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Post by Ultimo Chocula on May 17, 2012 10:53:31 GMT -5
HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HAAAAAA!!! A Jigsaw led Rudo team! Yeah, that'll sell tickets! While it is different times in CHIKARA's history, Toxic Trio wasn't a terrible stable. Admittedly it had Jigsaw playing something of a "The Brain/Mastermind" Spike Dudley role to Kingston's & BlackJack's Dudley Boys. That was back when nobody showed up to Chikara shows. Nowadays people are actively involved. Jigsaw is not the guy you put on posters to get people at the door. I've said it before and I'll say it again, you can't turn people heel and expect them to get over when they flop as a face. Vin Gerard was a one time deal. It won't happen again. Stigma only worked for a few months before he got fat again. Lince Dorado was a non factor. It's not going to happen again.
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Post by mjolnir on May 17, 2012 10:57:22 GMT -5
While it is different times in CHIKARA's history, Toxic Trio wasn't a terrible stable. Admittedly it had Jigsaw playing something of a "The Brain/Mastermind" Spike Dudley role to Kingston's & BlackJack's Dudley Boys. That was back when nobody showed up to Chikara shows. Nowadays people are actively involved. Jigsaw is not the guy you put on posters to get people at the door. I've said it before and I'll say it again, you can't turn people heel and expect them to get over when they flop as a face. Vin Gerard was a one time deal. It won't happen again. Stigma only worked for a few months before he got fat again. Lince Dorado was a non factor. It's not going to happen again. I don't know. I thought Lince Dorado worked as a rudo, albeit he was heavily de-pushed during his run as a rudo in comparison to his run as a face. I think especially towards the end he was really finding his groove and that Pinkie & him were a solid team. STIGMA...well, we'll have to agree to disagree there. I thought he played his role well as the muscle/enforcer of the UnStable. Thing is, with a role like that, you don't do much besides stand there, back up the star (Vin), and wrestle. Which considering Storm's somewhat yo-yo mic skills...probably for the best.
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Post by Ultimo Chocula on May 17, 2012 11:04:48 GMT -5
That was back when nobody showed up to Chikara shows. Nowadays people are actively involved. Jigsaw is not the guy you put on posters to get people at the door. I've said it before and I'll say it again, you can't turn people heel and expect them to get over when they flop as a face. Vin Gerard was a one time deal. It won't happen again. Stigma only worked for a few months before he got fat again. Lince Dorado was a non factor. It's not going to happen again. I don't know. I thought Lince Dorado worked as a rudo, albeit he was heavily de-pushed during his run as a rudo in comparison to his run as a face. I think especially towards the end he was really finding his groove and that Pinkie & him were a solid team. STIGMA...well, we'll have to agree to disagree there. I thought he played his role well as the muscle/enforcer of the UnStable. Thing is, with a role like that, you don't do much besides stand there, back up the star (Vin), and wrestle. Which considering Storm's somewhat yo-yo mic skills...probably for the best. You bring up another Mike Quackenbush fallacy, Shane Storm. Quack gives the GEKIDO guys static because of their bad armdrags but for years his other special little guy besides Jigsaw was Shane Storm, who botched every other move he tried, including his finisher. One of the reasons why STIGMA worked for a little while was because his move set was restricted to "hit the guy" and a tombstone. Man, Quack has lost a lot of luster over the last few months.
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suben
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Posts: 617
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Post by suben on May 17, 2012 22:04:40 GMT -5
The worst thing Quack did was make the blog about "arm drags and technique". All you have to do is say they were arrogant: they came in wanting the world and expected to be handed everything. They thought they were above the basics, they thought they were above putting in the blood, sweat and tears setting up the ring and doing things all other trainees/wrestlers do in wrestling promotions. They wanted to come in, be shot straight to the top and be stars instead of doing it the right way: with hard work, time and dedication. Quack realized this and subsequently, realizing they weren't there to learn, booted them. So they sought out someone who WOULD teach them what they wanted, someone who held a grudge against Quack and learned "the wrong way" from him. 17 didn't teach them the basics, he didn't teach them the right way, he only taught them the shortcuts, the wrong way and he used their hatred towards Quack to make them into brutal machines who would help him in his grudge by mauling and destroying the rest of the Chikara roster. It's the classic martial arts movie set up. Quack and the Chikara technicos are the good guys. The guys who did things the right way. GEKIDO are the dojo busters, the Cobra Kai, the guys who seek only fame for themselves while hurting their opponents and proving their superiority. They're the Arrogant Kung Fu Guy. But instead Quack wrote a blog saying they sucked and couldn't hack it and can't do a proper arm drag which was the wrong way to go about things I believe.
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Post by kingoftheindies on May 17, 2012 22:26:13 GMT -5
I don't know. I thought Lince Dorado worked as a rudo, albeit he was heavily de-pushed during his run as a rudo in comparison to his run as a face. I think especially towards the end he was really finding his groove and that Pinkie & him were a solid team. STIGMA...well, we'll have to agree to disagree there. I thought he played his role well as the muscle/enforcer of the UnStable. Thing is, with a role like that, you don't do much besides stand there, back up the star (Vin), and wrestle. Which considering Storm's somewhat yo-yo mic skills...probably for the best. You bring up another Mike Quackenbush fallacy, Shane Storm. Quack gives the GEKIDO guys static because of their bad armdrags but for years his other special little guy besides Jigsaw was Shane Storm, who botched every other move he tried, including his finisher. One of the reasons why STIGMA worked for a little while was because his move set was restricted to "hit the guy" and a tombstone. Man, Quack has lost a lot of luster over the last few months. I think it's just easy now to pick on Quack. A lot of criticisms are legit though.
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on May 18, 2012 0:34:05 GMT -5
You bring up another Mike Quackenbush fallacy, Shane Storm. Quack gives the GEKIDO guys static because of their bad armdrags but for years his other special little guy besides Jigsaw was Shane Storm, who botched every other move he tried, including his finisher. One of the reasons why STIGMA worked for a little while was because his move set was restricted to "hit the guy" and a tombstone. Man, Quack has lost a lot of luster over the last few months. I think it's just easy now to pick on Quack. A lot of criticisms are legit though. In ring, Quack is still one of my favorite guys from a technical standpoint. But, as a booker, the man has his flaws. I dunno. I jumped on board Chikara in 2006, and NEVER had a problem up until 2011. I don't know what changed last year, but suddenly, the rose-colored glasses are off.
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Post by The Spelunker! on May 18, 2012 1:15:20 GMT -5
That's pretty easy, why 2011 was such an off year.
1: This is probably the biggest thing, the injuries. Having injuries to Ophidian, Brodie Lee, Sugar Dunkerton, Amasis, Quack, Johnny Gargano and more really makes it rough to continue to run a promotion.
2: Expanding into new markets. Chikara toured out further than they ever had before. In order to make sure that the cards would get local attention, (not everyone is in the Chikarmy and it's not like anyone in Chikara is really a household name...) they booked a lot of local guys/guest stars. It detracts from the overall year, but it got people to check out the product that otherwise wouldn't. They have no idea who Dasher Hatfield and Ultramantis Black are, but they know their local guys that were booked on the show! Or they know Colt/The Young Bucks/Eddie Edwards/(insert other guest star here)
3: Losing Claudio to the WWE. Claudio was the centerpiece of the BDK, and losing him meant that they were losing one of their veterans, Indy draws, story centerpieces, and trainers. That's a lot to try and transition from.
So while I agree that 2011 was definitely not their best year, at least most of the reasons are pretty clear.
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Steveweiser
Dalek
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Post by Steveweiser on May 18, 2012 7:24:27 GMT -5
"It's Not Happening" - LOL. Tickets go on sale tomorrow in Easton, there will be the 5th Annual Fan Conclave as a part of the festivities, and the first team will be announced LIVE during "Chikarasaurus Rex: How to Hatch a Dinosaur" on iPPV.
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Steveweiser
Dalek
Mickie Mickie You're So Fine... Hey Mickie!
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Post by Steveweiser on May 18, 2012 7:25:54 GMT -5
New show...
A Special Charity Event at First Energy Stadium Sunday, August 12th Reading, PA
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Steveweiser
Dalek
Mickie Mickie You're So Fine... Hey Mickie!
THE GRAPS
Posts: 50,249
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Post by Steveweiser on May 18, 2012 7:32:28 GMT -5
5/18/2012: Look! I'm a man of action. Not much for talk. But GEKIDO, someone needs to slap some verbal sense into you. Don't you ever compare me to the trash that turned their back on CHIKARA in the past. Enough with your mind games. "It's just a matter of time" you said 'til I turn my back on Quack? On the guy who trained me? You boys really are simple. I remember some of you. I remember that day you walked into the Wrestle Factory. Like a group of overprivileged children. Like we owed you something. I remember laughing with Kingston and Akuma watching you crumble minutes in warm-ups. Bet that made you mad, huh? Or is this over the time one of you was puking in the garbage can because you were pushed a little too hard? Every single one of us in this locker room paid their dues. Not only did we pay them, we pay them again and again and we are proud to do so. That is our badge of honor. It makes me sick to think you posers strut around like you're too good for that. You afraid to break a sweat? Do your part? Man up bit? Do you know what the guys training at Gimnasio Latino go through every single weekday? You ever hear of the Hart Dungeon? Let alone what I've seen first-hand in the Japanese system. Those guys earn their stripes. They earn the right to be called a Professional Wrestler. Not you - a bunch of marshmallow, wannabe wrestlers who spit on the names of all the greats who did this before us! And you spit on the name of the Wrestle Factory - the place that took a bunch of outcasts, rejects, and made them into a family. MY FAMILY. You call us "lucky." Really? Then you don't know hard work when you see it. Your blogs make that much obvious. CHIKARA got to the level we are at today because of hard work: blood, sweat and tears! Not because we got "lucky." You want to say you're more naturally gifted than me? That's fine. Maybe that was the case. But there comes a point where your lack of devotion, you're lazy attitude, your self-entitlement let me surpass you. Does that make you bitter? I bet it does. Tell me, when The Colony was over in Japan, or Europe, or on live iPPV in 37 different countries...I bet you were selling out MSG with your natural gifts right? Ohhh wait...you were at the computer following the results, having some whine with your cheese and kicking yourself for giving up when the going got tough. So daydream all you want about what you could have been or done. I have more important things to do. Like become CHIKARA's first ever true GRAND SLAM champion this Sunday in Manhattan. Ya know why I can make that claim? You know why I even have an opportunity of that magnitude in front of me? It's called hard work. Look it up. Keep talking, keep dreaming. I'll keep winning. Peace out ya ham n' eggers! JIG
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Steveweiser
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Mickie Mickie You're So Fine... Hey Mickie!
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Post by Steveweiser on May 18, 2012 7:37:57 GMT -5
More Veda goodness with just over two weeks to go until Chikky Rex.
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on May 18, 2012 7:47:12 GMT -5
I kinda hate what the tecnico blogs are doing to the GEKIDO. Instead of selling them as a legit threat, the guys they're feuding with are just going "Pffft, rejects". In ring, and when GEKIDO blogs, this angle's working for me, but the face end of this is pretty lacking.
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JoDaNa1281
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Post by JoDaNa1281 on May 18, 2012 9:00:07 GMT -5
Veda Scott returns with our 3rd Chikarasaurus Rex Report.
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Steveweiser
Dalek
Mickie Mickie You're So Fine... Hey Mickie!
THE GRAPS
Posts: 50,249
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Post by Steveweiser on May 18, 2012 9:01:38 GMT -5
Dude, just two posts above...
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Post by Ultimo Chocula on May 18, 2012 9:20:37 GMT -5
"It's just a matter of time" you said 'til I turn my back on Quack? On the guy who trained me? You boys really are simple. So....The Vulture Squad never happened?
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Johnny B. Decent
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on May 18, 2012 9:23:18 GMT -5
I kinda hate what the tecnico blogs are doing to the GEKIDO. Instead of selling them as a legit threat, the guys they're feuding with are just going "Pffft, rejects". In ring, and when GEKIDO blogs, this angle's working for me, but the face end of this is pretty lacking. To be fair, I feel that way about most Technico blogs, if only because the majority of them are a bunch of dorks.
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Post by mjolnir on May 18, 2012 9:26:40 GMT -5
"It's just a matter of time" you said 'til I turn my back on Quack? On the guy who trained me? You boys really are simple. So....The Vulture Squad never happened? That's exactly what I was going to post. It not only rings a little hollow for the guy who jumped from CHIKARA to be saying this but to say that too. As if he never did turn on Quack in the first place. Also, again, I say his spiel is sounding rudo heavy. I think, Spanky, it's harking back to the comparison Suben made. When this first started, had total kung-fu movie vibe to it to me. And it even had a staple of that story arc, the master being broken, Quack, which usually leads to his pupils banding together. Problem is, to me, they've won alot of their matches, and lost a few they honestly shouldn't have, and broke Quackenbush. But all the tecs still scoff at them. Why I think they have to be building towards something with this. Even if it's something really bad they do themselves, like seriously hurting somebody. Something that gives the good guys the figurative kick in the pants and go "Oh shit", wising up to the fact they've been underselling these guys. In that respect, it's still a bit like the Vin Gerard genesis storyline. Even when he was hurting & unmasking guys, tecs were still scoffing at him, Colony was putting a garbage can on his head, ect. It wasn't until STIGMA joined him & he wormed his way into being YLC that people started going "Oh crap" over him in the locker room.
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Johnny B. Decent
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on May 18, 2012 9:28:46 GMT -5
So....The Vulture Squad never happened? That's exactly what I was going to post. It not only rings a little hollow for the guy who jumped from CHIKARA to be saying this but to say that too. As if he never did turn on Quack in the first place. Also, again, I say his spiel is sounding rudo heavy. I think, Spanky, it's harking back to the comparison Suben made. When this first started, had total kung-fu movie vibe to it to me. And it even had a staple of that story arc, the master being broken, Quack, which usually leads to his pupils banding together. Problem is, to me, they've won alot of their matches, and lost a few they honestly shouldn't have, and broke Quackenbush. But all the tecs still scoff at them. Why I think they have to be building towards something with this. Even if it's something really bad they do themselves, like seriously hurting somebody. Something that gives the good guys the figurative kick in the pants and go "Oh s***", wising up to the fact they've been underselling these guys. In that respect, it's still a bit like the Vin Gerard genesis storyline. Even when he was hurting & unmasking guys, tecs were still scoffing at him, Colony was putting a garbage can on his head, ect. It wasn't until STIGMA joined him & he wormed his way into being YLC that people started going "Oh crap" over him in the locker room. Also, again to be fair, the most of them are rather stupid, too.
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Post by Ultimo Chocula on May 18, 2012 9:34:34 GMT -5
That could be the other reason why this angle is working for me other than it's going nowhere. The technicos are coming off unself aware on a staggering level. I just can't get behind a group of people who claim the enemy are a bunch of clowns and scrubs when THEY KEEP GETTING BEAT BY THEM!
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Post by mjolnir on May 18, 2012 9:39:55 GMT -5
That could be the other reason why this angle is working for me other than it's going nowhere. The technicos are coming off unself aware on a staggering level. I just can't get behind a group of people who claim the enemy are a bunch of clowns and scrubs when THEY KEEP GETTING BEAT BY THEM! Hey, it worked for the Colony when they were feuding with Vin.
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