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Post by Wolf Hurricane on Oct 22, 2012 18:07:43 GMT -5
I'll quit that opinion when people stop jumping all over every little thing the guy does despite logical reasons as to why he was unable to do something. People can not like him, sure, but I honestly believe that many dislike him because he's a typical WWE hoss and nothing else. He's not a typical WWE hoss. Typical WWE hosses are boring as hell. The Ryback is a hoss that's actually entertaining & fun to watch, for most people... Well for me, he is boring; ergo, he is a typical hoss. As for "logical reasons," when there always has to be one when he can't lift a guy despite hoisting up cruiserweights without a hitch, it ceases to be a reason, it's an excuse. Cena, who's fairly smaller, has picked up much heavier without any "logical reasons" why he couldn't. Same with Cesaro, who's considerably smaller. Even if we're gonna use the excuse that it's the move, then why the hell is he still using it? Go back to the backpack stunner, use the lariat or give him something new altogether. Either way, RyBack's the common denominator - not fat people, not coincidence, not "whiny smarks mad an indie workraetz guy isn't getting that push;" he is. He's the guy who can change his finisher if he can't use it with consistency, he's the guy who can use an alternate when he's against bigger guys or guys he can't lift and he's the guy who can, if he's serious about using that move, either plan ahead to make sure they can take the move properly or work on his upper body strength so he can hulk them up if he needs to. Bottom line, RyBack is ultimately responsible, both for what goes right when it goes right and what goes wrong when it goes wrong. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2012 18:10:24 GMT -5
Tired of this line of thinking that people who don't like a wrestler always have some ulterior motive for it, and framing their opinions as wrong and contrarian. I'm not impressed, he's a hoss and not even a particularly good one, he's over now but I don't think it will last. Disagree, fine, but quit with the condescending marginalization of the other opinion. I'll quit that opinion when people stop jumping all over every little thing the guy does despite logical reasons as to why he was unable to do something. People can not like him, sure, but I honestly believe that many dislike him because he's a typical WWE hoss and nothing else. People like what they like. What he's done so far hasn't impressed some people, so they don't like him yet. I'm willing to have my mind changed, believe me. But I'm not going to start liking him just because the crowd chants Feed Me More. Zack Ryder got over as hell, didn't enjoy him either, and he's no typical WWE hoss. I need substance with the sizzle. And Ryback, powerhouse destroyer of worlds, failing to do his power finishing move twice in the last few weeks, it's an issue worth discussing. There were always reasons why Sin Cara botched in every match at first, and of course they were always the other guy's fault, or because they just can't hang with him or something. This is the same kind of thing. Sin Cara's push never really took off, if this stuff keeps happening with Ryback it will hurt his. |
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Post by hashtagdaley/JudasDay on Oct 22, 2012 18:16:52 GMT -5
His finishers should be 1, backpack stunner, then 2 the massive clothesline or spear.
Back when he was working dark matches he was using an absolutely viscious spear.
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Krimzon
Crow T. Robot
This guy is the man!
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Posts: 43,870
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Post by Krimzon on Oct 22, 2012 18:19:36 GMT -5
There are some things that strength just can't make up for, like space & body construction. As some people have said, Ryback isn't that big. He's just extremely built. Tensai was MUCH bigger than he is, so it makes sense to struggle with the physics of it all. Heyman is pretty much 95% gut, 4% brains, and 1% mouth. It could be tough for Ryback to execute the move on fat guys because his body type just isn't properly built, spacially speaking. It may put too much strain on his head/neck. His wing-span could be too short. He could be too top-heavy. It could throw his center of gravity extremely out of wack. There are a lot of things to factor in besides strength.
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
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Post by Dub H on Oct 22, 2012 18:26:17 GMT -5
He's not a typical WWE hoss. Typical WWE hosses are boring as hell. The Ryback is a hoss that's actually entertaining & fun to watch, for most people... Well for me, he is boring; ergo, he is a typical hoss. As for "logical reasons," when there always has to be one when he can't lift a guy despite hoisting up cruiserweights without a hitch, it ceases to be a reason, it's an excuse. Cena, who's fairly smaller, has picked up much heavier without any "logical reasons" why he couldn't. Same with Cesaro, who's considerably smaller. Even if we're gonna use the excuse that it's the move, then why the hell is he still using it? Go back to the backpack stunner, use the lariat or give him something new altogether. Either way, RyBack's the common denominator - not fat people, not coincidence, not "whiny smarks mad an indie workraetz guy isn't getting that push;" he is. He's the guy who can change his finisher if he can't use it with consistency, he's the guy who can use an alternate when he's against bigger guys or guys he can't lift and he's the guy who can, if he's serious about using that move, either plan ahead to make sure they can take the move properly or work on his upper body strength so he can hulk them up if he needs to. Bottom line, RyBack is ultimately responsible, both for what goes right when it goes right and what goes wrong when it goes wrong. I wont get involve dmuch in that technical part of the discussion,but saying"Well,I find him boring,so my opnion is the one that counts" is really a bad way to place it.Sure you think he is and you have the right to think so, but alot of other people would disagree.. |
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bigbadbull
Don Corleone
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Posts: 1,489
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Post by bigbadbull on Oct 22, 2012 18:43:04 GMT -5
He's not a typical WWE hoss. Typical WWE hosses are boring as hell. The Ryback is a hoss that's actually entertaining & fun to watch, for most people... Well for me, he is boring; ergo, he is a typical hoss. As for "logical reasons," when there always has to be one when he can't lift a guy despite hoisting up cruiserweights without a hitch, it ceases to be a reason, it's an excuse. Cena, who's fairly smaller, has picked up much heavier without any "logical reasons" why he couldn't. Same with Cesaro, who's considerably smaller. Even if we're gonna use the excuse that it's the move, then why the hell is he still using it? Go back to the backpack stunner, use the lariat or give him something new altogether. Either way, RyBack's the common denominator - not fat people, not coincidence, not "whiny smarks mad an indie workraetz guy isn't getting that push;" he is. He's the guy who can change his finisher if he can't use it with consistency, he's the guy who can use an alternate when he's against bigger guys or guys he can't lift and he's the guy who can, if he's serious about using that move, either plan ahead to make sure they can take the move properly or work on his upper body strength so he can hulk them up if he needs to. Bottom line, RyBack is ultimately responsible, both for what goes right when it goes right and what goes wrong when it goes wrong. |
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Post by YiHammer on Oct 22, 2012 18:50:23 GMT -5
Perhaps the reason Ryback couldn't get Paul Heyman up is because Heyman is a near 50-year old guy who has never been anything remotely approaching an athlete who has no business taking anything more complicated than a worked punch to the face? Lol at people that think Heyman, a guy that has taken countless bumps for f***ing years, messed up the move. Maybe Ryback is just an idiot |
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Post by YiHammer on Oct 22, 2012 18:52:39 GMT -5
I bet Cesaro is stronger than The Ryback. Tough to say. Cesaro's finisher makes it much easier to lift larger opponents. If he had to do the Shellshock, he might blow out every very European muscle in his body. You clearly haven't seen Cesaro on the indies. He's picked up guys bigger than Tensai no problem. His muscles are for actual strength. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2012 18:55:15 GMT -5
The Tensai thing seemed like a pretty clear case of sandbagging, but this ... well judging from the clips in that video it seems like they still haven't put together anything resembling an interesting match. Hopefully they're saving the good stuff for the PPV.
Though I love to see botching the Shellshock become his new gimmick
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Post by kamero00 on Oct 22, 2012 18:55:53 GMT -5
He lifts his opponent in the hardest way possible. In stead of just dead lifting them, he should lift the person similar to how Luger lifted people for the torture rack.
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Post by Savage Gambino on Oct 22, 2012 19:04:27 GMT -5
I bet Cesaro is stronger than The Ryback. Tough to say. Cesaro's finisher makes it much easier to lift larger opponents. If he had to do the Shellshock, he might blow out every very European muscle in his body. Let's keep in mind that, for all of the comparisons to Cesaro and Goldberg, their finishers are a suplex and a powerbomb, respectively. Both of those moves are meant to lift people of most, if not all, sizes. Ryback's move, as was pointed out by Legion and others here, is ridiculously impractical, with him basically trying to swing someone over his head and support all of their weight on his neck and shoulders. Which is just fine and dandy until you come across a fat guy who's stomach just isn't going over your head without a fight. Truth be told, I don't know why he just doesn't use a different finisher. Hell, the modified slam variant he did on Heyman actually looked better than the standard version of the move. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2012 19:08:13 GMT -5
When your whole gimmick is being a big, strong monster of a man and you can't consistently pull off a strength-based finisher like that, it's time to reframe the character you're working on.
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Post by Wolf Hurricane on Oct 22, 2012 19:42:47 GMT -5
Well for me, he is boring; ergo, he is a typical hoss. As for "logical reasons," when there always has to be one when he can't lift a guy despite hoisting up cruiserweights without a hitch, it ceases to be a reason, it's an excuse. Cena, who's fairly smaller, has picked up much heavier without any "logical reasons" why he couldn't. Same with Cesaro, who's considerably smaller. Even if we're gonna use the excuse that it's the move, then why the hell is he still using it? Go back to the backpack stunner, use the lariat or give him something new altogether. Either way, RyBack's the common denominator - not fat people, not coincidence, not "whiny smarks mad an indie workraetz guy isn't getting that push;" he is. He's the guy who can change his finisher if he can't use it with consistency, he's the guy who can use an alternate when he's against bigger guys or guys he can't lift and he's the guy who can, if he's serious about using that move, either plan ahead to make sure they can take the move properly or work on his upper body strength so he can hulk them up if he needs to. Bottom line, RyBack is ultimately responsible, both for what goes right when it goes right and what goes wrong when it goes wrong. I wont get involve dmuch in that technical part of the discussion,but saying"Well,I find him boring,so my opnion is the one that counts" is really a bad way to place it.Sure you think he is and you have the right to think so, but alot of other people would disagree.. Didn't mean to come off as "that guy" (I'll leave that to Zaq  ); just saying the idea of whether or not he's entertaining is more opinion than fact. As far as Krimzon's point of "spacial issues;" even if that is the case, it's still up to RyBack to figure out a different avenue to go down, be it an alternate finisher for larger wrestlers or a different finisher altogether. It goes back to my ulterior point; when stuff like this happens, rather than pointing to fat people or the smarks or spacial issues, the buck should stop with RyBack. |
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Jeremy
Hank Scorpio
Horse of a Different Color
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Post by Jeremy on Oct 22, 2012 20:01:26 GMT -5
Awkward finisher anyway. Give him something athletic like an armdrag.
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Chainsaw
T
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It is what it is
Posts: 90,480
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Post by Chainsaw on Oct 22, 2012 20:14:29 GMT -5
I have to say, the modified Jackhammer actually looks cooler.
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percymania
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Percymania will live forever! Oh yeah!
Posts: 17,296
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Post by percymania on Oct 22, 2012 20:37:50 GMT -5
I kinda skipped all the responses, but I think it's just cool Heyman is out there taking bumps at house shows.
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Xifax
Trap-Jaw
keys open doors
Posts: 376
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Post by Xifax on Oct 22, 2012 21:37:22 GMT -5
When your whole gimmick is being a big, strong monster of a man and you can't consistently pull off a strength-based finisher like that, it's time to reframe the character you're working on. I wish his gimmick was the big, strong guy who can't pick people up and doesn't understand why. "but my muscles.... THEY'RE SO BIG! I DON'T UNDERSTAND!" |
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Oct 22, 2012 21:40:53 GMT -5
Awkward finisher anyway. Give him something athletic like an armdrag. No way man... Overdrive is the wave of the future! |
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319 
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Post by mrjl on Oct 22, 2012 21:47:31 GMT -5
He's not a typical WWE hoss. Typical WWE hosses are boring as hell. The Ryback is a hoss that's actually entertaining & fun to watch, for most people... Well for me, he is boring; ergo, he is a typical hoss. As for "logical reasons," when there always has to be one when he can't lift a guy despite hoisting up cruiserweights without a hitch, it ceases to be a reason, it's an excuse. Cena, who's fairly smaller, has picked up much heavier without any "logical reasons" why he couldn't. Same with Cesaro, who's considerably smaller. Even if we're gonna use the excuse that it's the move, then why the hell is he still using it? Go back to the backpack stunner, use the lariat or give him something new altogether. Either way, RyBack's the common denominator - not fat people, not coincidence, not "whiny smarks mad an indie workraetz guy isn't getting that push;" he is. He's the guy who can change his finisher if he can't use it with consistency, he's the guy who can use an alternate when he's against bigger guys or guys he can't lift and he's the guy who can, if he's serious about using that move, either plan ahead to make sure they can take the move properly or work on his upper body strength so he can hulk them up if he needs to. Bottom line, RyBack is ultimately responsible, both for what goes right when it goes right and what goes wrong when it goes wrong. he's only been using that move for about six months and only had problems with it within the last month. It takes time to change things, so maybe this will cause them to decide to abandon the move. I wont get involve dmuch in that technical part of the discussion,but saying"Well,I find him boring,so my opnion is the one that counts" is really a bad way to place it.Sure you think he is and you have the right to think so, but alot of other people would disagree.. Didn't mean to come off as "that guy" (I'll leave that to Zaq ); just saying the idea of whether or not he's entertaining is more opinion than fact. As far as Krimzon's point of "spacial issues;" even if that is the case, it's still up to RyBack to figure out a different avenue to go down, be it an alternate finisher for larger wrestlers or a different finisher altogether. It goes back to my ulterior point; when stuff like this happens, rather than pointing to fat people or the smarks or spacial issues, the buck should stop with RyBack. THe problem for me is that people who don't like him don't act like they just have a different opinion, they act like anyone who disagrees with them is wrong |
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Post by Ecks Ecks Ringout Ecks Ecks on Oct 22, 2012 23:21:41 GMT -5
Ryback botching that awkward-arse move doesn't surprise me.
Heyman taking that bump, that surprises me, especially if he's doing that repeatedly around the house show loop. Kudos to him for being up for it, age and past injuries be damned.
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); just saying the idea of whether or not he's entertaining is more opinion than fact.
