a mosque near the site of where the Twin Towers were destroyed. Also, WWE isn't really good with potraying stereotypes of races and religions, so even if Hassan was booked as a face, if he sayed "Praised Allah", it wouldn't be well received. The odd thing about it, is that WWE actually was pretty sensitive about the gimmick that first night (it took a little bit for things to go off the rails). "Praise Allah" carries a much softer connotation than "Allah'u Akbar" would have. I get the feeling that Vince was pretty hands-off in the creation of that gimmick, and the jumping off the slippery slope into terrorist-dom was Vince finally getting directly involved with it, thinking he had his 21st-Century Iron Sheik/Col. Mustafa. |
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Post by B'Cup x on Mar 12, 2012 8:26:02 GMT -5
You know what retconning means? They haven't retconned anything. They just don't mention him and rightfully so. But he could throw a great German suplex!!!! Nancy couldn't and Daniel sure as hell couldn't!!!! Forget about the murders. Every Raw, Smackdown, and PPV should open up with the commentators giving a brief but thorough rundown of Benoit's career highlights. Vince McMahon needs to get his head out of his ass. What publically traded company wouldn't want to be associated with a child murderer? Kind of an over-reaction,no? The poster didnt say Benoit should be praised at all let alone what you're suggesting x |
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donny
Team Rocket
Posts: 770
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Post by donny on Mar 12, 2012 10:13:23 GMT -5
But he could throw a great German suplex!!!! Nancy couldn't and Daniel sure as hell couldn't!!!! Forget about the murders. Every Raw, Smackdown, and PPV should open up with the commentators giving a brief but thorough rundown of Benoit's career highlights. Vince McMahon needs to get his head out of his ass. What publically traded company wouldn't want to be associated with a child murderer? Kind of an over-reaction,no? The poster didnt say Benoit should be praised at all let alone what you're suggesting x I was a bit facetious in my post and for that I do apologize, but my question is this: what do people want for Benoit? His matches are not edited from dvds of events like Wrestlemania 20. Anything that is not on those videos can probably be found on Youtube. A WWE commentator will never say, "He's got him in the crossface!! Shades of the late Chris Benoit." Nor should they. He will never get into the hall of fame. Nor should he. He has not been retconned. He is just never mentioned unless there is really no other way around it. And given that he didn't have a Hulk Hogan or Steve Austin like impact on the business, it is not necessary at all to mention him. |
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Post by B'Cup x on Mar 12, 2012 11:45:30 GMT -5
from a personnal standpoint, I no longer care for Chris Benoit (before 2007he was in my top 3 favourites) and I find it difficult to watch segments/matches with him in. I would rather he never be mentioned again (as Im of the group who believes that the murders negate anything he ever did in the wrestling business). However (whilst not agreeing with it) I can fully understand why people would rather he isn't 'erased' from WWE history.
As an aside, he also had one of the greatest entrance themes ever, which is a shame x
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Post by Urfarkendarf on Mar 12, 2012 11:50:17 GMT -5
from a personnal standpoint, I no longer care for Chris Benoit (before 2007he was in my top 3 favourites) and I find it difficult to watch segments/matches with him in. I would rather he never be mentioned again (as Im of the group who believes that the murders negate anything he ever did in the wrestling business). However (whilst not agreeing with it) I can fully understand why people would rather he isn't 'erased' from WWE history. I think the majority of the IWC agree with this. It seems the ones who want to keep his legacy alive are in the minority. |
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Post by B'Cup x on Mar 12, 2012 11:53:34 GMT -5
from a personnal standpoint, I no longer care for Chris Benoit (before 2007he was in my top 3 favourites) and I find it difficult to watch segments/matches with him in. I would rather he never be mentioned again (as Im of the group who believes that the murders negate anything he ever did in the wrestling business). However (whilst not agreeing with it) I can fully understand why people would rather he isn't 'erased' from WWE history. I think the majority of the IWC agree with this. It seems the ones who want to keep his legacy alive are in the minority. sorry, that was in response to the previous post, not an actual disagreement x |
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Mar 12, 2012 11:55:08 GMT -5
I disagree with the idea that you can't push anyone new during Wrestlemania season. When you have a big match like Rock & Cena that will sell the PPV by itself, there's plenty of room to push the young guys.
Sure everyone will get the WM payday in a multi man match, but how exactly are they going to get themselves over (like all the veterans who "call out the haters" are saying)?
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Mar 12, 2012 12:06:18 GMT -5
I disagree with the idea that you can't push anyone new during Wrestlemania season. When you have a big match like Rock & Cena that will sell the PPV by itself, there's plenty of room to push the young guys. Sure everyone will get the WM payday in a multi man match, but how exactly are they going to get themselves over (like all the veterans who "call out the haters" are saying)? The WWE could always give the guy the want to push a good showing at the mulit man tag match. Sure they likely won't be able to get over from that one match alone, but it could serve as a good base for a continued push after Wresltemania. But right now fans are focusing all their attention on the big matches. That's why to no need to waste any effort in trying to get someone new over now. |
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Post by corndog on Mar 12, 2012 12:58:49 GMT -5
-people shouldn't complain about WWE's treatment of Chris Benoit. they don't pretend he never existed, they just don't promote him at all. which is the smart thing to do. I'd cringe if Michael Cole et al started going on rants about what a great wrestler Chris Benoit was. he was a great wrestler. he also murdered his family. it's impossible to bring up the former without it being clouded over by the latter. However, WWE HAS erased Benoit in their WM publications that clearly advertise on the cover "EVERY wrestler" and "EVERY" match, where it doesn't even bother to talk about the MAIN EVENT OF WMXX. I would settle for WWE at least acknowledging him in publications and video without heavy editing. Unfortunately, the only place I've seen it since that tragedy was the WWE encyclopedia. he buried Chris Jericho, Booker T, Rob Van Dam, Kane and even Randy Orton (first WHC reign) pretty thoroughly. hell CM Punk's one of the biggest stars in the company and this old dog turd couldn't bother putting him over cleanly. god forbid the company he has a vested interest in make new stars and thus make more money. People forget that HHH was given the WHC by Eric Bischoff in September of 2002 to be re-introduced into the WWE continuity. The belt needed some prestige so it was given to their biggest heel at the time. I'll concede that HHH tends to bury Jericho (Jericho does not have a win over HHH in his career) but as for the others listed: -Booker T supposedly called an audible at WM that he was injured so they weren't about to put a belt on an injured performer. -RVD was probably still not all that trusted because of his recreationals - and while WWE didn't have Wellness testing at the time, having a World Champion busted for marijuana posession is still a black eye on your company, even pre-PG. -Kane was still bouncing in the midcard as a b-belt and tag team champion, so I don't know if they were even seriously considering putting the world title on Kane at that time. Summer 03 is where he lost the mask and he went heel, so..... -Orton's first WHC reign in 04 was ridiculously forced and not well-received. Even if I liked Orton, in 2004 you would have had a hard time convincing me that Orton could actually beat Chris Benoit in a fair fight. This doesn't excuse HBK's win at Survivor Series 2002 - though IWC would shout "KLIQ", I think it was a "Thank you" reign for Shawn's return. I also agree that HHH should have let Goldberg take the belt at Summerslam 2003, as Hunter was working hurt to begin with. In sum, I think that the "Reign of Terror" was nothing more than an extended angle to make the World Heavyweight title important to WWE continuity again. Juggling it wouldn't have worked and some of those that HHH faced might have deserved it to the IWC but there are a lot of other factors that fit into this that are easier to forget and just say "OMG HHH Berries everyone LOL WTF".[/quote] There are two sides to the HHH argument, but neither of them includes him putting anyone over. Has HHH lost matches? Of course, he is a twelve time champion, which means he has lost twelve times. He did lose to Cena, Batista,Sheamus, Orton, Hardy, Benoit and a couple others. But the thing HHH hasn't allowed anyone to truely do since he has been married to Stephanie is become the guy. Also Orton, Batista,Sheamus and Benoit were his friends. Cena beat HHH once, but on every casual match(that I remember) they have on Raw HHH wins and usually cleanly. Why did HHH beat Cena after he became the face of the company? Did Hogan eat a bunch of pins from Andre after WM3? No, because it would make the win look weak. Also HHH usually beats a guy that is hot and more over than him. Look at Jericho, RVD, Booker T, and CM Punk, they all were extremely over and a couple of them could have became pretty big players if HHH allowed them to win. Booker T has a good reason with the injury and maybe RVD wasn't the most reliable. But he was reliable enough to get wins over Austin and Angle. Why did CM Punk lose to HHH even though he beat Cena twice in a row and afterwards has been booked incredibly strong as champion? The only weak link has been his loss to HHH. It just seems like HHH won't allow anyone to truely get over him. He is still the guy, the top dog, even though he isn't even a regular competitor. When he does let others win he always gets his win back and comes out of the fued not looking any weaker and the other guy not looking better than him. However, it might not just be HHH, alot could be Vince as well. Since his problems with Austin and Hogan previously, Vince seems reluctant to allow anyone to become bigger than the company. HHH is a safe bet due to his marriage to his daughter that he won't be leaving. It's alot like the territory promoters putting the belts on themselves or family. They didn't have to worry about the belt leaving or their top star leaving the promotion. Vince has recently seemed reluctant to allow someone to get bigger than the WWE, so this is certainly buyable. The problem is this will stun the chance of a boom period. All of them have been created by stars that became extremely popular such as Hogan, Austin and the Rock. |
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Post by That Mickie Fan on Mar 12, 2012 13:08:16 GMT -5
Model divas suck.
Eve, Layla, Alicia, Trish, Sable, and Candice all say hi.
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Mar 12, 2012 19:51:48 GMT -5
Model divas suck. Eve, Layla, Alicia, Trish, Sable, and Candice all say hi. Alicia is awful, Candice and Sable were terrible, Eve is barely better and Trish's abilities were greatly exaggerated. Those really aren't great examples. You want a better one? Try Victoria. Exactly same background as Trish yet a far better wrestler. |
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Post by chunkylover53 on Mar 12, 2012 22:12:24 GMT -5
Kind of an over-reaction,no? The poster didnt say Benoit should be praised at all let alone what you're suggesting x I was a bit facetious in my post and for that I do apologize, but my question is this: what do people want for Benoit? His matches are not edited from dvds of events like Wrestlemania 20. Anything that is not on those videos can probably be found on Youtube. A WWE commentator will never say, "He's got him in the crossface!! Shades of the late Chris Benoit." Nor should they. He will never get into the hall of fame. Nor should he. He has not been retconned. He is just never mentioned unless there is really no other way around it. And given that he didn't have a Hulk Hogan or Steve Austin like impact on the business, it is not necessary at all to mention him. He even had a sizeable biography in the WWE encyclopedia, and a picture of him as well. So no, WWE is NOT pretending he didn't exist. |
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Post by chunkylover53 on Mar 12, 2012 22:16:00 GMT -5
[
People forget that HHH was given the WHC by Eric Bischoff in September of 2002 to be re-introduced into the WWE continuity. The belt needed some prestige so it was given to their biggest heel at the time. I'll concede that HHH tends to bury Jericho (Jericho does not have a win over HHH in his career) but as for the others listed:[/quote]
Besides that WWF championship phantom win(I don't know if it would count as one), I can think of at least two.
On Smackdown in April 2002, he had a victory via roll-up.
And I believe on a RAW in 2000, he won via DQ.
Indirectly, him and Benoit won the tag titles from The Two Man Power Trip, though I forgot who pinned who(I know Jericho didn't pin or make HHH submit).
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Mar 13, 2012 11:46:27 GMT -5
Indirectly, him and Benoit won the tag titles from The Two Man Power Trip, though I forgot who pinned who(I know Jericho didn't pin or make HHH submit). IIRC, Benoit pinned Austin after Triple H accidently nailed him with the sledgehammer. |
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Celgress
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Superior One
Posts: 19,009
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Post by Celgress on Mar 13, 2012 12:09:10 GMT -5
from a personnal standpoint, I no longer care for Chris Benoit (before 2007he was in my top 3 favourites) and I find it difficult to watch segments/matches with him in. I would rather he never be mentioned again (as Im of the group who believes that the murders negate anything he ever did in the wrestling business). However (whilst not agreeing with it) I can fully understand why people would rather he isn't 'erased' from WWE history. As an aside, he also had one of the greatest entrance themes ever, which is a shame x While on the Benoit subject, here is the link to an interesting Wikipedia article on the history of the cultural practice of erasing a person from the public record/collective memory ( Damnatio Memoriae): en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damnatio_memoriae |
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Mar 13, 2012 13:19:26 GMT -5
OH. Here's one: This strange notion that a person's placement on the card is somehow predetermined in their genes and must not be violated.
"That guys's just a midcarder, he shouldn't be in the main event." No, he's a main eventer, because he's in the damned main event. That's what that means.
"He's a great wrestler, but he has no business being in the main event!" This type of thing is so inane... I mean there is absolutely no reasoning behind this at all. It's a completely meaningless sentence.
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Post by xCompackx on Mar 13, 2012 13:23:51 GMT -5
OH. Here's one: This strange notion that a person's placement on the card is somehow predetermined in their genes and must not be violated. "That guys's just a midcarder, he shouldn't be in the main event." No, he's a main eventer, because he's in the damned main event. That's what that means. "He's a great wrestler, but he has no business being in the main event!" This type of thing is so inane... I mean there is absolutely no reasoning behind this at all. It's a completely meaningless sentence. God, I hate this too. Saying someone is a "Midcarder for life" is a serious lie. I'd bet if Jinder Mahal was given a new gimmick, got some new moves, and really got pushed to the max, He'd be over just fine. |
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Post by That Mickie Fan on Mar 13, 2012 13:52:48 GMT -5
Model divas suck. Eve, Layla, Alicia, Trish, Sable, and Candice all say hi. Alicia is awful, Candice and Sable were terrible, Eve is barely better and Trish's abilities were greatly exaggerated. Those really aren't great examples. You want a better one? Try Victoria. Exactly same background as Trish yet a far better wrestler. I'll see your Victoria and raise You an I disagree completely.... She was already trained when she debuted on RAW. |
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