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Post by joebob27 on Apr 30, 2012 8:19:21 GMT -5
He could have taken Cena out without losing, and without winning, for that fact. It's just really dumb, people can't separate good matches from bad/dumb finishes. Since everyone loves this match, I'm guessing it's awesome. But damn if that's not a dumb finish. He probably gets paid more upfront money than anybody in the company (including the Rock), and he jobs first time out to one of his top two potential opponents, as the heel (it's acceptable to lose as a face).
Whoops. Even better is that Cena's character has no growth. He lost last time because he was a dick who showboated. Now the OTHER guy lost because he's a dick who showboated.
We're going around in circles here. Something that was a chance to evolve Cena's character goes by the board. Now he wins and goes away, and the rest of the roster has to get fed to Brock to build him up.
Alot of you guys that like this finish won't like the finish when Punk is EASILY fed to Lesnar to get his heat back. And that's what's coming.
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The Doctor
Dennis Stamp
New teeth. That's weird.
Posts: 4,952
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Post by The Doctor on Apr 30, 2012 8:21:22 GMT -5
Cena might not want revenge but Brock might. Could be that they will show his 'new focus' after this loss and have him destroy a succession of people. Then when Cena comes back we have just as exciting a rematch but not for the reasons we all expected. Also if Brock is going to Wrestlemania, which is highly likely, it makes more sense to have him beat Cena in the build up to that match. If Lesnar had won last night and then lost just before his WM feud it would then THAT would have been bad booking. Except...if an unmotivated, mostly broken Cena can beat Brock after getting two moves in, why in god's name should we expect Brock to beat a healthy, well rested Cena? Cena wasn't in any sense unmotivated. Brock was showboating for most of the match. That has been the whole point of his character since his return. He's been all ego and 'above' WWE. Now he has a reason to take this seriously. If a man who doesn't really care can destroy Cena like that, what could he do if he has reason to actually focus? Now if he goes on a big streak and is, later, confronted by Cena returning as the knight in shining armour we have a real battle to look forward to. |
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Cronant
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 17,556
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Post by Cronant on Apr 30, 2012 8:21:48 GMT -5
Cena winning makes any rematch lose it's luster Completely disagree. I think its the exact opposite. Cena coming back to be the one to try and stop Lesnar again after he's ran through people is going to be amazing. Where's the drama if Lesnar destroys him? Why would I want to see it again? See how easy it is to make a rematch sound unappealing? |
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Post by memphis25 on Apr 30, 2012 8:23:11 GMT -5
Guys saying the results doesn't matter is worse than the actual loss. If the workers don't care why would the casual fan care enough to put down 50 bucks for a PPV.
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Apr 30, 2012 8:24:50 GMT -5
Except...if an unmotivated, mostly broken Cena can beat Brock after getting two moves in, why in god's name should we expect Brock to beat a healthy, well rested Cena? Cena wasn't in any sense unmotivated. Brock was showboating for most of the match. That has been the whole point of his character since his return. He's been all ego and 'above' WWE. Now he has a reason to take this seriously. If a man who doesn't really care can destroy Cena like that, what could he do if he has reason to actually focus? Now if he goes on a big streak and is, later, confronted by Cena returning as the knight in shining armour we have a real battle to look forward to. Except, Cena already beat him as a broken man. Again, what reason do we have to think Brock would lose to an actually motivated Cena, as opposed to the guy he already lost to, who had to have a guy screaming at him to "WAKE UP!" to even break him halfway out of "mopiness"? |
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Cronant
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by Cronant on Apr 30, 2012 8:25:40 GMT -5
Cena wasn't in any sense unmotivated. Brock was showboating for most of the match. That has been the whole point of his character since his return. He's been all ego and 'above' WWE. Now he has a reason to take this seriously. If a man who doesn't really care can destroy Cena like that, what could he do if he has reason to actually focus? Now if he goes on a big streak and is, later, confronted by Cena returning as the knight in shining armour we have a real battle to look forward to. Except, Cena already beat him as a broken man. Again, what reason do we have to think Brock would lose to an actually motivated Cena, as opposed to the guy he already lost to, who had to have a guy screaming at him to "WAKE UP!" to even break him halfway out of "mopiness"? He wasn't a broken man though. Where is that from? He got scared, then manned up and didn't bs like he did with Rock. |
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Apr 30, 2012 8:26:14 GMT -5
Cena winning makes any rematch lose it's luster Completely disagree. I think its the exact opposite. Cena coming back to be the one to try and stop Lesnar again after he's ran through people is going to be amazing. Where's the drama if Lesnar destroys him? Why would I want to see it again? See how easy it is to make a rematch sound unappealing? Because this wasn't THE John Cena. This was a John Cena coming off a loss to the Rock, then getting his ass a little kicked by Brock a couple times. This Cena was a broken man. Brock should have beaten him. Now, when Cena comes back, actually fresh and motivated.......so what? He already beat Brock when he was at his lowest confidence level. |
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Post by Ryushinku on Apr 30, 2012 8:26:18 GMT -5
Funny though, I was saying much the same thing about HBK-Taker at WM26 and HHH-Taker at WM28.
It's all how you do it. Someone can lose 1-2-3 and yet the rematch can still have huge heat and interest.
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Post by joebob27 on Apr 30, 2012 8:27:06 GMT -5
Cena winning makes any rematch lose it's luster Completely disagree. I think its the exact opposite. Cena coming back to be the one to try and stop Lesnar again after he's ran through people is going to be amazing. Where's the drama if Lesnar destroys him? Why would I want to see it again? See how easy it is to make a rematch sound unappealing? You need a refresher in one week of wrestling course study: How to book a monster heel 101. You're not getting it at all. Does Henry/Orton work if Orton just drops his ass with an RKO and wins the first match? f*** no. LOL. Does Vader/Sting work if Sting nails him with a couple of Stinger splashes and gets the win first time now? Shit, they should have just booked him as a tweener, had him lose, THEN turn heel. But hey, we gotta make sure we're getting the right crowd reaction, the one we want. Can't wait 3-4 weeks. There is no reason to want to see a rematch. You know how the story starts and you know how the story ends. |
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Cronant
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 17,556
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Post by Cronant on Apr 30, 2012 8:27:30 GMT -5
Completely disagree. I think its the exact opposite. Cena coming back to be the one to try and stop Lesnar again after he's ran through people is going to be amazing. Where's the drama if Lesnar destroys him? Why would I want to see it again? See how easy it is to make a rematch sound unappealing? Because this wasn't THE John Cena. This was a John Cena coming off a loss to the Rock, then getting his ass a little kicked by Brock a couple times. This Cena was a broken man. Brock should have beaten him. Now, when Cena comes back, actually fresh and motivated.......so what? He already beat Brock when he was at his lowest confidence level. This was THE John Cena. That match personified him better than any other one recently. The guy who wrestled the Rock wasn't Cena. This was the man Edge wanted. |
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Post by EoE: Workin On My Night Cheese on Apr 30, 2012 8:27:57 GMT -5
Wow... the thread's moving faster now than it likely will through RAW in 12 hours time.
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Cronant
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 17,556
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Post by Cronant on Apr 30, 2012 8:29:07 GMT -5
Completely disagree. I think its the exact opposite. Cena coming back to be the one to try and stop Lesnar again after he's ran through people is going to be amazing. Where's the drama if Lesnar destroys him? Why would I want to see it again? See how easy it is to make a rematch sound unappealing? You need a refresher in one week of wrestling course study: How to book a monster heel 101. You're not getting it at all. Does Henry/Orton work if Orton just drops his ass with an RKO and wins the first match? f*** no. LOL. Does Vader/Sting work if Sting nails him with a couple of Stinger splashes and gets the win first time now? s***, they should have just booked him as a tweener, had him lose, THEN turn heel. But hey, we gotta make sure we're getting the right crowd reaction, the one we want. Can't wait 3-4 weeks. There is no reason to want to see a rematch. You know how the story starts and you know how the story ends. You don't book things the same way every time. You can change depending on the situation. So please, chill with the "booking 101". After the match last night, a rematch months down the line is going to be way more hyped than if Lesnar just came out and destroyed Cena. |
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The Doctor
Dennis Stamp
New teeth. That's weird.
Posts: 4,952
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Post by The Doctor on Apr 30, 2012 8:29:35 GMT -5
Cena wasn't in any sense unmotivated. Brock was showboating for most of the match. That has been the whole point of his character since his return. He's been all ego and 'above' WWE. Now he has a reason to take this seriously. If a man who doesn't really care can destroy Cena like that, what could he do if he has reason to actually focus? Now if he goes on a big streak and is, later, confronted by Cena returning as the knight in shining armour we have a real battle to look forward to. Except, Cena already beat him as a broken man. Again, what reason do we have to think Brock would lose to an actually motivated Cena, as opposed to the guy he already lost to, who had to have a guy screaming at him to "WAKE UP!" to even break him halfway out of "mopiness"? John Cena wasn't broken. He was backed into a corner. Edge's promo was there to refocus him. It worked and he still almost got killed by a Lesnar who was sold as not really caring all that much. |
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dav
Hank Scorpio
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Post by dav on Apr 30, 2012 8:31:26 GMT -5
Because it was a fluke win and nothing more. Add a stipulation to the next match along with Lesnar actually taking it seriously and you've got the drama back again. It's that easy. Don't see it as a fluke it was an extreme rules match and Cena hit him with a chain and busted him open and then hit his move on the steps for a 1-2-3 dead in the center. If it was actually that easy wouldn't WWE be doing stellar business? Well their ratings are high right now and they've just come off their most successful PPV ever so business seems to be doing fine. As for the match, Cena only got the chance to win because of Brock's arrogance and he had every chance to win but threw it away to punish Cena. So it was a fluke win. Cena got destroyed throughout and now we can set up the rematch with this in mind. |
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Apr 30, 2012 8:31:28 GMT -5
You need a refresher in one week of wrestling course study: How to book a monster heel 101. You're not getting it at all. Does Henry/Orton work if Orton just drops his ass with an RKO and wins the first match? f*** no. LOL. Does Vader/Sting work if Sting nails him with a couple of Stinger splashes and gets the win first time now? s***, they should have just booked him as a tweener, had him lose, THEN turn heel. But hey, we gotta make sure we're getting the right crowd reaction, the one we want. Can't wait 3-4 weeks. There is no reason to want to see a rematch. You know how the story starts and you know how the story ends. You don't book things the same way every time. You can change depending on the situation. So please, chill with the "booking 101". After the match last night, a rematch months down the line is going to be way more hyped than if Lesnar just came out and destroyed Cena. Except it won't. Cena already beat Brock, what possible reason do I have to believe that it won't happen again? Because we've got a month, two max, where Cena won't be on TV and Brock will probably run over all of the "Internet" guys(Punk, Bryan, Ryder and at this point, beating those last two is almost meaningless) to make him look like "a monster" after choking in his first match? Flat out, if Cena won this one, he will win all subsequent matches. They've killed the suspense of the story. |
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Post by joebob27 on Apr 30, 2012 8:32:58 GMT -5
Their ratings are not high.  One way out of this is a double-turn. But that means Brock would turn at a rate that TNA would think was too much. |
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Cronant
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 17,556
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Post by Cronant on Apr 30, 2012 8:33:25 GMT -5
You don't book things the same way every time. You can change depending on the situation. So please, chill with the "booking 101". After the match last night, a rematch months down the line is going to be way more hyped than if Lesnar just came out and destroyed Cena. Except it won't. Cena already beat Brock, what possible reason do I have to believe that it won't happen again? Because we've got a month, two max, where Cena won't be on TV and Brock will probably run over all of the "Internet" guys(Punk, Bryan, Ryder and at this point, beating those last two is almost meaningless) to make him look like "a monster" after choking in his first match? Flat out, if Cena won this one, he will win all subsequent matches. They've killed the suspense of the story. If Brock destroys Cena why would I care about a rematch? If its that easy for him why do I care about any other match he has now? See how easy it is to say a rematch holds no interest? Any and all talk about a rematch is useless until they actually build it. The context is important. There's plenty of room for interest to be built regardless of who won the match. That much is fact. |
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Post by Red Impact on Apr 30, 2012 8:33:29 GMT -5
Cena winning makes any rematch lose it's luster Completely disagree. I think its the exact opposite. Cena coming back to be the one to try and stop Lesnar again after he's ran through people is going to be amazing. Where's the drama if Lesnar destroys him? Why would I want to see it again? See how easy it is to make a rematch sound unappealing? Not really, you sort of failed to me. If the villain wins, it forces the hero to look at why they lost. They have to change their strategy, they have to get refocused, they have to get over the mental hurdles that come from getting their asses kicked, because thye know that they're going to be in for a brawl and they have to get into the right mindset to win. If there's a rematch, you're not seeing it to see Lesnar destroy Cena, you're seeing it to see if Cena can overcome getting destroyed. Now, if they do have Brock go through a tear and have to call on Cena to take him out again, it literally is the exact same match. Brock is the monster and tears into Cena, and Cena somehow pulls deep within to do what it takes to win. Or Brock tears into Cena, pins him and leaves, which he could have done yesterday. Either way, it's the same, only the mystique of whether Cena can pull out a win is gone. Brock vs. other people can still be huge, but Brock vs. Cena II just isn't as interesting. |
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Apr 30, 2012 8:35:09 GMT -5
Except it won't. Cena already beat Brock, what possible reason do I have to believe that it won't happen again? Because we've got a month, two max, where Cena won't be on TV and Brock will probably run over all of the "Internet" guys(Punk, Bryan, Ryder and at this point, beating those last two is almost meaningless) to make him look like "a monster" after choking in his first match? Flat out, if Cena won this one, he will win all subsequent matches. They've killed the suspense of the story. If Brock destroys Cena why would I care about a rematch? If its that easy for him why do I care about any other match he has now? See how easy it is to say a rematch holds no interest? Any and all talk about a rematch is useless until they actually build it. The context is important. Simple: After Brock breaks Cena in half, you have him go away for a few months, every couple of weeks showing a vignette of Cena "getting back into shape", rehabbing, training, what have you, saying that all Brock did was put a target on his back, that what he fought wasn't the real Cena, but trust me, he's coming back, and when he does Lesnar? Here comes the pain! INSTANT buys, guaranteed. |
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Cronant
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 17,556
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Post by Cronant on Apr 30, 2012 8:36:10 GMT -5
Completely disagree. I think its the exact opposite. Cena coming back to be the one to try and stop Lesnar again after he's ran through people is going to be amazing. Where's the drama if Lesnar destroys him? Why would I want to see it again? See how easy it is to make a rematch sound unappealing? Not really, you sort of failed to me. If the villain wins, it forces the hero to look at why they lost. They have to change their strategy, they have to get refocused, they have to get over the mental hurdles that come from getting their asses kicked, because thye know that they're going to be in for a brawl and they have to get into the right mindset to win. If there's a rematch, you're not seeing it to see Lesnar destroy Cena, you're seeing it to see if Cena can overcome getting destroyed. Now, if they do have Brock go through a tear and have to call on Cena to take him out again, it literally is the exact same match. Brock is the monster and tears into Cena, and Cena somehow pulls deep within to do what it takes to win. Or Brock tears into Cena, pins him and leaves, which he could have done yesterday. Either way, it's the same, only the mystique of whether Cena can pull out a win is gone. Brock vs. other people can still be huge, but Brock vs. Cena II just isn't as interesting. The villain doesn't always start at the top though. Sometimes, the s*** they have to go through to get to the top is just as interesting and part of the story. The slight resistance now gives Lesnar reason to take everything seriously, unlike what he did with Cena. Sometimes, the interest is in what happens when the bad guy doesn't get what he wants right off the bat. |
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helped $lim jinx NXT. Woops
