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Post by ohiofan1 on Jan 3, 2012 10:38:22 GMT -5
I thought about this after watching Jericho's return, as when I first saw it; I didn't care for it. I thought it was dragged on forever and didn't care tbh about him coming back. At this point, I'm just expecting him to take time off and come back in a few years. Also, I can't help (and still do) at the tacky light-up coat. Looks like something people wear on New Year's Eve.
I wasn't the only that felt this, as there were others that felt underwhelmed because of unexplained answers/plot holes maybe upcoming. But then watching it a second time made me realize that it was possibly the most genius return WWE has thought of. Jericho just trolling the audience and being a heel at the end after I had questioned why he is a face to begin with?
I realize that you can't judge something just on one view. As wrestling fans, we tend to do this alot. So my question is why? Why do we write off storylines, returns, debuts frequently without giving it a second view or chance?
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PKO
King Koopa
Posts: 12,605
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Post by PKO on Jan 3, 2012 10:53:19 GMT -5
I can only speak for me personally, and I don't do this. I often re-watch stuff before forming a proper opinion on it, and I take a "wait and see" attitude to everything.
This does describe a large portion of wrestling fans on the Internet though.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2012 10:56:20 GMT -5
Fans of everything complain.
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Urethra Franklin
King Koopa
When Toronto sports teams lose, Alison Brie is sad
Posts: 11,089
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Post by Urethra Franklin on Jan 3, 2012 10:58:04 GMT -5
There's always going to be a segment of a fanbase who doesn't like a match, booking decision or storyline, but you can extrapolate that to outside of the world of pro wrestling to just about anything from books to sports to movies to politics to food to whatever.
By nature, we're complainers and, often, our reactions are knee-jerk. If something doesn't fit our ideals to a tee (and the funny thing this, most of the time don't know what the hell they want in the first place), then we feel the need to bitch about it. Obviously, I'm not talking about everybody or all of the time, but how often do you hear somebody start a sentence with "I liked it, but..." or "I had fun, but..." or "It was good, but..."?
It's just who we are.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
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Member is Online
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Jan 3, 2012 11:10:04 GMT -5
Because everyone wants to be the "smartest" fan, so that non-fans will find that being a fan is "respectable".
"Don't you understand? If every [insert something here] fan was like me, you wouldn't think it's so shameful!"
People want a product that they can proudly show to non-fans as being respectable on an intellectual level.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2012 11:44:33 GMT -5
Pro Wrestling gives people plenty of ammo?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2012 11:51:13 GMT -5
I think we complain because we think we could do it better. We think we could have created a better idea, could have booked the angle better, etc.
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zing
Don Corleone
Talk about him more!
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Post by zing on Jan 3, 2012 11:53:59 GMT -5
I think we complain because we think we could do it better. We think we could have created a better idea, could have booked the angle better, etc. Now there's an idea for a WWE network show....
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2012 11:54:18 GMT -5
And to be fair, the phrase "wait and see" has almost become a joke at this point. Fans are burned more often than not by wrestling companies so fool me once cynicism starts to set in. Recent years shows the number of "wait and see" things that actually have the elusive big payoff are slim pickings.
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Turd Ferguson
Hank Scorpio
John Cena: Colossal Douche
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Post by Turd Ferguson on Jan 3, 2012 12:19:30 GMT -5
This thread had so much potential, but is now wasted and has become stale. Better to see it go than even attempt a turnaround at this point.
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Greer
Unicron
Points. Don't. Matter.
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Post by Greer on Jan 3, 2012 12:23:50 GMT -5
Like just about anything. We want something to be perfect for us in every way.
When I say "us", I mean the one person watching, who wants everything to play out in THEIR own way.
I'm VERY guilty of that, which I'm sure everyone on the board is guilty of.
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Post by Cyno on Jan 3, 2012 12:23:58 GMT -5
If it exists, people will bitch about it on the internet.
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Post by jadison on Jan 3, 2012 12:28:16 GMT -5
At the bar I watch PPVs at, there's this guy that's like 35 or so, always wears a trenchcoat and hat like the old Undertaker, there every month...and half the time, he's outside smoking a cigarette saying to anyone who will listen "man I'm gettin too old for this shit. WHY DO I WATCH THIS GAWD!?" It kind of feels like that online sometimes. People hate themselves for still liking wrestling, and this leads to a negative mindset to put themselves above the situation, even though in the end they'll never stop watching.
It's just a theory, and I'm not saying everyone that hates on things is a 35 year old in Undertaker gear that can't escape it, but its part of the phenomenon of wrestling fandom, this weird self-loathing thing that a lot of us tend to have. It's born out of a culture that doesn't understand wrestling and assumes that it's fans are either stupid, homosexual, or some weirdo with a cosplay fetish that doesn't want to grow up. A lot of assumptions are made on a person for enjoying a TV show, and that I think leads to a lot of the constantly-complaining-yet-still-watching-crowd.
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Krimzon
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Post by Krimzon on Jan 3, 2012 12:31:42 GMT -5
Pro wrestling falls under the "sports" umbrella. No fans on the planet complain more about absolutely anything, no matter how minor, than sports fans. People hold their sports in high regards and wear their passion on their sleeves. They don't like it when things don't go how they think they should.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2012 12:49:04 GMT -5
Everywhere in life, many people write off things being stupid at a glance.
When we see something we don't like initially, say "this is stupid" and ignore it, then find out later we were right and it WAS stupid...we remember that. The fact that more often than not we are right, reinforces us continuing.
Just general life context, has nothing to do with wrestling.
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The OP
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
changed his name
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Post by The OP on Jan 3, 2012 13:04:17 GMT -5
First off just let me say that there have been some great posts in this thread already. The responses so far have vastly exceeded any expectations I may have had when I clicked on the thread. I think it's basically a combination of this: Pro wrestling falls under the "sports" umbrella. No fans on the planet complain more about absolutely anything, no matter how minor, than sports fans. People hold their sports in high regards and wear their passion on their sleeves. They don't like it when things don't go how they think they should. and this: At the bar I watch PPVs at, there's this guy that's like 35 or so, always wears a trenchcoat and hat like the old Undertaker, there every month...and half the time, he's outside smoking a cigarette saying to anyone who will listen "man I'm gettin too old for this s***. WHY DO I WATCH THIS GAWD!?" It kind of feels like that online sometimes. People hate themselves for still liking wrestling, and this leads to a negative mindset to put themselves above the situation, even though in the end they'll never stop watching. It's just a theory, and I'm not saying everyone that hates on things is a 35 year old in Undertaker gear that can't escape it, but its part of the phenomenon of wrestling fandom, this weird self-loathing thing that a lot of us tend to have. It's born out of a culture that doesn't understand wrestling and assumes that it's fans are either stupid, homosexual, or some weirdo with a cosplay fetish that doesn't want to grow up. A lot of assumptions are made on a person for enjoying a TV show, and that I think leads to a lot of the constantly-complaining-yet-still-watching-crowd. Fans of regular sports constantly complain that their team's QB didn't throw to someone who was open, somebody swung when they should have bunted, etc. etc. The threat they tend to make is switching their allegiance to a different team, i.e. "If the Cubs don't stop blowing the Series I'm gonna start rooting for the Sox instead". With wrestling everybody knows at this point that the outcomes are planned ahead so the threat is "I'm gonna change the channel if the booking doesn't get better" or "I'm gonna switch to Ring of Honor". It's been interesting for me to see the evolution of debate on this forum, as I've been around since the old Wrestlecrap board (the one before this one). I feel like it used to be more "this guy sucks and I hate him" if people didn't like a wrestler, whereas now it's "the guys is boring and the fans don't react to him". The reason for the change is that people feel like they need to add some kind of non-statistic like that because they think it gives credibility to their opinion and makes them more "right". I believe this is a reactionary response to people being accused of falling for a heel's act if they don't like them, even if the reality is that they have educated themselves about the business and just don't like that person's work. I suppose the bigger issue is really just that people should try to respect each other more and perhaps show a little more humility with their opinions (without having to always qualify yourself though, IMO we already know it's just your opinion), but I'm not about to hold my breath on that one.
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Post by King Boo on Jan 3, 2012 13:09:17 GMT -5
I suppose the bigger issue is really just that people should try to respect each other more and perhaps show a little more humility with their opinions (without having to always qualify yourself though, IMO we already know it's just your opinion), but I'm not about to hold my breath on that one. I could hug you. I'm not holding my breath either though.
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Post by jadison on Jan 3, 2012 13:18:32 GMT -5
I've only been an "online" kind of wrestling fan for about 3 years, but there's a definitely a lot of that going on. A lot of threads devolve into people arguing about who is and isn't over and why, which to me defeats the purpose because we can only decide if one person likes something, and that is ourselves. Just not liking something is reason enough, you don't have to go "seeee? the crowd doesn't care! thats why I don't either!"
Also, because of dirtsheet sites, the fans are influenced to think of everything in business terms, instead of just going gut feeling, do I like this or not? It seems that half the time, half the people on this board are thinking about how "the masses" or "the casual fan" will receive something. That's gonna make it harder to like something too, because at that point you're becoming a critic, you're leaving your own thought process and trying to put yourself in someone else's, someone who doesn't get the show like you do, so of course you're inclined to think critically and negatively.
To each their own, but it seems a lot more fun/less work to just be a fan. That doesn't mean to like everything, but like it/hate it on your own merit, not because you think "ugh the ratings will go down for this segment".
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zeez
Patti Mayonnaise
Yeah. That's right.
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Post by zeez on Jan 3, 2012 13:19:57 GMT -5
Because we're incapable of being satisfied with anything ever?
Because it's much easier to find fault in something than say you liked it?
Because irrational gut reactions are fun?
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Post by MGH on Jan 3, 2012 13:21:25 GMT -5
Also, because of dirtsheet sites, the fans are influenced to think of everything in business terms, instead of just going gut feeling, do I like this or not? It seems that half the time, half the people on this board are thinking about how "the masses" or "the casual fan" will receive something. That's gonna make it harder to like something too, because at that point you're becoming a critic, you're leaving your own thought process and trying to put yourself in someone else's, someone who doesn't get the show like you do, so of course you're inclined to think critically and negatively. You are so spot on with this. It runs rampant here. It's more rare to get a conversation going about preferences and opinion than ever before. All someone wants to do is throw ratings numbers in your face or talk about draws. In the context of a thread about those subjects it's fine, but it's disheartening to see how many people here seem to only think about what they like in wrestling in the context of what everyone else does. No wonder so many come off miserable and negative about everything.
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