Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
Amy Pond's #1 fan
Hail Hydra!
Posts: 22,709
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Post by Legion on Dec 24, 2012 2:01:01 GMT -5
from what I heard Brubaker had big plans for Bucky and nobody told him they were killing him off until after the issue was solicited. he was pretty pissed and used his pull to get it undone. that's why it happened so fast. it's probably also one of the reasons Brubaker's leaving Marvel to work on his creator-owned stuff. Thank god he did. Stupid Marvel boys club. If you aren't in the little inner circle it seems you just get thrown whatever isnt wanted unless you bitch enough and make enemies behind the scenes. Just like any other office really.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2012 14:14:24 GMT -5
The store closest to me didn't have AMS 700 (but did have Avenging 15.1, which of course can't be read without spoiling 700), but I've heard.........things...... {Spoiler}Regarding......the r-word. Also, for the speculators, I suspect Avenging Spider-Man #15.1 will be a collectible. Even saw some inflated prices already on eBay for it. It's an epilogue to #700, and was not ordered in great abundance like ASM was. So if you see it, snap it up.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Dec 26, 2012 16:23:49 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2012 18:48:15 GMT -5
Also, for the speculators, I suspect Avenging Spider-Man #15.1 will be a collectible. Even saw some inflated prices already on eBay for it. It's an epilogue to #700, and was not ordered in great abundance like ASM was. So if you see it, snap it up. I was able to grab both in my last purchase from Midtown Comics. Now...they just have to get here in the mail. Haha.
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Dec 26, 2012 21:26:00 GMT -5
After reading #700, I was left wondering when our society turned from "I get that they're going for a new direction, but I'm just not particularly interested in it." to "Dan Slott ruined my childhood and must die and Marvel needs to go out of business." There's no measured, reasonable response any more, everything has to be stated in hyperbolic terms as though an giant company needs to be specifically tailored to your personal needs and desires. It's a goddamn comic book. If it means that much to you, you need to take a look at your own empty life.
That said, I get that they're going for a new direction, but I'm just not particularly interested in it.
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Dec 26, 2012 21:47:22 GMT -5
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Thaal Sinestro
Hank Scorpio
In Brightest Night, In Blackest Day. Etc.
Posts: 5,012
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Post by Thaal Sinestro on Dec 26, 2012 22:46:08 GMT -5
{Spoiler}Did they even state that they had sex as yet?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2012 9:41:33 GMT -5
After reading #700, I was left wondering when our society turned from "I get that they're going for a new direction, but I'm just not particularly interested in it." to "Dan Slott ruined my childhood and must die and Marvel needs to go out of business." There's no measured, reasonable response any more, everything has to be stated in hyperbolic terms as though an giant company needs to be specifically tailored to your personal needs and desires. It's a goddamn comic book. If it means that much to you, you need to take a look at your own empty life. Official answer: fanboyz will be fanboyz. Considering how Doc Ock returned to the land of the living several years ago (involved super voodoo ninja magic - seriously.) people need to chillax about this being unfixable. 1000's of instances exist where a new writer/editor just undos everything the last one did. Also, Stan Lee's tweets to Dan Slott (ASM's writer) regarding #700.......are either typical Stan Lee silly, or angsty Stan Lee pissed off. I can't tell.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Dec 27, 2012 10:06:36 GMT -5
{Spoiler}Did they even state that they had sex as yet? {Spoiler} I think Marvel has to be VERY careful here. if they haven't yet, then they probably shouldn't. up here, this would be considered Rape (Rape by Fraud). and it's much the same in a lot of other countries. there's a damn good reason Fred Van Lente ended up back-tracking what happened when Chameleon pretended to be Peter and had sex with Peter's roommate (retconned so they just made out a bit).
plus on top of that, this is Marvel comics. events like this have a terrible habit of colouring a character for YEARS if not forever (see Hank Pym, Wife Beater and Tony Stark, Alcoholic). considering the (rightly deserved) backlash Kevin Smith got when he pasted a rape-backstory onto Black Cat, Marvel should do whatever it can to keep the same kind of shenanigans from happening to Mary Jane. the only way I could see it being ok is if Peter somehow wrests control back from Doc Ock before anything happens.
they DON'T want to turn Doctor Octopus into another Doctor Light, where making him a creeper was intended to make him more threatening but just made comic fans feel sick when reading him. if Marvel isn't careful they could end up with another Sins Past here, where something really icky happens and the fans do their damndest to pretend it never happened. of course, that story was only like 6 issues so it was easier to ignore than something that will be the new status quo for a year or 2.
basically, as a rule, you have to look at past stories handling similar subject matter and ask yourself "how did people react?". if the answer is "both the fans and writers pretend it never happened they'll probably react likewise with this". in general this kind of story where a woman's treated as a disposable sex object happens way too often in comics these days and we all know how fans react. I just don't get why the writers still haven't gotten the message.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Dec 27, 2012 10:09:34 GMT -5
After reading #700, I was left wondering when our society turned from "I get that they're going for a new direction, but I'm just not particularly interested in it." to "Dan Slott ruined my childhood and must die and Marvel needs to go out of business." There's no measured, reasonable response any more, everything has to be stated in hyperbolic terms as though an giant company needs to be specifically tailored to your personal needs and desires. It's a goddamn comic book. If it means that much to you, you need to take a look at your own empty life. Official answer: fanboyz will be fanboyz. Considering how Doc Ock returned to the land of the living several years ago (involved super voodoo ninja magic - seriously.) people need to chillax about this being unfixable. 1000's of instances exist where a new writer/editor just undos everything the last one did. Also, Stan Lee's tweets to Dan Slott (ASM's writer) regarding #700.......are either typical Stan Lee silly, or angsty Stan Lee pissed off. I can't tell. this being "easily undone" isn't the point. the point of the matter is that in 2012 we have some comic book writers who think it's okay to have something this skeevy, which in some places is considered rape to be treated like it's just another thang. it's kind of creepy and misogynistic of a writer to say "well hur dur I don't think this is rape" even though it is.
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Dec 27, 2012 10:48:39 GMT -5
Official answer: fanboyz will be fanboyz. Considering how Doc Ock returned to the land of the living several years ago (involved super voodoo ninja magic - seriously.) people need to chillax about this being unfixable. 1000's of instances exist where a new writer/editor just undos everything the last one did. Also, Stan Lee's tweets to Dan Slott (ASM's writer) regarding #700.......are either typical Stan Lee silly, or angsty Stan Lee pissed off. I can't tell. this being "easily undone" isn't the point. the point of the matter is that in 2012 we have some comic book writers who think it's okay to have something this skeevy, which in some places is considered rape to be treated like it's just another thang. it's kind of creepy and misogynistic of a writer to say "well hur dur I don't think this is rape" even though it is. My post was more on people crying over {Spoiler} Peter Parker dying , not the rape interpretation. I don't have a problem with people calling a writer out on something as questionable as that, I do have a problem with someone threatening a writer's life over {Spoiler}Spider-Man not being Peter Parker anymore .
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Dec 27, 2012 11:45:08 GMT -5
ok that I can agree with you on. no matter how much he pisses you off that's inexcusable. it's shit like that that makes comic writers never take fan complaints seriously, even when they should.
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Post by stinger on Dec 27, 2012 14:08:34 GMT -5
Um...I don't think that {Spoiler} Mary Jane has slept with Dock Ock yet , so what the heck is everyone complaining about?
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Dec 27, 2012 14:20:57 GMT -5
because of the implications if she did.
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Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
Amy Pond's #1 fan
Hail Hydra!
Posts: 22,709
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Post by Legion on Dec 27, 2012 14:25:33 GMT -5
Can't say I agree that it's remotely rape, but I have to admit to having a popcorn moment over all the people have conniptions about it
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 27, 2012 19:31:54 GMT -5
Went ahead despite my objections to both the storyline and the price picked up the issue outta curiosity ( as well as the excellent collage cover) and for the whole it being the "final" issue, even though I haven't bought a Spidey book in years.
It was told ok as far as it went, though it's still a bad soap opera plot, and I think Slott is more talented than that.
I gotta say, I've never been a fan of Humberto Ramos's art at all. Pin-ups and things are ok, but his action scenes are so muddled and distorted that for me at least, it's not any fun to look at.
Whole story had a feeling of inevitability, what with the info leaking weeks ago and such, and eh I still don't like the idea, but I can't summon up any nerd rage over it.. for one, I just really don't care any more, not to the level I once did, even as Spider-man is my favorite character, but One More Day effectively ended my interest/worry about any sorta continuity ongoing, so this is just one more thing that I won't be/haven't been reading really.
The hype has gotten a lil ridiculous; and certainly the hate has as well- I think it's a stupid story, but for Slott to get death threats is just silly. Then on the other side Wacker and such talking about it being a "permanent change".. Dude, shut up, no one in the world buys that. Peter's back in the suit by the time the next movie comes out, if not way sooner, and anyone with two working brain cells knows that. If anything, I'd have far more respect for Marvel editorial in that regard if the just copped to the fact that " This gives us an opportunity to tell this story and explore this new version of the character for awhile", instead of straight lying with the idea that it's even meant to last long-term; especially when no one really buys it.
Though that also does throw into question the great gnashing of fanboy teeth. If there's one thing superhero fiction has shown, time and time again, it's that give it awhile, and the status quo will come back. If you don't like it, don't buy it ( and I've stood by that, this issue notwithstanding for like five years now.)
I don't really buy Ock being able to redeem himself. He's been too murder-y for far too long for taking a spin in Peter's noggin to salvage him; and even if it did to an extent, eventually when some other writer gets ahold of him in say five years time, he's just gonna go back to being bespectacled megalomaniac as well.
The MJ relationship does feel like Marvel trolling for trolling's sake going " Ok, see, NOW they're together ha ha" which is a lil off-putting; and while I don't know if it's rape per se, it is really unsavory; much like the whole having Peter recall Ock and May having sex thing was.
Really, the past five or so years of the big Two has just been tedious to me, all of these big events feel joyless and honestly not fun at all.. which is why I finally gave up after Brubaker left Cap, which had been the one book I was still enjoying.
Oh well, at least I've still got Vertigo and Dark Horse.
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Dec 27, 2012 19:45:36 GMT -5
All I can say about this whole Amazing Spider-man thing is it's stupid.
And to the defenses of if you don't like bad things happening to good people, then you won't like Dickens or other classic authors.........the problem with that is, yes.......bad shit can happen to them, but in the end.......it goes well for the good guy in the end.
Amazing Spider-Man #700 is the bad guy does a bad thing to the good guy and gets away with it, while the good guy just dies. No triumphant death or anything like that............he just goes out like a b****.
Oh and let's not even talk about the whole "rape" debate with Otto and MJ. Now, death threats is not the answer, but this comic storyline makes me think that Marvel is getting to that point that DC got to where they had to restart everything because they screwed up so much.
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Post by Michael Coello on Dec 27, 2012 19:49:21 GMT -5
The Spider-man thing is honestly the first time I heard a story of his and went "that is the dumbest thing i ever heard."
Yes, all the previous stories from Spidey, and this is where I draw the line. Go figure.
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Post by Mike Wooster on Dec 27, 2012 21:00:39 GMT -5
Peter Parker does not go out like a bitch at the end of #700. He won. He stopped the villain by convincing him to become a hero.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Dec 27, 2012 21:05:57 GMT -5
Peter Parker does not go out like a bitch at the end of #700. He won. He stopped the villain by convincing him to become a hero. he's still dead. and as someone else said Peter probably ends up going back to being Spider-man in a few months and Otto goes back to being a megalomaniac because comics. the only time redemption works is for minor C level villains like Thunderbolts. and on top of that in the meantime Otto goes and rapes MJ, the first lady of Marvel love interests. yes, it is rape. she doesn't know he's not Peter, it's rape.
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