Bret Hart started the attitude era.

[lewis1711]

His promo in early 1997 where he "snapped" is, for me, when the attitude era really began.

"I am the best there was, the best there is, and the best there ever will be - and if you don't like it, tough shit!"

Goody two shoes babyface Bret. the paragon of everything noble about the new generation, finally snaps.

[linecookguy]

Austin 3:16

[mizerable]

Sept 9, 2012 23:21:33 GMT -5 @linecookguy said:

Austin 3:16

[molson5]

Sept 9, 2012 23:20:33 GMT -5 lewis1711 said:

His promo in early 1997 where he "snapped" is, for me, when the attitude era really began.

"I am the best there was, the best there is, and the best there ever will be - and if you don't like it, tough s***!"

Goody two shoes babyface Bret. the paragon of everything noble about the new generation, finally snaps.

I think you can definitely make that argument.

3:16 happened at King of the Ring 1996. On the next PPV, IYH: International Incident, Austin beat Marc Mero, and the main event was Camp Cornette v. HBK/Sid/Ahmed Johnson. It didn't feel like the attitude era yet. Up next was Summerslam, when HBK beat Vader, and Austin was on the pre-show. Definitely not the attitude era. Next show was IYH: Mind Games, Mankind v. HBK, Austin wasn't even on the card. Getting closer I guess, but Austin had nothing to do with it yet. Skip 2 PPVs ahead to Survivor Series - Sid beats HBK for the title at MSG in front of fans who were cheering Sid and bored of babyface HBK, and Hart beats Austin for the #1 contender's spot. That's the first show that felt like the attitude era, but I agree with you, it really went into gear at that RAW (in Syracuse, I happen to remember, because I was living there but was too stupid to go), with that cage match that ended with Hart freaking out. It was definitely on after that.

[Slanted and Enchanted]

I have to admit that I was heavily into WCW around 1996 and completely skipped out on WWF that year. About the 3:16 promo...was it considered a big deal when it first happened? Or was it something that was retrospectively turned into a big deal when Austin started getting big?

[molson5]

Sept 9, 2012 23:45:27 GMT -5 Slanted and Enchanted said:

I have to admit that I was heavily into WCW around 1996 and completely skipped out on WWF that year. About the 3:16 promo...was it considered a big deal when it first happened? Or was it something that was retrospectively turned into a big deal when Austin started getting big?

IMO, it's mostly the latter. It led to something of a push, but if you track Austin's PPV results after that show, it took a long while for him to break through to the main event. Once he did move up the card, he kept losing to Bret Hart - at least 3 times on PPV. I think the product was good enough than that the internet fans didn't crap on that like they would today.

[Deleted]

Sept 9, 2012 23:45:27 GMT -5 Slanted and Enchanted said:

I have to admit that I was heavily into WCW around 1996 and completely skipped out on WWF that year. About the 3:16 promo...was it considered a big deal when it first happened? Or was it something that was retrospectively turned into a big deal when Austin started getting big?

Kind of curious of the same thing of anyone who was part of 1996's "IWC" in terms of the response to Bret Hart's promo too. I was a dumb kid around the time all this was happening so I never really thought too much about it, but was Bret's promo seen as a desperate way for WWF to appear edgy? Or was it similar to the reaction to CM Punk's "pipe bomb" from last year?

[papagiorgio]

I think the whole Austin vs. Hart feud started it and then the Montreal Screwjob/DX took it to a new level.

[Perd]

I don't think the "Attitude" era started as a result of anyone person or thing. I think it was the culmination of several factors, that led to it.

You can't overlook Vince deciding to go with HBK, as his top guy. With Shawn, being the way he was then, Vince almost couldn't help make his product more edgy. From what I've heard and read, Shawn was going to do whatever he wanted, come hell or high water. And Vince obliged him.

Another factor is that WCW was kicking their ass. They couldn't just go with the same old, same old and expect to survive.

And certainly Bret played a role also. His character, at the time, was someone who was frustrated with the direction the company was headed. And it just so happened, that he felt that way in real life, also. Every time he cut a promo, it seemed liked he was genuinely pissed off and that's because he truly was.

At the end of the day, you have give most of the credit to Austin and Vince, but I think the Monday night wars, HBK, and Bret definitely played a huge role. in the direction the company went in.

[Deleted]

Sept 9, 2012 23:21:33 GMT -5 @linecookguy said:

Austin 3:16

Correctamundo

[Ryanar]

I just came across that episode of Raw and it was the explosion that was building for months. With the ECW Invasion and the amount of hatred going on (Ahmed Johnson/NOD, Goldust/Triple H, Lawler/Heyman) The WWF was looking slightly edgier. But after Hart cut that promo, the name "Raw is War" was not just a name. It was basically War each week.

[lewis1711]

Sept 10, 2012 0:27:39 GMT -5 Perd said:

I don't think the "Attitude" era started as a result of anyone person or thing. I think it was the culmination of several factors, that led to it.

You can't overlook Vince deciding to go with HBK, as his top guy. With Shawn, being the way he was then, Vince almost couldn't help make his product more edgy. From what I've heard and read, Shawn was going to do whatever he wanted, come hell or high water. And Vince obliged him.

Another factor is that WCW was kicking their ass. They couldn't just go with the same old, same old and expect to survive.

And certainly Bret played a role also. His character, at the time, was someone who was frustrated with the direction the company was headed. And it just so happened, that he felt that way in real life, also. Every time he cut a promo, it seemed liked he was genuinely pissed off and that's because he truly was.

At the end of the day, you have give most of the credit to Austin and Vince, but I think the Monday night wars, HBK, and Bret definitely played a huge role. in the direction the company went in.

The title was a bit tongue-in-cheek - no one person started the attitude era.

But that promo was the start of it for me.

he really should make a t-shirt with that printed on it.

[Madagascar Fred]

this is how I see it:

they started getting edgier and edgier since fall 1995 with the Goldust stuff

after that, we got Austin 3:16 and the introduction of Brian Pillman in mid-96 which also helped pave the way for the Attitude Era (Austin/Pillman gun incident in Nov. 96!). also more hardcore matches & brawls thanks to the Taker/Mankind storyline mostly

everything getting more violent & trashy, women getting more naked by the day (Sable, Sunny, Marlena) during late 96/early 97, especially with Shotgun Saturday Night's first episodes

the official new name "RAW is WAR" and the 2-hour format kinda felt like the legit start of the Attitude Era, right after WM 13

before WM 13, we still had some PG/kid-friendly stuff like the face Godwinns, The Sultan with Backlund & Sheik, a tame Sid/Taker feud, young blue-chipper Rocky Maivia, family man Goldust, rather harmless HHH (although the HHH/Goldust feud included some edgy stuff with Marlena & some brawl contests), the Smoking Gunns break-up, Furnas/LaFon etc.

after WM 13, seemingly EVERYBODY (and the stories & angles themselves) started getting more violent, more insane, more extreme...thats when Russo's & Vince's ideas and new direction kicked in full-force

[Cranjis McBasketball]

I believe Foley believes it started the night of a huge talent meeting, I believe the night Pillman was found dead, where he admitted maybe WWF was passe and let the guys have way more input on their characters.

[dbostick]

Actually, I still believe Diesel started the Attitude era with "I'm the shit!", then Warrior continued with "I don't give a shit!" then they finally gave the foul mouth gimmick to Austin and the rest is history.

[Ryushinku]

It was different things coming together, but Bret's rant here was a big part of it.

I mean it's not like Austin cut his 3:16 promo then, bang, it was all suddenly Stone Cold Stone Cold Bah Gawd.

[Deleted]

Austin is to the attitude era, what Black Sabbath is to metal. While Sabbath wasn't necessarily the first "heavy" band. They were the first to bring all the elements together and define metal. Same with Austin, he wasn't the first edgy character of that time, but the first to go all the way with it and bring it to a new level.

[Deleted]

At the time, the stuff they were doing with Bret seemed edgier than Austin for a while. WWE tends to hype up the Austin 3:16 promo as WAY more of a big deal than it was at the time.

For my money, the Attitude era started with the promo Vince gave introducing it at the beginning of the 12/15/97 Raw.

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

The Attitude Era truly started with a backstage meeting as recounted in Mick Foley's first book.

Vince called in all the talent and admitted that maybe he didn't know what was 'in' any more, and was giving the talent more control over their characters. This was some time in '97, I believe. It's at this point that however many superstars began to rethink their gimmicks, like the New Age Outlaws were formed partly on this basis because they changed their own characters.

[Gelatinous Parasite]

Sept 10, 2012 3:43:52 GMT -5 Cranjis McBasketball said:

I believe Foley believes it started the night of a huge talent meeting, I believe the night Pillman was found dead, where he admitted maybe WWF was passe and let the guys have way more input on their characters.

This is what I don't understand. In so many retrospectives about the enormous success of guys like Stone Cold, The Rock and even the Attitude Era in general, they credit this success to giving them creative freedom and letting them run with it. Why is everything so tightly scripted and controlled now? Raw feels like one of the most overly-produced shows on television, to the extent that it's very name is ironic. Don't get me wrong, I still love WWE and occasionally there are glimpses of spontaneity; although this comes mainly from already established and experienced guys like CM Punk. It feels like they know what works but they want to keep tight reins on everyone.