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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Apr 30, 2012 8:57:51 GMT -5
Except...I know he's not gonna get it. He had it, and lost it. Why should I believe he's gonna get it "next time"? Well why would I care about Lesnar if he's already there from day 1? If I know ahead of time he's not going to lose for months if at all why care? Just saying, this "Why should I care" can be used in nearly every situation. If people are going to continually say that because Cena won then people will say that for Lesnar winning. Except, I already illustrated to you EXACTLY how to make people care about Brock winning, but you chose not to acknowledge it because it deflates your "Why should I care is applicable everywhere" argument. Cena losing was the right thing to do, because then you show him gearing up for the comeback, where he will get his revenge. |
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Post by EoE: Workin On My Night Cheese on Apr 30, 2012 8:58:07 GMT -5
Normally the best course of action is to wait to see what happens next, but WWE have lost those privileges in the eyes of a lot of fans because of consistently disappointing endings to hot angles in recent years.
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Cronant
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 17,556
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Post by Cronant on Apr 30, 2012 9:00:06 GMT -5
Who says this is complex? Lesnar destroys RAW trying to get another chance at Cena. Does something heinous to bait him. Money made. Not really, Cena's already done it. And "does something heinous" is what I'm talking about, entertainment has reared its ugly head. I mean if he kills Apollo Creed in wrestling terms, does anyone actually believe Cena is losing THAT encounter? You make it sound like Cena didn't have a problem with Lesnar. The lasting impression of the match was that Cena got f***ed up and had to leave because of it. THIS is why the booking of the match was the important thing. |
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Apr 30, 2012 9:00:17 GMT -5
Normally the best course of action is to wait to see what happens next, but WWE have lost those privileges in the eyes of a lot of fans because of consistently disappointing endings to hot angles in recent years. Pretty much. At this point, anyone who spouts off "wait and see" INSTANTLY has their argument go down in my eyes. And that applies to wrestling across the board, not just WWE. Generally speaking, "wait and see" is just code for "The screwed the pooch, MAYBE they'll do better next time?" |
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Post by joebob27 on Apr 30, 2012 9:00:39 GMT -5
Basically what it comes down to is in WWE, the evil character cannot win. The only way for a superhero character to lose is to run afoul of an equal or better superhero character, of course with some schmozzyness involved.
If Hollywood booked like WWE does, the popcorn movie industry would be dead forever. "Well, Rocky knocked out Clubber Lang 10 minutes into the movie, that was anticlimatic. But wait, he wants a rematch, gee, I wonder who will win that one."
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Arrow
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,122
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Post by Arrow on Apr 30, 2012 9:01:14 GMT -5
I'd have preferred if Lesnar destroyed Cena, Cena took some time off, and Lesnar destroyed Raw in his absence leaving it up to Cena to come back to save it. You have your drama in not being sure if Cena (who already lost once) could really stop Lesnar.
That said, it's not really a big deal. Wins and losses don't matter in this company, and WWE has already proven that they can still build drama in a program even after one person has already taken a clean loss. If they wanted to do a Cena-Lesnar rematch, all it'd take is a few weeks of booking to add interest in the storyline.
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Post by mysterydriver on Apr 30, 2012 9:01:33 GMT -5
Maybe this will be the first Raw thread to get to a 100 pages before Raw even starts.
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Cronant
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 17,556
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Post by Cronant on Apr 30, 2012 9:01:41 GMT -5
Well why would I care about Lesnar if he's already there from day 1? If I know ahead of time he's not going to lose for months if at all why care? Just saying, this "Why should I care" can be used in nearly every situation. If people are going to continually say that because Cena won then people will say that for Lesnar winning. Except, I already illustrated to you EXACTLY how to make people care about Brock winning, but you chose not to acknowledge it because it deflates your "Why should I care is applicable everywhere" argument. Cena losing was the right thing to do, because then you show him gearing up for the comeback, where he will get his revenge. I've also said why Cena winning would make people care too. You're ignoring that because things have to go one way. Again, there's more than a few ways this could go, and there's alot of interesting options. To just brush it off and think this has to be some stock "Hero gets revenge" plot is moronic. Superman beat Doomsday, just died in the process. This is similar. |
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The Doctor
Dennis Stamp
New teeth. That's weird.
Posts: 4,952
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Post by The Doctor on Apr 30, 2012 9:02:33 GMT -5
I find it remarkable how people can't fathom anything other than one method of booking.
Of course Lesnar winning would have a clear path but him losing isn't the end at all. There is a lot of ways to go.
The man lost his first MMA match but came back and was accepted as a sensation. One loss followed by some character development for him and we have the makings of some great booking. And, like I keep saying, he looked like a beast in this match and it was only arrogance that stopped him winning. He doesn't look weak he just looks like he thought winning was a given. Now he knows it isn't and has reason to WANT to go on a wrecking spree.
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Post by joebob27 on Apr 30, 2012 9:02:49 GMT -5
Not really, Cena's already done it. And "does something heinous" is what I'm talking about, entertainment has reared its ugly head. I mean if he kills Apollo Creed in wrestling terms, does anyone actually believe Cena is losing THAT encounter? You make it sound like Cena didn't have a problem with Lesnar. The lasting impression of the match was that Cena got f***ed up and had to leave because of it. THIS is why the booking of the match was the important thing. He still won. He was f***ed up into oblivion, on a losing streak to the point that he lost to Albert channeling Beverly Hills Ninja, he lost the biggest match of his career because he was being a dick, he got beat within an inch of his life by an intruder from another "sport" who claims to be legitimate and is a legitimate former champion in that sport, and guess what, he still won. How can you create more drama than that, is Brock going to feel up Cena's wifes tits and say that John Cena Sr stiffs indy workers? |
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Post by xCompackx on Apr 30, 2012 9:03:08 GMT -5
I'm really curious as to how many people complaining about the outcome of the match actually saw it.
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Post by joebob27 on Apr 30, 2012 9:04:43 GMT -5
I find it remarkable how people can't fathom anything other than one method of booking. Of course Lesnar winning would have a clear path but him losing isn't the end at all. There is a lot of ways to go. The man lost his first MMA match but came back and was accepted as a sensation. One loss followed by some character development for him and we have the makings of some great booking. And, like I keep saying, he looked like a beast in this match and it was only arrogance that stopped him winning. He doesn't look weak he just looks like he thought winning was a given. Now he knows it isn't and has reason to WANT to go on a wrecking spree. You're trying to compare a sport where you cannot control the outcome to one you can, which automatically invalidates that. I would guess that Dana White wanted Lesnar to rip Mir's arm off and beat him with it. It didn't happen so he had to be rebuilt. This is not a shoot. Cena should not have won, end of story, he didn't have to win, and there are multiple copouts to pull that one off without him "losing". |
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The Doctor
Dennis Stamp
New teeth. That's weird.
Posts: 4,952
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Post by The Doctor on Apr 30, 2012 9:05:25 GMT -5
I'm really curious as to how many people complaining about the outcome of the match actually saw it. True. Anyone who saw it would be able to see that Brock Lesnar came across as an animal who was only derailed by his own arrogance effectively. It seems people think all losses are the exact same. In wrestling they really, really aren't. |
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JFreeman
Tommy Wiseau
500 Hours in MS Paint
Posts: 89
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Post by JFreeman on Apr 30, 2012 9:05:47 GMT -5
Can we at least change the title to be neutral, I don't see why someone should get to use a generic Raw thread for their own agenda >.>
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Apr 30, 2012 9:06:24 GMT -5
Normally the best course of action is to wait to see what happens next, but WWE have lost those privileges in the eyes of a lot of fans because of consistently disappointing endings to hot angles in recent years. Pretty much. At this point, anyone who spouts off "wait and see" INSTANTLY has their argument go down in my eyes. And that applies to wrestling across the board, not just WWE. Generally speaking, "wait and see" is just code for "The screwed the pooch, MAYBE they'll do better next time?" Well, maybe it's not even necessarily about having patience with some people- perhaps they're just happy Cena won in an exciting match, and/or maybe they really couldn't care less about how strong Lesnar looks down the road. I can see some fans choosing to enjoy it in the moment. |
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Post by joebob27 on Apr 30, 2012 9:07:05 GMT -5
R-Truth beat the piss out of Cena for crying out loud, and I guess he was undone with his arrogance when he showed up little Jimmy.  Everyone beats the piss out of Cena except the Rock because the Rock couldn't carry the match. I'm sure it was an unbelieveable match but it doesn't mean it's a good finish. People can't separate the two, the match is irrelevant to the finish if the finish is not good. |
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Cronant
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 17,556
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Post by Cronant on Apr 30, 2012 9:07:40 GMT -5
You make it sound like Cena didn't have a problem with Lesnar. The lasting impression of the match was that Cena got f***ed up and had to leave because of it. THIS is why the booking of the match was the important thing. He still won. He was f***ed up into oblivion, on a losing streak to the point that he lost to Albert channeling Beverly Hills Ninja, he lost the biggest match of his career because he was being a dick, he got beat within an inch of his life by an intruder from another "sport" who claims to be legitimate and is a legitimate former champion in that sport, and guess what, he still won. Yes, they built up drama for this match. Shocking. This isn't the same guy that lost to Tensai or Rock. That was the point of the Edge speech. He showed up for real. My point still stands. There's multiple ways they could have played this out and they chose a solid one. They booked the match so well that that this thing has plenty of legs whenever they want to continue it. I don't think you can even debate that at this point. Cena/Lesnar II will be big whenever they decide to do it. THATS how good it was done. |
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Post by memphis25 on Apr 30, 2012 9:08:14 GMT -5
I'm really curious as to how many people complaining about the outcome of the match actually saw it. I've watched it twice and hate the move to have him lose. The match was good but bad for long term business. WWE had a premium assets and lessen its value. Its like they got a Bentley and took it off road racing. Its still a Bentley and with a little work could look good again but its doesn't have its maximum value anymore. |
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The Doctor
Dennis Stamp
New teeth. That's weird.
Posts: 4,952
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Post by The Doctor on Apr 30, 2012 9:08:18 GMT -5
I find it remarkable how people can't fathom anything other than one method of booking. Of course Lesnar winning would have a clear path but him losing isn't the end at all. There is a lot of ways to go. The man lost his first MMA match but came back and was accepted as a sensation. One loss followed by some character development for him and we have the makings of some great booking. And, like I keep saying, he looked like a beast in this match and it was only arrogance that stopped him winning. He doesn't look weak he just looks like he thought winning was a given. Now he knows it isn't and has reason to WANT to go on a wrecking spree. You're trying to compare a sport where you cannot control the outcome to one you can, which automatically invalidates that. I would guess that Dana White wanted Lesnar to rip Mir's arm off and beat him with it. It didn't happen so he had to be rebuilt. This is not a shoot. Cena should not have won, end of story, he didn't have to win, and there are multiple copouts to pull that one off without him "losing". I'm comparing it because if someone can comprehensively recover from a big loss in REAL LIFE then it can happen even easier in a story. One loss is not the end. Not in real life, not in wrestling. |
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Post by xCompackx on Apr 30, 2012 9:10:17 GMT -5
You're trying to compare a sport where you cannot control the outcome to one you can, which automatically invalidates that. I would guess that Dana White wanted Lesnar to rip Mir's arm off and beat him with it. It didn't happen so he had to be rebuilt. This is not a shoot. Cena should not have won, end of story, he didn't have to win, and there are multiple copouts to pull that one off without him "losing". I'm comparing it because if someone can comprehensively recover from a big loss in REAL LIFE then it can happen even easier in a story. One loss is not the end. Not in real life, not in wrestling. This is really just the day after Wrestlemania all over again with The Rock winning. People aren't even waiting until after Raw to see where it leads to start getting upset over it. |
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helped $lim jinx NXT. Woops
