HBL
Unicron
This is what yoga does to you.
Posts: 3,196
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Post by HBL on May 12, 2012 14:44:36 GMT -5
Besides, if it were based soley on in-ring skills, he's still outclassed by Bret Hart. No. I really don't care if it's hype or not,in my book,Shawn Michaels will be the greatest wrestler ever,and that sums this up: There can't be a ''best ever'' who is accepted by everyone. Many people have different wrestlers that they consider to be the best,and mine is Shawn. |
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Post by rapidfire187 on May 12, 2012 14:46:56 GMT -5
He's the best ever in my opinion. That includes every wrestler I've seen from around the world. There are some that are more athletic, more charismatic, more technically gifted, better on the mic...but nobody wraps it all together as nicely as HBK, and nobody put on quality matches as consistently as him.
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Marty McFry
Don Corleone
"She was mine before she was yours.... Wooooo"
Posts: 1,657
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Post by Marty McFry on May 12, 2012 14:50:11 GMT -5
1.Misawa 2.Kobashi 3.Kawada 4.Mutoh 5.Akiyama 6.Taue 7. Tenryu 8.Liger 9. Hashimoto 10.Chono That's just when he was wrestling and I didn't even put Vader in there (though he should be in all honesty) because most only remember him from his WWE/WWF run which admittedly was pretty bad. On top of those names you also have Inoki , Baba , Jumbo , Hansen and guys like Takayama , Sasaki , Nagata and Tenzan who are somewhat debatable. I love HBK , I adore the man. He was an all time great worker , top thirty? No doubt but the greatest of all time in-ring ? No!!! How? Misawa and Kobashi both Invented more moves then Shawn! Literally what could Shawn do that Misawa couldn't or hadn't? Those guys made Vader look like a million bucks yet Shawn could barley work with the guy. Vader who mind you , could legitimately be the greatest big man of all time or is only perhap second to the undertaker. Hell , How many companies did Shawn hold the top belt in? The WWE? Vader alone held it in WCW , New Japan and All Japan Muto held the NWA World Title , The IWGP Title and The AJPW Title. You want to go by Meltzer? ( I know some don't trust the guy but he's still pretty damn respected) We can do that to , Shawn has had Four matches of the year to Misawa's four and Kobashi's five yet both Misawa and Kobashi have been wrestler of the year three times to HBK's NONE and don't even get me started on Five Star Matches. Seriously HBK could be the greatest WWE wrestler of all time , The Greatest Wrestlemania wrestler of all time and the greatest Royal Rumble winner of all time but pound for pound the best in ring worker? No. This isn't me having a hard on for Japanese wrestling , I'll admit that Baba wasn't as good as Taker or that right now hands down far and away Daniel Bryan is a better wrestler then KENTA and Marufuji or that see a Brock Lesnar match then a Nagata one but I will not sit here and say that HBK is the greatest in ring performer of all time because there's no objective way to watch HBK wrestle and say that. Now I'm out because this thread is probably going to devolve quickly into the classic IWC Feud of Japanese Wrestling Vs American where both sides refuse to come down off their high horse and admit that both have their own negatives and positives and that's it possible to enjoy both for what they are. I started reading this with an eye-roll and ended it agreeing. Well said. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2012 14:56:48 GMT -5
I can't stand the argument that "wrestling is about making MONEY. Whoever draws the most is automatically the best." Just because they put it in those Wrestlecrap books doesn't make it true.
It's an artform, its not all about who makes the most money, just like it isn't in music. These people would say "Michael Jackson is the greatest musician ever. The IMC says Prince is so great, but he couldn't draw for shit after Sign o' the Times!"
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,706 
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Post by The Ichi on May 12, 2012 14:58:08 GMT -5
I can't stand the argument that "wrestling is about making MONEY. Whoever draws the most is automatically the best." Just because they put it in those Wrestlecrap books doesn't make it true. It's an artform, its not all about who makes the most money, just like it isn't in music. These people would say "Michael Jackson is the greatest musician ever. The IMC says Prince is so great, but he couldn't draw for s*** after Sign o' the Times!" This. It's like saying that Will Smith is a better actor than Daniel Day Lewis. |
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on May 12, 2012 15:09:52 GMT -5
1.Misawa 2.Kobashi 3.Kawada 4.Mutoh 5.Akiyama 6.Taue 7. Tenryu 8.Liger 9. Hashimoto 10.Chono That's just when he was wrestling and I didn't even put Vader in there (though he should be in all honesty) because most only remember him from his WWE/WWF run which admittedly was pretty bad. On top of those names you also have Inoki , Baba , Jumbo , Hansen and guys like Takayama , Sasaki , Nagata and Tenzan who are somewhat debatable. I love HBK , I adore the man. He was an all time great worker , top thirty? No doubt but the greatest of all time in-ring ? No!!! How? Misawa and Kobashi both Invented more moves then Shawn! Literally what could Shawn do that Misawa couldn't or hadn't? Those guys made Vader look like a million bucks yet Shawn could barley work with the guy. Vader who mind you , could legitimately be the greatest big man of all time or is only perhap second to the undertaker. Hell , How many companies did Shawn hold the top belt in? The WWE? Vader alone held it in WCW , New Japan and All Japan Muto held the NWA World Title , The IWGP Title and The AJPW Title. You want to go by Meltzer? ( I know some don't trust the guy but he's still pretty damn respected) We can do that to , Shawn has had Four matches of the year to Misawa's four and Kobashi's five yet both Misawa and Kobashi have been wrestler of the year three times to HBK's NONE and don't even get me started on Five Star Matches. Seriously HBK could be the greatest WWE wrestler of all time , The Greatest Wrestlemania wrestler of all time and the greatest Royal Rumble winner of all time but pound for pound the best in ring worker? No. This isn't me having a hard on for Japanese wrestling , I'll admit that Baba wasn't as good as Taker or that right now hands down far and away Daniel Bryan is a better wrestler then KENTA and Marufuji or that see a Brock Lesnar match then a Nagata one but I will not sit here and say that HBK is the greatest in ring performer of all time because there's no objective way to watch HBK wrestle and say that. Now I'm out because this thread is probably going to devolve quickly into the classic IWC Feud of Japanese Wrestling Vs American where both sides refuse to come down off their high horse and admit that both have their own negatives and positives and that's it possible to enjoy both for what they are. [racist] But nobody cares about those Japs.[/racist] In all seriousness, I'd love to see what HBK could have done in Japan. Aside from an odd cameo in FMW I don't think he was ever active over there. Certainly not at any point during his prime. |
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Post by T.J. "the Crippler" Stevens on May 12, 2012 15:11:37 GMT -5
The guy has benefited from more manufactured hype than any wrestler I've seen in the 30 years that I've been a fan. Don't get me wrong, he's very good and probably one of the top ten performers ever, but he's also always had the machine behind him working overtime. Did he work hard? Of course. But he's also had more support and more company men working hard to protect him and sell him to the masses than anyone in history. Alot of his big moments, especially at the beginning, were forced upon us and so overtly created to"make" him the man that they're hard to ignore as anything other than manufactured hype. Alot of guys have talent. Shawn Michaels had talent AND the hype machine dialed up to 11. He's benefited greatly from both.
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Post by Been burned too many times on May 12, 2012 15:18:22 GMT -5
He's one of my favorites. No such things as 'greatest' because everyones opinion of the 'greatest' will of course differ greatly.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on May 12, 2012 15:41:19 GMT -5
Neither. Greatest Ever, especially in wrestling is purely a matter of opinion and Shawn Michaels has certainly done enough for me to be considered the best. |
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on May 12, 2012 17:22:00 GMT -5
NOTE: I was joking when I called them Japs. Apparently one of you took that seriously and reported me for racist flaming.
Sorry if I offended someone.
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Post by celticjobber on May 12, 2012 17:27:56 GMT -5
I'm a big HBK fan, but Bret Hart was better in almost every regard.
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Sam Punk
Hank Scorpio
Own Nothing, Be Happy
Posts: 6,322
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Post by Sam Punk on May 12, 2012 18:59:36 GMT -5
I'm a big HBK fan, but Bret Hart was better in almost every regard. The man tells it like it is. |
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Celgress
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Superior One
Posts: 19,009
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Post by Celgress on May 12, 2012 19:20:33 GMT -5
Hulk Hogan is the greatest ever, in terms of star power, charisma, pop-culture fame etc... But Michaels is IMO the most talented in-ring performer This, though Kurt Angle is his prime was a close second imo. |
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on May 13, 2012 0:03:17 GMT -5
The guy has benefited from more manufactured hype than any wrestler I've seen in the 30 years that I've been a fan. Don't get me wrong, he's very good and probably one of the top ten performers ever, but he's also always had the machine behind him working overtime. Did he work hard? Of course. But he's also had more support and more company men working hard to protect him and sell him to the masses than anyone in history. Alot of his big moments, especially at the beginning, were forced upon us and so overtly created to"make" him the man that they're hard to ignore as anything other than manufactured hype. Alot of guys have talent. Shawn Michaels had talent AND the hype machine dialed up to 11. He's benefited greatly from both. I agree with a lot of the sentiment of this post but also want to point out that Shawn is probably third on the list of the hype machine crafting his history behind Hogan and Austin. That's why all greatest lists have those two at the top like wrestling only ever mattered in the Eighties and Attitude era and no time prior. |
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Post by mauled on May 13, 2012 1:26:04 GMT -5
Alot of his big moments, especially at the beginning, were forced upon us and so overtly created to"make" him the man that they're hard to ignore as anything other than manufactured hype. . What you say is interesting could you give a couple examples of those big moments at the start. I know Vince's man crush and being part of the Clique helped but those are not big moments People talked about drawing but if you look at it he main evented 4 wrestlemanias (thats not counting all the other ppv's) in a row before he had his back injury. To put that into context the Rock only did 5 (not including 28) and 4 for Austin. Even WM 13 (where Shawn would have been in the title match before he lost his smile) where he does not wrestle they literally stop the title match so he and Bret can yell at each other for a bit. As for being subjective about whose best yeah it is but put it another way if people were to put there top 10 fave matches out there how many would not I repeat not have an HBK name on it ? |
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
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Fed. Up.
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Post by Bub (BLM) on May 13, 2012 1:39:05 GMT -5
To me HBK is one of the greatest. There isn't a match I didn't like from him. Michaels couldn't draw ratings to save his life in his time on top of the WWF. This statement just pisses me off. The only people that needs to be concern about ratings is wwe not the fans. Who gives a f*** about ratings? So you're pissed off that I pointed out a fact, and because you love Shawn Michaels you think that fans shouldn't ever mention ratings. Got it. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2012 3:43:20 GMT -5
There isn't a greatest of all time, imo. Too many amazing wrestlers, too many time periods and promotions to consider, and pro wrestling cannot be quantified and measured like an actual sport.
He's an amazing, once in a generation performer. Doesn't make him the best ever but he deserves inclusion on any sort of "greatest ever" list. Since pro wrestling requires more than one person, I think it's more interesting to list who had the best matches together, who really brought out the best in each other, than coming up with who was the best of all time.
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Post by Jacob Lee on May 13, 2012 5:09:32 GMT -5
1.Misawa 2.Kobashi 3.Kawada 4.Mutoh 5.Akiyama 6.Taue 7. Tenryu 8.Liger 9. Hashimoto 10.Chono I'm a huge fan of Japanese wrestling, but this is kind of a over the top list. MAYBE you could make the case for Misawa being better than Shawn. Even the biggest Japanese wrestling fans will tell you that Shawn's body of work was better than that of Chono and several other guys on that list. |
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on May 13, 2012 5:47:58 GMT -5
People talked about drawing but if you look at it he main evented 4 wrestlemanias (thats not counting all the other ppv's) in a row before he had his back injury. To put that into context the Rock only did 5 (not including 28) and 4 for Austin. Even WM 13 (where Shawn would have been in the title match before he lost his smile) where he does not wrestle they literally stop the title match so he and Bret can yell at each other for a bit. I only count 2 Manias in a row main evented by HBK. Wrestlemanias 11 (and even then that Mania was all about LT vs Bam Bam) and 12. He wasn't on the card for 13, so that doesn't count. While Shawn did main event 14, the focus of that Mania was Tyson and Austin, HBK was an afterthought. I hate the Mr Wrestlemania hype. To me Hogan is Mr Wrestlemania. Look at how many Manias are built around Hogan's matches. Hogan is Mania, without him, it doesn't take off. |
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Post by The Tee Why on May 13, 2012 10:14:25 GMT -5
In my opinion, the greatest superstar of all time is Stone Cold Steve Austin
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