Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 29,057
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Post by Sephiroth on Jun 19, 2012 5:54:50 GMT -5
I would like to reference a picture that the woman in my sig once put up in her blog-I just wish I could locate it. It was a statement about her as a female gamer, and first it showed a picture of her wearing a helmet from the Halo games, saying "this is how I see myself," then a picture of some bikini clad fantasy girl saying "this is how guys see me," then a picture of a fat girl with glasses saying "this is how the world sees me" and then finally a picture of her fiddling with a game control saying "the truth."
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 23,735
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Post by Bo Rida on Jun 19, 2012 6:32:25 GMT -5
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Jun 19, 2012 10:34:48 GMT -5
this is sadly completely true. my uncle runs a day-care, and has for over 20 years. my aunt (not his wife, his sister-in-law) runs it for him and in the entire time she's run it, she's only ever hired one guy, and he didn't last long because some parents got paranoid about a man watching their children.
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Post by Cyno on Jun 19, 2012 13:25:30 GMT -5
www.1up.com/features/op-ed-heroes-heroines-apples-orangesThis is a really good article that I think everyone should read. Also, Ron Rosenburg really needs to shut the f*** up. His comments do him and the new TR game (which otherwise looks fantastic) much more harm than good. Especially since the controversial "implied rape" scene isn't at all. Failing the QTE just results in Lara dying a grisly death, no rape or even implied rape. Not that death is a better fate than rape, but it seems like one that video games can deal with more maturely and some semblance of understanding. I also find his comment about "guiding" Lara because male gamers can't connect with filling the shoes of a female protagonist to be woefully out of touch not only with female gamers, but many male gamers, too. I can't tell you the amount of times I've seen male gamers play women (in a mature manner, even) not only in video games like MMORPG's, but also in traditional roleplaying games. Same holds true for female gamers using male avatars.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Jun 19, 2012 21:36:44 GMT -5
I also find his comment about "guiding" Lara because male gamers can't connect with filling the shoes of a female protagonist to be woefully out of touch not only with female gamers, but many male gamers, too. I can't tell you the amount of times I've seen male gamers play women (in a mature manner, even) not only in video games like MMORPG's, but also in traditional roleplaying games. Same holds true for female gamers using male avatars. agreed. I much prefer playing as Female Sheppard, for instance.
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Post by Stone Cold Eleanor Shellstrop on Jun 20, 2012 16:51:55 GMT -5
A video that's been making the rounds on Facebook because of my feminist friends or video gamer friends (and/or both) that summarizes the issue of certain gamer response to the "Women vs. Tropes" Kickstarter. vimeo.com/44117178
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Post by Michael Coello on Jun 20, 2012 17:18:42 GMT -5
A video that's been making the rounds on Facebook because of my feminist friends or video gamer friends (and/or both) that summarizes the issue of certain gamer response to the "Women vs. Tropes" Kickstarter. vimeo.com/44117178Because it's much easier to throw everyone on the opposite side of the debate into the same role of a troll than bother to actually take the arguments with merit (and yet, there are a lot of them) and have a discussion of them. ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png)
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Post by Michael Coello on Jun 20, 2012 20:30:14 GMT -5
BTW, I found out that someone made a note of what this woman has access to, according to her video on Kickstarter:
Why did she need 6,000 again?
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Post by HMARK Center on Jun 20, 2012 22:05:38 GMT -5
BTW, I found out that someone made a note of what this woman has access to, according to her video on Kickstarter: Why did she need 6,000 again? DVD distribution, higher quality material to make a thoroughly professional presentation, perhaps hiring a high quality narrator? Plus, use of studio space costs money, perhaps she doesn't have a lease for the studio space she has access to? Travel expenses to consult with experts? As others said, purchasing of certain gaming systems or games to make the research more thorough? Why are you obsessing over this? It's creepy. People keep giving reasonable answers, and you keep ignoring them. The 1UP article that MOP posts brings up an excellent point: very often when this topic comes up, you'll hear guys making arguments that some game protagonists like Kratos serve up an "unrealistic male ideal" or what have you. As the article says, the false premise there is that the person arguing that is ignoring that Kratos, despite his bulging muscles and small amounts of clothing, was still created and is still presented through a male-fantasy lens. He is depicted as all-powerful and fulfills the male escapist fantasy of being able to punch gods in the face while in-universe women fawn over him. Plus, as the article says, while he might be rippling with muscles, he's not the type of man the vast majority of women are attracted to. Beyond that, there's simply the fact that Kratos isn't marketed towards women. However a lot of the women who are treated as eye-candy and are basically defined by their sexuality or their vulnerability are marketed towards men.Ergo, the negative perception cycle continues, because the games keep reinforcing the traditional gender roles.
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Post by Michael Coello on Jun 20, 2012 22:38:02 GMT -5
BTW, I found out that someone made a note of what this woman has access to, according to her video on Kickstarter: Why did she need 6,000 again? DVD distribution, higher quality material to make a thoroughly professional presentation, perhaps hiring a high quality narrator? Plus, use of studio space costs money, perhaps she doesn't have a lease for the studio space she has access to? Travel expenses to consult with experts? As others said, purchasing of certain gaming systems or games to make the research more thorough? Why are you obsessing over this? It's creepy. People keep giving reasonable answers, and you keep ignoring them. The 1UP article that MOP posts brings up an excellent point: very often when this topic comes up, you'll hear guys making arguments that some game protagonists like Kratos serve up an "unrealistic male ideal" or what have you. As the article says, the false premise there is that the person arguing that is ignoring that Kratos, despite his bulging muscles and small amounts of clothing, was still created and is still presented through a male-fantasy lens. He is depicted as all-powerful and fulfills the male escapist fantasy of being able to punch gods in the face while in-universe women fawn over him. Plus, as the article says, while he might be rippling with muscles, he's not the type of man the vast majority of women are attracted to. Beyond that, there's simply the fact that Kratos isn't marketed towards women. However a lot of the women who are treated as eye-candy and are basically defined by their sexuality or their vulnerability are marketed towards men.Ergo, the negative perception cycle continues, because the games keep reinforcing the traditional gender roles. No, I have not heard any good points, all I've heard is "Why are you so obsessed" and "why can't you let her do this?" THAT IS NOT A VALID ARGUMENT! I'm sick and tired of not being able to have a discussion over it on the threat of being called sexist. This has to be said, pure and simple. The fact of the matter is, the person who is asking for the money and planning this project isn't even fit to do it! This woman has distorted facts and figures to suit her own agenda. Also, she is woefully ignorant of the subject matter she is trying to raise money to speak about, not knowing a damn thing about the details of the very people and the very games she herself is speaking out against. Is this topic in need of a conversation? Yes, of course. However, when you are talking about something serious, one expects that you have some decent facts to back it up, or at least something concrete, and not just random game footage taken out of context or even from games that PROMOTE A FEMALE PROTAGONIST! Am I out of line for wanting someone to know what the hell they are talking about? Yet, I can't call her out on this, cause of people on her side calling it "misogynistic hate speech", and gaming media being sure to rush in and white knight this situation without knowing a damn thing about the topic and knowing how to separate the trolls on the video to people who are trying to generate some decent discussion. But nooooo! I get talk of how I'm "obsessed". That's the thing that is making me pissed off here, because I'm trying to argue a point that the opposition is calling me stupid for, without even listening to it! I'm also sick and tired of the discussion of how people like Kratos and Fenix are "male fantasy" and women in games are also "male fantasy" and there's nothing for women to fantasies about. You talk about not being the kind of man a girl would want, the same goes for men. As a man who wants to get himself in shape, I don't want to look like a Kratos nor a Fenix. I don't want to look like Batman or Superman. Also, that's just one aspect of gaming, compared to the more Japanese centric games that do have a more female centric view in mind for characters, adding bishonen looks to men to make them more appealing to the opposite sex, so it's not a one way street. I'm also tired of the ways people seem to mix sex appeal with sexism, as if the mere idea of finding a woman sexy is offensive. It's stupid, is what that is. Someone just being attractive is not sexist. Sexism is all about the actions and the setting, and yet people are still caught up on how big someone's boobs are in a game and not whether she' an actual character. Again, is it so much to ask that, on a topic as important as people are saying is important, to be handled by people that are the best possible to deal with it, and not someone like this who has no idea of how to handle not only the multiple tools she has at her disposal and the avenues that are now open to her, but has a lack of knowledge of the very topic she is trying to investigate! How can that kind of s*** be alright to you? HOW?!
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erisi236
Fry's dog Seymour
... enjoys the rich, smooth taste of Camels.
Not good! Not good! Not good!
Posts: 21,904
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Post by erisi236 on Jun 20, 2012 22:52:28 GMT -5
![](http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f352/erisi236/charityatitsfinest1.jpg) ![](http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f352/erisi236/charityatitsfinest2.jpg) Excuse my editorial laugh.
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Post by Michael Coello on Jun 20, 2012 23:01:27 GMT -5
^erisi, I love you and I want to have your babies.
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King Ghidorah
El Dandy
On Probation for Charges of two counts of Saxual Music.
How Absurd
Posts: 8,330
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Post by King Ghidorah on Jun 20, 2012 23:18:26 GMT -5
I'll piggy back on Mikey. I can't even type what I want to say, chicks like this infuriate me.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jun 20, 2012 23:43:30 GMT -5
Excuse my editorial laugh. Um...no. That's a horrible argument. Good luck with it, though.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jun 21, 2012 0:01:12 GMT -5
Ugh, you know what? Enough of this.
Answer actual nuanced arguments with sheer, blinding, seething rage or snark and this is what you get.
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