Juice
El Dandy
Wrong? Oh he can tell ya about being wrong.
I'm the one who raised you from perdition.
Posts: 8,172
|
Post by Juice on Nov 18, 2012 23:11:47 GMT -5
Pretty much. And before that, you have a match where he won despite tapping out which is all well and good except for the fact that at the time Bryan's gimmick was basically, "He lost in eighteen seconds!". Then before that was Jericho for a couple of months, who hasn't been an actual threat in years, then an Elimination Chamber which is fine, a complete squash match on Ziggler that was built around an authority figure Punk basically had no meaningful interaction with after that, and a TLC match where again, no complaints. This reign has sucked, it's just that it's Punk so that's being ignored. If this was Miz, Cena, Orton, Del Rio or anyone else people whould be calling for their heads. The most credible thing in the run was beating Jericho and he's been a jobber to the starts for 2 or 3 years even losing to Evan Bourne on PPV, that with the love triangle getting pinned on raw often then Turing heel and can't even win a match clean on PPV. If I was Rock I would be pissed I would want Punk looking strong but now when Rock wins it will be Punks luck just ran out rather than he beat a strong heel champion. Rocks gonna make Punk look like a million bucks. Look what he did with just one clothesline. Imagine the whole program.
|
|
|
Post by memphis25 on Nov 18, 2012 23:14:47 GMT -5
Except what he's doing isn't hellish, he's been booked extremely weak and that's why nobody but the IWC cares about him. You're talking balls there. Whether it's boos or cheers he gets almost the best reaction of the week, every week. From smart marks and cheap heat, he has no mainstream heat and doesn't draw ratings.
|
|
|
Post by wrestling4ever on Nov 18, 2012 23:16:31 GMT -5
If this was Miz, Cena, Orton, Del Rio or anyone else people whould be calling for their heads. The most credible thing in the run was beating Jericho and he's been a jobber to the starts for 2 or 3 years even losing to Evan Bourne on PPV, that with the love triangle getting pinned on raw often then Turing heel and can't even win a match clean on PPV. If I was Rock I would be pissed I would want Punk looking strong but now when Rock wins it will be Punks luck just ran out rather than he beat a strong heel champion. Rocks gonna make Punk look like a million bucks. Look what he did with just one clothesline. Imagine the whole program. Pretty much, just as long as they go about it right. Win or lose this program should do wonders for Punk.
|
|
Marvelously Mediocre
Fry's dog Seymour
Beggin' for a little SWAGGAH!
Haha. What a story Mark.
Posts: 21,224
|
Post by Marvelously Mediocre on Nov 18, 2012 23:18:42 GMT -5
You're talking balls there. Whether it's boos or cheers he gets almost the best reaction of the week, every week. From smart marks and cheap heat, he has no mainstream heat and doesn't draw ratings. No one draws ratings anymore. Not even Cena really. No one has mainstream heat either and this has been the case for about ten years. The ticket paying audience all have an opinion on Punk and will make noise for him, just like with Cena. That's as good as you can ask for. And he's a heel of course he's gonna go for cheap heat, there isn't a successful heel in wrestling who didn't.
|
|
mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
|
Post by mizerable on Nov 18, 2012 23:19:33 GMT -5
If this was Miz, Cena, Orton, Del Rio or anyone else people whould be calling for their heads. The most credible thing in the run was beating Jericho and he's been a jobber to the starts for 2 or 3 years even losing to Evan Bourne on PPV, that with the love triangle getting pinned on raw often then Turing heel and can't even win a match clean on PPV. If I was Rock I would be pissed I would want Punk looking strong but now when Rock wins it will be Punks luck just ran out rather than he beat a strong heel champion. If it was Cena (which it was in '06-'07) then I would keep cheering the guy. It's an impressive accomplishment no matter how you look at it. While I agree that his character sucks, he still puts on some pretty good matches. If it were someone like Del Rio...yeah, I'd be pissed, but a lot of that has to do with how unimpressive he is, even for the live crowd. Punk on the other hand at least gets a reaction from the crowd.
|
|
Krazee
Salacious Crumb
Posts: 71,547
|
Post by Krazee on Nov 18, 2012 23:21:02 GMT -5
if Punk doesnt defend his title from now till TLC, he's guaranteed to surpass Cena in Championship Reigns
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2012 23:24:20 GMT -5
If this was Miz, Cena, Orton, Del Rio or anyone else people whould be calling for their heads. The most credible thing in the run was beating Jericho and he's been a jobber to the starts for 2 or 3 years even losing to Evan Bourne on PPV, that with the love triangle getting pinned on raw often then Turing heel and can't even win a match clean on PPV. If I was Rock I would be pissed I would want Punk looking strong but now when Rock wins it will be Punks luck just ran out rather than he beat a strong heel champion. If it was Cena (which it was in '06-'07) then I would keep cheering the guy. It's an impressive accomplishment no matter how you look at it. While I agree that his character sucks, he still puts on some pretty good matches. If it were someone like Del Rio...yeah, I'd be pissed, but a lot of that has to do with how unimpressive he is, even for the live crowd. Punk on the other hand at least gets a reaction from the crowd. The match thing is part of my problem with the reign personally. Not seen the Elimination Chamber, the Extreme Rules match, the first match with Bryan, or anything since SummerSlam, but TLC was good, the Ziggler match sucked, the Mania match with Jericho had about five good minutes of content in there, the triple threat match with Kane and Bryan poor ending aside was damn good, and the Money in the Bank match with Bryan was terrible. Though then again, I'm not much of a fan of Punk's ring work.
|
|
|
Post by memphis25 on Nov 18, 2012 23:27:02 GMT -5
[No one draws ratings anymore. Not even Cena really. No one has mainstream heat either and this has been the case for about ten years. The ticket paying audience all have an opinion on Punk and will make noise for him, just like with Cena. That's as good as you can ask for. And he's a heel of course he's gonna go for cheap heat, there isn't a successful heel in wrestling who didn't. People do far better than what Punk has, his numbers are fading the longer he's been champion. You can get heel heat without going into cheap heat and Punk spends most all his time him going cheap. He's been booked poor but people here don't want to see it because they love him to death since a Indy guy made it big, but this has been a massive nothing going on run for the entire year.
|
|
|
Post by memphis25 on Nov 18, 2012 23:30:21 GMT -5
If it was Cena (which it was in '06-'07) then I would keep cheering the guy. It's an impressive accomplishment no matter how you look at it. While I agree that his character sucks, he still puts on some pretty good matches. If it were someone like Del Rio...yeah, I'd be pissed, but a lot of that has to do with how unimpressive he is, even for the live crowd. Punk on the other hand at least gets a reaction from the crowd. If they made Cena look this weak you wouldn't love it. They last 8 months of his career has been in a love triangle and getting has ass beat only to keep the title by never beating anyone and before that he had predicable match ups leading to and with Jericho. The guy has actually lost steam by holding the title for a year.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2012 23:33:37 GMT -5
[No one draws ratings anymore. Not even Cena really. No one has mainstream heat either and this has been the case for about ten years. The ticket paying audience all have an opinion on Punk and will make noise for him, just like with Cena. That's as good as you can ask for. And he's a heel of course he's gonna go for cheap heat, there isn't a successful heel in wrestling who didn't. People do far better than what Punk has, his numbers are fading the longer he's been champion. You can get heel heat without going into cheap heat and Punk spends most all his time him going cheap. He's been booked poor but people here don't want to see it because they love him to death since a Indy guy made it big, but this has been a massive nothing going on run for the entire year. Actually, Cena as champ wasn't that much higher in the ratings. Punk hasn't set the world on fire, but no matter who was on top, RAW going to three hours was going to hurt their ratings.
|
|
Arrow
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,122
|
Post by Arrow on Nov 18, 2012 23:37:54 GMT -5
People do far better than what Punk has, his numbers are fading the longer he's been champion. You can get heel heat without going into cheap heat and Punk spends most all his time him going cheap. He's been booked poor but people here don't want to see it because they love him to death since a Indy guy made it big, but this has been a massive nothing going on run for the entire year. Actually, Cena as champ wasn't that much higher in the ratings. Punk hasn't set the world on fire, but no matter who was on top, RAW going to three hours was going to hurt their ratings. Which Cena reign are you talking about? Because overall, Raw ratings rose during his first champion reign, and continued to rise up until Benoit happened. Meanwhile, ratings never really moved at all during Punk's first or second reigns.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2012 23:38:12 GMT -5
People do far better than what Punk has, his numbers are fading the longer he's been champion. You can get heel heat without going into cheap heat and Punk spends most all his time him going cheap. He's been booked poor but people here don't want to see it because they love him to death since a Indy guy made it big, but this has been a massive nothing going on run for the entire year. Actually, Cena as champ wasn't that much higher in the ratings. Punk hasn't set the world on fire, but no matter who was on top, RAW going to three hours was going to hurt their ratings. Doesn't change though that the November 14th, 2011, Raw - which was three hours - got a 3.25, with a 3.37 for the standard hours. By comparison this week got a 2.9.
|
|
mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
|
Post by mizerable on Nov 18, 2012 23:40:48 GMT -5
If they made Cena look this weak you wouldn't love it. They last 8 months of his career has been in a love triangle and getting has ass beat only to keep the title by never beating anyone and before that he had predicable match ups leading to and with Jericho. The guy has actually lost steam by holding the title for a year. You mean overcoming the odds? He was getting trumped left and right leading up to the PPVs and had some pretty good matches with guys who weren't already main eventers. Punk has had some great matches with Cena, Jericho, Bryan and so forth. Outside of his character being weak, he isn't exactly some puny wimp who can't get any offense in. You can almost pain a picture that the pressure as champion is getting to him the longer he's champ, therefore getting arrogant so forth. Just because he isn't dominating guys left and right doesn't mean he's some jobber all the sudden. There is a middle ground.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2012 23:41:30 GMT -5
Actually, Cena as champ wasn't that much higher in the ratings. Punk hasn't set the world on fire, but no matter who was on top, RAW going to three hours was going to hurt their ratings. Doesn't change though that the November 14th, 2011, Raw - which was three hours - got a 3.25, with a 3.37 for the standard hours. By comparison this week got a 2.9. Yeah, but there's a difference between one "special event" heavily-hyped style 3 hour raw and week after week of 3 hour Raws which didn't start til 6 months AFTER that Raw. Audience fatigue sets in. To sit down one night every once in a while to watch a 3 hour Raw is one thing, but to devote 3 hours, every week, week in and week out, people are going to drop off no matter who is on top.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2012 23:43:22 GMT -5
Actually, Cena as champ wasn't that much higher in the ratings. Punk hasn't set the world on fire, but no matter who was on top, RAW going to three hours was going to hurt their ratings. Which Cena reign are you talking about? Because overall, Raw ratings rose during his first champion reign, and continued to rise up until Benoit happened. Meanwhile, ratings never really moved at all during Punk's first or second reigns. Different time altogether though. If Cena won the title tonight with the same format (3 hour Raws) it wouldn't change a thing. Cena's still on the show every week - just because Punk is champ doesn't meant Cena's fans disappear.
|
|
|
Post by memphis25 on Nov 18, 2012 23:44:15 GMT -5
Actually, Cena as champ wasn't that much higher in the ratings. Punk hasn't set the world on fire, but no matter who was on top, RAW going to three hours was going to hurt their ratings. Three hours is a weak excuse IMO if something's hot people will tun in for it still and bypass the Ryder's, Diva's or what 3MB's of the world.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2012 23:45:11 GMT -5
Actually, Cena as champ wasn't that much higher in the ratings. Punk hasn't set the world on fire, but no matter who was on top, RAW going to three hours was going to hurt their ratings. Three hours is a weak excuse IMO if something's hot people will tun in for it still and bypass the Ryder's, Diva's or what 3MB's of the world. Well, Cena is still on the show every week, if not more now than ever - where did his fans go? Do they only watch when he's the champ? Not a very solid fan base then.
|
|
|
Post by flatsdomino on Nov 18, 2012 23:51:18 GMT -5
You're talking balls there. Whether it's boos or cheers he gets almost the best reaction of the week, every week. From smart marks and cheap heat, he has no mainstream heat and doesn't draw ratings. I love the logic hoops people invent for themselves to jump through just so they don't have to admit something. "Okay, so he gets heat and the biggest reaction of the night, but listen to WHO'S reacting! It's not heat from THIS PARTICULAR PART OF THE AUDIENCE or THAT KIND OF HEAT and what about THIS OTHER ARBITRARY AREA WHERE HE'S NOT BEING AUSTIN OR HOGAN IN TERMS OF SUCCESS?! Only using the facts that support my argument PROVES I'm right!"
|
|
|
Post by Shaun2k5 on Nov 18, 2012 23:53:18 GMT -5
The big problem I have after Survivor Series is that it now REALLY feels like WWE is just padding the number. Its like they've decided that the number to his reign is more important than the quality, because it'll make a better soundbite when The Rock swoops in and wins it off him. Two PPVs in a row Punk has had his backside whooped and had to be saved by faceless cronies.
I'm glad he made the year but this last 100 days hasn't been the sparkler it should have.
|
|
|
Post by memphis25 on Nov 18, 2012 23:54:35 GMT -5
You mean overcoming the odds? He was getting trumped left and right leading up to the PPVs and had some pretty good matches with guys who weren't already main eventers. Punk has had some great matches with Cena, Jericho, Bryan and so forth. Outside of his character being weak, he isn't exactly some puny wimp who can't get any offense in. You can almost pain a picture that the pressure as champion is getting to him the longer he's champ, therefore getting arrogant so forth. Just because he isn't dominating guys left and right doesn't mean he's some jobber all the sudden. There is a middle ground. That is the problem, no matter how good you work if you have a weak character from being booked poorly for 8 months it devalues the run. He's had the strap for a year now and isn't as over today with it as he was without it.
|
|