Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 14, 2012 14:54:10 GMT -5
He's right up there. There can't be one single "GOAT" because there are so many different factors, but he's on the list with about at least 25 others who qualify.
|
|
Juice
El Dandy
Wrong? Oh he can tell ya about being wrong.
I'm the one who raised you from perdition.
Posts: 8,172
|
Post by Juice on May 14, 2012 14:54:26 GMT -5
Didn't Ric flair say that his son was watching HBK wrestle and he asked why Ric couldn't do what HBK does and Flair realized HBK was indeed the best? Is that a story from his book, and if not who am I confusing him with?
|
|
Jtre
Bubba Ho-Tep
Posts: 561
|
Post by Jtre on May 14, 2012 15:01:16 GMT -5
To me HBK is one of the greatest. There isn't a match I didn't like from him. This statement just pisses me off. The only people that needs to be concern about ratings is wwe not the fans. Who gives a f*** about ratings? So you're pissed off that I pointed out a fact, and because you love Shawn Michaels you think that fans shouldn't ever mention ratings. Got it. I'm not sure why you chose to word your statement as "drawing ratings," versus "drawing money," which is the term most everyone uses to talk about one's financial impact on pro wrestling. If you're using the two phrases interchangeably, then you did not state a fact. Degeneration X has probably moved more merchandise than all but a tiny few in the history of pro wrestling. Moving merchandise equals drawing money, does it not? It also should be noted that Michaels was either the headline match or co-marquee match at for Wrestlemania shows that sold roughly 300,000 tickets. Again, that has to count for something. Make no mistake, I'm not claiming Michaels to be on the level of Austin, Hogan or Rock in terms of putting dollars in promoters' pockets, but he's not exactly a scrub in that department, either. As far as the original post, I've never actually heard Michaels called the "greatest ever," only "the greatest in-ring performer ever." It might not be true, but since he is almost inarguably in the conversation, it cannot be viewed as pure hype on WWE's part. |
|
|
|
Post by Bruce Leroy on May 14, 2012 15:06:44 GMT -5
No need for the ridiculous eye rolling smiley. I was ignoring your in-ring opinions because they're just that, and I respect them. My point was that drawing is irrelevant to this discussion because no-one is claiming that HBK was a huge draw. This thread is clearly about ringwork, and many, many people feel that he was the best in that department. I was being sarcastic with the eye-roll. The thing is that the thread's about the best ever. Like others have said, having that title requires us to look ad more than ring work.. Also, when it comes to ringwork, I listed guys that could give HBK a legit run for his money. Like I said before, it ultimately boils down to opinion. We just have to agree to disagree. Touchy touchy, I just quoted him to agree, not to slight you for a different opinion.  I think in the context of it all yes HBK is the best. Bret didn't draw draw Hogan numbers, but Hogan couldn't do half of what bret or HBK did in the ring. Diesel didn't draw s***, Sid didn't Draw s***, and Flairs drawing power has faded for the past two (possibly 3) decades. HBK was still putting on 5 star classics and stealing the show main eventing wrestlemanias even in his retirement match. You know who else doesn't draw like Hogan or Stone Cold and Rock? every champion since the post attitude/beginning of the new generation. There's a lot of exceptional people who couldn't draw more than a 3.0 including Cena, Punk, HHH, Undertaker, Daniel Bryan, Brock Lesnar, Kurt Angle the list goes on and on. Furthermore as far as Japanese talent, they aint the best in the world if they haven't worked for best company in the world. I know that statement is a can of worms on these boards, but it's the truth as far as I am concerned. Guys like Muta are great and will be remembered for the right reasons, but throwing out japanese names who have never worked for NWA/WCW/WWE to an extent ECW or TNA. For one the styles are just to different, the cultures different and many top stars and excellent wrestlers spent time in Japan and were able to transcend to the major companies without any trouble. The Benoits, Guerreros, Bryan Danielson, another list that goes on and on. But the inability to connect with ALL audiences and styles around the world should keep any of them near the top of the best of all time. Again, I was being sarcastic. As for the Japanese names that I listed, Mutoh/Muta, Hashimoto, and Inoki have all worked for either NWA, WCW, WWF/WWE, or more than one combination on the list. Muta and Inoki both had title reigns, Inoki with WWF and Muta with NWA and WCW. To say that I'm throwing out names is rather ridiculous. I watch plenty of puroresu and even lucha. If we add lucha to this, I'll even argue that Mil Mascaras beats HBK out... oh, and Mil Mascaras has worked with the WWF and WCW if you wanna focus on America. Also, we're talking about the best ever, regardless of whatever company they worked for. Also, the guys that I named were not Benoits, Guerreros, or Danielsons.. even though Eddie connected in a big way with the fans. He would've been champion several times over if it wasn't for his untimely death. To say he didn't connect with the fans is ludicrous. Not to be rude, but your arguments against my stance are weak.. I didn't mention the other champions that didn't draw because they don't support my argument.. If anything, you're either getting touchy, or you suck at making a valid argument. I get it; you're a shameless HBK mark. The people are right in saying there isn't one single GOAT, but there is a lot of contention to HBK being labeled GOAT. |
|
Juice
El Dandy
Wrong? Oh he can tell ya about being wrong.
I'm the one who raised you from perdition.
Posts: 8,172
|
Post by Juice on May 14, 2012 15:20:22 GMT -5
No need for the ridiculous eye rolling smiley. I was ignoring your in-ring opinions because they're just that, and I respect them. My point was that drawing is irrelevant to this discussion because no-one is claiming that HBK was a huge draw. This thread is clearly about ringwork, and many, many people feel that he was the best in that department. I was being sarcastic with the eye-roll. The thing is that the thread's about the best ever. Like others have said, having that title requires us to look ad more than ring work.. Also, when it comes to ringwork, I listed guys that could give HBK a legit run for his money. Like I said before, it ultimately boils down to opinion. We just have to agree to disagree. Touchy touchy, I just quoted him to agree, not to slight you for a different opinion. I think in the context of it all yes HBK is the best. Bret didn't draw draw Hogan numbers, but Hogan couldn't do half of what bret or HBK did in the ring. Diesel didn't draw s***, Sid didn't Draw s***, and Flairs drawing power has faded for the past two (possibly 3) decades. HBK was still putting on 5 star classics and stealing the show main eventing wrestlemanias even in his retirement match. You know who else doesn't draw like Hogan or Stone Cold and Rock? every champion since the post attitude/beginning of the new generation. There's a lot of exceptional people who couldn't draw more than a 3.0 including Cena, Punk, HHH, Undertaker, Daniel Bryan, Brock Lesnar, Kurt Angle the list goes on and on. Furthermore as far as Japanese talent, they aint the best in the world if they haven't worked for best company in the world. I know that statement is a can of worms on these boards, but it's the truth as far as I am concerned. Guys like Muta are great and will be remembered for the right reasons, but throwing out japanese names who have never worked for NWA/WCW/WWE to an extent ECW or TNA. For one the styles are just to different, the cultures different and many top stars and excellent wrestlers spent time in Japan and were able to transcend to the major companies without any trouble. The Benoits, Guerreros, Bryan Danielson, another list that goes on and on. But the inability to connect with ALL audiences and styles around the world should keep any of them near the top of the best of all time. Again, I was being sarcastic. As for the Japanese names that I listed, Mutoh/Muta, Hashimoto, and Inoki have all worked for either NWA, WCW, WWF/WWE, or more than one combination on the list. Muta and Inoki both had title reigns, Inoki with WWF and Muta with NWA and WCW. To say that I'm throwing out names is rather ridiculous. I watch plenty of puroresu and even lucha. If we add lucha to this, I'll even argue that Mil Mascaras beats HBK out... oh, and Mil Mascaras has worked with the WWF and WCW if you wanna focus on America. Also, we're talking about the best ever, regardless of whatever company they worked for. Also, the guys that I named were not Benoits, Guerreros, or Danielsons.. even though Eddie connected in a big way with the fans. He would've been champion several times over if it wasn't for his untimely death. To say he didn't connect with the fans is ludicrous. Not to be rude, but your arguments against my stance are weak.. I didn't mention the other champions that didn't draw because they don't support my argument.. If anything, you're either getting touchy, or you suck at making a valid argument. I get it; you're a shameless HBK mark. The people are right in saying there isn't one single GOAT, but there is a lot of contention to HBK being labeled GOAT. 1) I listed benoits, Guerros, and Danielson as great wrestlers who wrestled in japan and were huge in america. Eddie and benoit both should have had even more success then they did. 2) beyond the rolling eyes at your rolling eyes and japanese wrestlers. I was done with you and moving on to my other points. Which were not weak or invalid at all. 3) if these japanese guys were so good why aren't they still talked about to this day in same breath as Shawn Michaels? Cause they shouldn't be. 4) I am not a shameless mark for anything. Simply I prefer a lot over him in many respects. the fact that he beat Y2j in their mania match irks me to this day. But you know what they had the best match on the card. Just like HBK always does. No one you mentioned ever wrestled as many big matches on big ppvs like HBK did. None of the japanese or lucha guys ever had HBk vs Undertaker at mania matches or HBk vs Bet Hart matches. And that is a fact. 5) HBK wrestled for the biggest company in the world for most of his career, putting on great matches for the entire length of his career. Was founding member of DX, sold tons of merchandise, and told great stories in the ring constantly. and getting into the nitty gritty you calling me shamless hbk mark as a closing to your argument only makes yours much less valid as you clearly have some type of grudge. |
|
|
|
Post by Bruce Leroy on May 14, 2012 15:32:09 GMT -5
Not really a point going on about it. Everyone has some degree of bias, and yours is obviously towards HBK as the best ever. When it comes to HBK's great matches, they came from other greats. It's not he's carried people to five star matches. He's worked with greats and still was able to carry his own. . Naturally, those matches were great.. But there are guys that put on as many classics as HBK in my own opinion. Emphasis on the word opinion. Sure.. the Japanese guys didn't compete at wrestlemania.. That's because they were making a ton of money and selling out 50,000+ arenas back in their own country. (See January 4 Dome Show on wikipedia and see how often Inoki, Hashimoto, and Mutoh were at the top of the card.) As for my closing argument, it was actually about how there isn't a single GOAT and how it wouldn't be HBK regardless. And with that, I'll end my commentary with you unless you want to pm me.
|
|
|
|
Post by Fantozzi on May 14, 2012 15:48:39 GMT -5
1.Misawa 2.Kobashi 3.Kawada 4.Mutoh 5.Akiyama 6.Taue 7. Tenryu 8.Liger 9. Hashimoto 10.Chono That's just when he was wrestling and I didn't even put Vader in there (though he should be in all honesty) because most only remember him from his WWE/WWF run which admittedly was pretty bad. On top of those names you also have Inoki , Baba , Jumbo , Hansen and guys like Takayama , Sasaki , Nagata and Tenzan who are somewhat debatable. I love HBK , I adore the man. He was an all time great worker , top thirty? No doubt but the greatest of all time in-ring ? No!!! How? Misawa and Kobashi both Invented more moves then Shawn! Literally what could Shawn do that Misawa couldn't or hadn't? Those guys made Vader look like a million bucks yet Shawn could barley work with the guy. Vader who mind you , could legitimately be the greatest big man of all time or is only perhap second to the undertaker. Hell , How many companies did Shawn hold the top belt in? The WWE? Vader alone held it in WCW , New Japan and All Japan Muto held the NWA World Title , The IWGP Title and The AJPW Title. You want to go by Meltzer? ( I know some don't trust the guy but he's still pretty damn respected) We can do that to , Shawn has had Four matches of the year to Misawa's four and Kobashi's five yet both Misawa and Kobashi have been wrestler of the year three times to HBK's NONE and don't even get me started on Five Star Matches. Seriously HBK could be the greatest WWE wrestler of all time , The Greatest Wrestlemania wrestler of all time and the greatest Royal Rumble winner of all time but pound for pound the best in ring worker? No. This isn't me having a hard on for Japanese wrestling , I'll admit that Baba wasn't as good as Taker or that right now hands down far and away Daniel Bryan is a better wrestler then KENTA and Marufuji or that see a Brock Lesnar match then a Nagata one but I will not sit here and say that HBK is the greatest in ring performer of all time because there's no objective way to watch HBK wrestle and say that. Now I'm out because this thread is probably going to devolve quickly into the classic IWC Feud of Japanese Wrestling Vs American where both sides refuse to come down off their high horse and admit that both have their own negatives and positives and that's it possible to enjoy both for what they are. of all the names you listed i'd rank only misawa, kawada, liger and jumbo ahead of HBK i'd put tenryu and kobashi on his level the others weren't as good as HBK IMO |
|
|
|
Post by Bruce Leroy on May 14, 2012 15:57:35 GMT -5
1.Misawa 2.Kobashi 3.Kawada 4.Mutoh 5.Akiyama 6.Taue 7. Tenryu 8.Liger 9. Hashimoto 10.Chono That's just when he was wrestling and I didn't even put Vader in there (though he should be in all honesty) because most only remember him from his WWE/WWF run which admittedly was pretty bad. On top of those names you also have Inoki , Baba , Jumbo , Hansen and guys like Takayama , Sasaki , Nagata and Tenzan who are somewhat debatable. I love HBK , I adore the man. He was an all time great worker , top thirty? No doubt but the greatest of all time in-ring ? No!!! How? Misawa and Kobashi both Invented more moves then Shawn! Literally what could Shawn do that Misawa couldn't or hadn't? Those guys made Vader look like a million bucks yet Shawn could barley work with the guy. Vader who mind you , could legitimately be the greatest big man of all time or is only perhap second to the undertaker. Hell , How many companies did Shawn hold the top belt in? The WWE? Vader alone held it in WCW , New Japan and All Japan Muto held the NWA World Title , The IWGP Title and The AJPW Title. You want to go by Meltzer? ( I know some don't trust the guy but he's still pretty damn respected) We can do that to , Shawn has had Four matches of the year to Misawa's four and Kobashi's five yet both Misawa and Kobashi have been wrestler of the year three times to HBK's NONE and don't even get me started on Five Star Matches. Seriously HBK could be the greatest WWE wrestler of all time , The Greatest Wrestlemania wrestler of all time and the greatest Royal Rumble winner of all time but pound for pound the best in ring worker? No. This isn't me having a hard on for Japanese wrestling , I'll admit that Baba wasn't as good as Taker or that right now hands down far and away Daniel Bryan is a better wrestler then KENTA and Marufuji or that see a Brock Lesnar match then a Nagata one but I will not sit here and say that HBK is the greatest in ring performer of all time because there's no objective way to watch HBK wrestle and say that. Now I'm out because this thread is probably going to devolve quickly into the classic IWC Feud of Japanese Wrestling Vs American where both sides refuse to come down off their high horse and admit that both have their own negatives and positives and that's it possible to enjoy both for what they are. of all the names you listed i'd rank only misawa, kawada, liger and jumbo ahead of HBK i'd put tenryu and kobashi on his level the others weren't as good as HBK IMO Yeah.. I'd agree with you there... and I have a strong bias for Kobashi and Tenryu. I'd even put Liger on par with HBK. Liger has a great body of work and has influence a generation of wrestlers and styles. I'd say Tiger Mask, but there have been 4 different incarnations. |
|
suben
Bubba Ho-Tep
Sailing Jump!
Posts: 617
|
Post by suben on May 14, 2012 16:18:18 GMT -5
Of course that's ignoring women. The Crush Gals were both INCREDIBLY good in basically every facet of wrestling and a lot of AJW's top dogs of the '90s were basically putting on killer matches throughout most of the decade.
Jaguar Yokota probably has a legit claim to being the greatest women's wrestler of all time and one of the greatest of all time period given her match quality, how innovative and ahead of her time she was and how her fast, high-impact style basically become THE defining influence on joshi's style (and kind of filtered out to other promotions/indies/etc.) and the fact that most of AJW's best wrestlers from about the mid-'80s through the mid-'90s were trained and mentored by her and she even helped out/mentored a lot of her contemporaries like the Crush Gals.
Of course given that '80s/'90s AJW is my all-time favorite wrestling I might be a little biased but Jaguar was legit great. At the very least her matches with Pantera Surena/La Galactica and her WWWA title match with Lioness Asuka are must watches. Maybe her 6/28/84 tag with Devil Masami against the Crush Gals too.
|
|
nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,777 
|
Post by nisidhe on May 14, 2012 16:18:36 GMT -5
1) I listed benoits, Guerros, and Danielson as great wrestlers who wrestled in japan and were huge in america. Eddie and benoit both should have had even more success then they did. This is true, simply because they were, by far, superior talents in the ring and by far better contributors to the long-term success of the business. I fail to see how your arguments establish definitively that Shawn Michaels was the "greatest ever." If we are talking about in-ring work, any of us here can provide numerous examples of wrestlers who were better. If we're discussing professionalism, again, there were better students of the craft, better colleagues in the locker room, better representatives of the company, better people overall. If we're talking merchandise sales, I'm pretty sure "Austin 3:16" and "Hulkamania" T-shirts did at least as well, and the John Cena Collection is poised also to overtake D-X, which, by the way, does not represent solely Shawn's appeal. Be perfectly straight with us - by what measure, apart from your personal preference, are you calling Shawn Michaels the greatest? I'll give you that point, but only because the Japanese guys were technically better. Moreover, if a Japanese wrestler made himself the figure of controversy that Shawn was hyped to be, he'd most likely be out of the dojo in a heartbeat. Not all that is said about Shawn Michaels is good. Consider the possibility that Jericho - trained in the Dungeon, with experience in Japan, Mexico, Europe, ECW and WCW among others - _carried_ HBK through that match. Consider, additionally, that all the other "big matches" on the major PPVs were the result of a) opponents who loved wrestling and/or their spots more than they hated Michaels and were willing to carry his ass and b) the promotion of these matches as somehow great moments in the history of our sport. "Mr. WrestleMania" was merely hyped to be a "showstopper." It doesn't mean that he actually was. As for the Japanese wrestling stars and the luchadors who somehow never made it to the WWE: consider, too, that Japan and Mexico are populous enough nations, with far greater proportions of wrestling fans overall. Nobody from those countries _needs_ to break into the American market to succeed. Had Michaels cared enough about the craft, he might have taken an actual tour of those regions to hone his skills. *sigh* Watch Bret and Benoit's Owen Tribute Match, and you may understand how a story is told in the ring. D-X was _never_ merely about Shawn, but a means to transfer Shawn's heat/pops onto Triple H - as popular as it was, it was never solely about Shawn and, as time went by it became less and less about him. Merchandise sales from D-X were good but were never on the level of Hulkamania in scope, will never equal Cena's for sheer dollar value, or Austin 3:16 for volume. Please, please, please, tell us what measurements you are using to gauge Shawn Michaels as the greatest. From where I'm standing, I'm having a hard time listing him objectively as one of the greats, or even particularly good. His stardom seems primarily hype-based. |
|
|
|
Post by gnr123 on May 14, 2012 16:32:45 GMT -5
I have never seen a guy have the WWE machine behind him so much than Shawn Michaels. His "greatest of all time" stuff is all hype perpetrated by the WWE. If Hulk Hogan was still in the WWE when the 100 great wrestlers of all time list came out he would've been #1, no doubt. Shawn Michaels is basically "the legend" now for the WWE. Like how they used Hogan and Austin as big time legends, their doing the same with HBK. Since Austin and Hogan aren't going to be around that much anymore, their using Shawn for the nostalgia pop.
Is he the greatest of all time, not by any chance. Is he good, yes. Talented, yes. Charismatic, one of the best.
|
|
|
|
Post by Fantozzi on May 14, 2012 16:40:54 GMT -5
Furthermore as far as Japanese talent, they aint the best in the world if they haven't worked for best company in the world. I know that statement is a can of worms on these boards, but it's the truth as far as I am concerned. Guys like Muta are great and will be remembered for the right reasons, but throwing out japanese names who have never worked for NWA/WCW/WWE to an extent ECW or TNA. i think it's safe to say that in the 90s NJPW was the top wrestling company in the world they were selling out stadiums comparing 90s japanese wrestling to ECW is just silly |
|
|
|
Post by Sir Woodrow on May 14, 2012 16:41:15 GMT -5
I have the theory that if it had been Shawn instead of Bret that jumped to WCW in 1997 it would be Bret they would call the greatest of all time.
Shawn would be considered one of the "best", but not the"greatest"
|
|
|
|
Post by stinger on May 14, 2012 16:41:26 GMT -5
In my opinion, while he may not be THE best in any single category, he is near the top in all categories. He is good in the ring, on the mic, has charisma, and is crazy over.
I think he's the G.O.A.T. not because he does one thing better than everybody, but because he comes closer to the top of the list in so many different things than anyone else does.
|
|
Welfare Willis
Crow T. Robot
Pornomancer
555-BONE
FDIC Bonsured
Game Center CX Kacho on!
Posts: 44,259
|
Post by Welfare Willis on May 14, 2012 16:46:35 GMT -5
I have the theory that if it had been Shawn instead of Bret that jumped to WCW in 1997 it would be Bret they would call the greatest of all time. Shawn would be considered one of the "best", but not the"greatest" I can see that as well. Still I think the man does deserve his place among the best of the best. If he's not "the best" than he still is up there. |
|
The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,706 
|
Post by The Ichi on May 14, 2012 16:47:04 GMT -5
ITT: People not grasping the concept of opinions.
|
|
Juice
El Dandy
Wrong? Oh he can tell ya about being wrong.
I'm the one who raised you from perdition.
Posts: 8,172
|
Post by Juice on May 14, 2012 18:10:39 GMT -5
1) I listed benoits, Guerros, and Danielson as great wrestlers who wrestled in japan and were huge in america. Eddie and benoit both should have had even more success then they did. This is true, simply because they were, by far, superior talents in the ring and by far better contributors to the long-term success of the business. I fail to see how your arguments establish definitively that Shawn Michaels was the "greatest ever." If we are talking about in-ring work, any of us here can provide numerous examples of wrestlers who were better. If we're discussing professionalism, again, there were better students of the craft, better colleagues in the locker room, better representatives of the company, better people overall. If we're talking merchandise sales, I'm pretty sure "Austin 3:16" and "Hulkamania" T-shirts did at least as well, and the John Cena Collection is poised also to overtake D-X, which, by the way, does not represent solely Shawn's appeal. Be perfectly straight with us - by what measure, apart from your personal preference, are you calling Shawn Michaels the greatest? I'll give you that point, but only because the Japanese guys were technically better. Moreover, if a Japanese wrestler made himself the figure of controversy that Shawn was hyped to be, he'd most likely be out of the dojo in a heartbeat. Not all that is said about Shawn Michaels is good. Consider the possibility that Jericho - trained in the Dungeon, with experience in Japan, Mexico, Europe, ECW and WCW among others - _carried_ HBK through that match. Consider, additionally, that all the other "big matches" on the major PPVs were the result of a) opponents who loved wrestling and/or their spots more than they hated Michaels and were willing to carry his ass and b) the promotion of these matches as somehow great moments in the history of our sport. "Mr. WrestleMania" was merely hyped to be a "showstopper." It doesn't mean that he actually was. As for the Japanese wrestling stars and the luchadors who somehow never made it to the WWE: consider, too, that Japan and Mexico are populous enough nations, with far greater proportions of wrestling fans overall. Nobody from those countries _needs_ to break into the American market to succeed. Had Michaels cared enough about the craft, he might have taken an actual tour of those regions to hone his skills. *sigh* Watch Bret and Benoit's Owen Tribute Match, and you may understand how a story is told in the ring. D-X was _never_ merely about Shawn, but a means to transfer Shawn's heat/pops onto Triple H - as popular as it was, it was never solely about Shawn and, as time went by it became less and less about him. Merchandise sales from D-X were good but were never on the level of Hulkamania in scope, will never equal Cena's for sheer dollar value, or Austin 3:16 for volume. Please, please, please, tell us what measurements you are using to gauge Shawn Michaels as the greatest. From where I'm standing, I'm having a hard time listing him objectively as one of the greats, or even particularly good. His stardom seems primarily hype-based. This whole Japanese thing is stupid. Think about where you are posting, the WWE thread. all of your Japanese talents that never worked big time in America should be only best wrestlers never work in wwe (or promotions that wwe owns the rights to). It would be worth looking up how many dojos that outsold wrestlemanias. I'm not saying they didn't but I'd like to see real numbers if you're going to make the claim. HBK is the total package and to say Jericho carried him in their mania match is very very wrong. And I never said DX was only about Shawn I said he was a founding member and DX sold a lot of merchandise and put Austin over into a solidified main eventer. Sure Hogan would talk and rile up a crowd but had limited brawling skills as a wrestler and at the time it's all you needed. Austin was good in the ring better on the mic and arguably more charismatic than Hogan, but tecnically speaking he was a brawler too. HBK was a guy who could wrestle with wrestlers, brawl with brawlers, fly when needed, had loads of charisma, etc. the idea that HBK needed to be carried is blowing my mind... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 14, 2012 18:27:03 GMT -5
I'm curious about those who claim HBK never did it between the bells. The man could have a math with a goddamn piece of paper, and still steal the show. He's one of the best to ever lace up a pair of boots. Like I said before, if he's not the G.O.A.T., he's a damn close second.
|
|
|
|
Post by lemonyellowson on May 14, 2012 18:27:04 GMT -5
HBK is the greatest in ring performer i have ever seen - say all you like about hype but show me a man that could go as well as hbk and you'll be showing me another legend.
|
|
fw91
Crow T. Robot
FAN Idol All-Star: FAN Idol Season X and *Gavel* 2x Judges' Throwdown winner
Tribe has spoken for 2024 Mets
Posts: 40,033
|
Post by fw91 on May 14, 2012 18:29:33 GMT -5
I have the theory that if it had been Shawn instead of Bret that jumped to WCW in 1997 it would be Bret they would call the greatest of all time. Shawn would be considered one of the "best", but not the"greatest" I can see that as well. Still I think the man does deserve his place among the best of the best. If he's not "the best" than he still is up there. i think hbk is better regardless, but that is a fair point |
|
