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Post by joebob27 on Apr 30, 2012 9:11:16 GMT -5
You're trying to compare a sport where you cannot control the outcome to one you can, which automatically invalidates that. I would guess that Dana White wanted Lesnar to rip Mir's arm off and beat him with it. It didn't happen so he had to be rebuilt. This is not a shoot. Cena should not have won, end of story, he didn't have to win, and there are multiple copouts to pull that one off without him "losing". I'm comparing it because if someone can comprehensively recover from a big loss in REAL LIFE then it can happen even easier in a story. One loss is not the end. Not in real life, not in wrestling. But you have limited assets to feed to him in order to do that. 3, probably, to be exact, unless Taker is going to work 2 matches this year, or beating Trips has any actual value to it anymore. And one of the 3 is Sheamus which would be pretty damn convoluted to pull off, and would involve him dropping his title beforehand. |
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The Doctor
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Post by The Doctor on Apr 30, 2012 9:11:49 GMT -5
R-Truth beat the piss out of Cena for crying out loud, and I guess he was undone with his arrogance when he showed up little Jimmy.  Everyone beats the piss out of Cena except the Rock because the Rock couldn't carry the match. I'm sure it was an unbelieveable match but it doesn't mean it's a good finish. People can't separate the two, the match is irrelevant to the finish if the finish is not good. The level of beating Cena took was different than any other examples. Lesnar was genuinely and very well sold as a total beast. And, like I said, a beast who now has reason to care is much scarier in my eyes. And I absolutely disagree with your last point. A match can tell a completely different story than the result would suggest. Especially in wrestling. All losses are not the same. |
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Post by Red Impact on Apr 30, 2012 9:12:55 GMT -5
While that's true, it greatly depends on the type of villain. If we're looking at Christian or Barrett or Bryan, then that's totally fine, they're the type of guys who will be conniving and cheat on their way to the top, so seeing them gradually become more and more of a threat works. But that doesn't work that well when the villain is meant to be a monster, which is what Lesnar is supposed to be. A monster is less threatening after they've lost, and Lesnar has lost. It was the same with UFC too, buyrates for PPV's that he was the main even dropped once he stopped being dominant. People wanted to see him destroy his opponents and wanted to see if anyone would be able to stand up and beat him. Once cracks began to show, they were lost. It think it works great when the villain is supposed to be a monster. The fact that he's pissed now and won't play around like he did with Cena only makes it better. He was truly scary and will still be that way, even moreso if he's after something he didn't get. But my problem with that is, how is scary Brock going to differ from cocky Brock? Last night showed that cocky Brock dominates and shrugs off anything that doesn't involve a steel chain. Last night showed that cocky Brock could beat someone down so bad that fans cringed and said that the match should have stopped. As this isn't a movie, we know that scary Brock isnt' going to kill anyone, so there's really nothing to amplify. You can't really beat Cena down more than he was beaten last night, unless Cena was lying about taking time off because of how badly he was injured. Any rematch with Cena can't make Brock look more dangerous than he did last night, because he demolished Cena the entire match until a steel chain got involved. So the only difference would either make Brock look weaker by having it be a more even match, or by having him look just as strong, but not bump the ref and pinning Cena. |
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The Doctor
Dennis Stamp
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Posts: 4,952
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Post by The Doctor on Apr 30, 2012 9:15:38 GMT -5
I'm comparing it because if someone can comprehensively recover from a big loss in REAL LIFE then it can happen even easier in a story. One loss is not the end. Not in real life, not in wrestling. But you have limited assets to feed to him in order to do that. 3, probably, to be exact, unless Taker is going to work 2 matches this year, or beating Trips has any actual value to it anymore. And one of the 3 is Sheamus which would be pretty damn convoluted to pull off, and would involve him dropping his title beforehand. Randy Orton, CM Punk, Triple-H, Sheamus and maybe a few handicap matches or something. Just off the top of my head. All of those some of them more than once all resulting in Lesnar, once again, looking like a murderer and once again Lesnar vs a returning Cena looks exciting. Because now we have a battle of near-equals. And that is where money comes from; not knowing what's going to happen. Admittedly my plan hinges upon good booking. But it is, none the less, one example of a way it could work very well from here on in. |
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Post by joebob27 on Apr 30, 2012 9:17:44 GMT -5
It think it works great when the villain is supposed to be a monster. The fact that he's pissed now and won't play around like he did with Cena only makes it better. He was truly scary and will still be that way, even moreso if he's after something he didn't get. But my problem with that is, how is scary Brock going to differ from cocky Brock? Last night showed that cocky Brock dominates and shrugs off anything that doesn't involve a steel chain. Last night showed that cocky Brock could beat someone down so bad that fans cringed and said that the match should have stopped. As this isn't a movie, we know that scary Brock isnt' going to kill anyone, so there's really nothing to amplify. You can't really beat Cena down more than he was beaten last night, unless Cena was lying about taking time off because of how badly he was injured. Any rematch with Cena can't make Brock look more dangerous than he did last night, because he demolished Cena the entire match until a steel chain got involved. So the only difference would either make Brock look weaker by having it be a more even match, or by having him look just as strong, but not bump the ref and pinning Cena. That's what I'm trying to say, it's hard to make Brock look any stronger and it's hard to make Cena look any weaker. And yet the result was Cena won. They cannot build any more athletic disadvantage than that. Which means now you go the Jericho/Punk route with it. I get what people are saying about having a different direction with it, but this is a guy who is working limited dates, they are not going to do some long, drawn out, protracted give and take thing. I would guess no more than 3 matches and 3 is probably pushing it. So your end result is probably 1) inconclusive, Brock goes over last, which is a weird story to tell, or 2) Cena wins again. |
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JFreeman
Tommy Wiseau
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Post by JFreeman on Apr 30, 2012 9:29:04 GMT -5
>this thread  |
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The Doctor
Dennis Stamp
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Post by The Doctor on Apr 30, 2012 9:30:56 GMT -5
A couple of things,
a) I think Brock could fight at every PPV conceivably. He is on limited dates but not THAT limited. He won't be at house shows or every Raw, but according to all sources he is contracted for enough dates that he may very well work every PPV until WM.
b) I don't think it is out of the question for Brock to win a blow off match. My reasoning for that is that any blow off match between them will likely be BEFORE Lesnar's WM feud. So Lesnar needs to win that one more than he needed this one. And Cena then has a reason to try to break the streak, for example.
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Post by Giul T. on Apr 30, 2012 9:51:07 GMT -5
So to talk to talk about RAW, I hope that AW and the tag champs kick off the tag division that started a few weeks ago on Smackdown with the signing of Titus and Darren. The first snag though I can see is that the only face tag team that has any credibility right now is Khali and Show, and more than a few easy face tag partners are sitting on the shelf (Bourne and Gabriel). Santino and Ryder might work though, but I thought Miz was going to take the US to free Santino up.
Also, who might be lined up for Santino next since he has beaten almost everyone outside of Jericho and faces.
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BigJerichool222
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
THE BIG DOG!
#NotInMySalad
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Post by BigJerichool222 on Apr 30, 2012 9:53:22 GMT -5
Perhaps...Primo & Epico refuse A.W. and then he brings out a tag team who DOES want his help. They then immediately win the Tag Titles.
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The Doctor
Dennis Stamp
New teeth. That's weird.
Posts: 4,952
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Post by The Doctor on Apr 30, 2012 9:54:24 GMT -5
Kofi and R-Truth tagged together a few times recently didn't they? Perhaps they'll get involved.
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CMWaters
Ozymandius
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Bald and busy
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Post by CMWaters on Apr 30, 2012 9:55:55 GMT -5
Also, who might be lined up for Santino next since he has beaten almost everyone outside of Jericho and faces. "Here is your winner, and the NEW United States Champion: LORD TENSAI!" |
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Post by flatsdomino on Apr 30, 2012 11:03:51 GMT -5
Why couldn't you just post in any of the twenty "Cena Beat Lesnar" discussion threads as opposed to turning the Raw thread into one before the show even starts by trying to be clever? Yeesh.
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Post by Giul T. on Apr 30, 2012 11:22:45 GMT -5
I would love to see Lord Tensai turn the US championship into the Japanese Championship or the Mist one.
Santino had that cobra mist thing too didnt he? Battle of the Mists! It could bring in a few buys with that.
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Post by mysterydriver on Apr 30, 2012 11:29:47 GMT -5
Perhaps...Primo & Epico refuse A.W. and then he brings out a tag team who DOES want his help. They then immediately win the Tag Titles. TWO IS EQUAL TO TWO! TWO IS EQUAL TO TWO! |
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BR329
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Post by BR329 on Apr 30, 2012 11:44:36 GMT -5
You know shit's going down when the RAW thread is at 6 pages and the show doesn't start for another 8 hours.
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BigWill
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Post by BigWill on Apr 30, 2012 11:47:19 GMT -5
You know s***'s going down when the RAW thread is at 6 pages and the show doesn't start for another 8 hours. That, or it'll be a massive disappointment, and we see about a dozen "Worst Raw Ever!" threads pop up. |
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Tom Turkey
Ozymandius
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Posts: 61,985
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Post by Tom Turkey on Apr 30, 2012 11:47:44 GMT -5
You know s***'s going down when the RAW thread is at 6 pages and the show doesn't start for another 8 hours. What's been the longest Raw thread prior to the show itself on these very forums? |
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Abdullah
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Post by Abdullah on Apr 30, 2012 11:53:23 GMT -5
Perhaps...Primo & Epico refuse A.W. and then he brings out a tag team who DOES want his help. They then immediately win the Tag Titles. I'm over the moon that Primo is in angle where he gets to speak and show character, so I hope they accept Washington's offer. The way the backstage segments are going, at least it seems like they might. Either way, the tag champs doing something other than just wrestle formulaic matches is a good thing. |
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Post by Andrew is Good on Apr 30, 2012 11:56:16 GMT -5
I didn't read the whole thread but basically, Cena beat the monster clean. Where does he go now? He was supposed to be this big monster running through people but the unstoppable monster was stopped. So what does it matter for someone to beat Lesnar, he was already beaten.
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Cronant
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Post by Cronant on Apr 30, 2012 11:59:41 GMT -5
I didn't read the whole thread but basically, Cena beat the monster clean. Where does he go now? He was supposed to be this big monster running through people but the unstoppable monster was stopped. So what does it matter for someone to beat Lesnar, he was already beaten. You honestly think heel Lesnar is only good for 1 loss? Didn't he lose to Angle, get pinned by Benoit, and STILL have the big Eddie match where Eddie winning was a huge deal? It was hardly clean anyway. Lesnar had him pinned for an 8 count basically. If he hadn't knocked out every ref he would have won. |
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