Ben Wyatt
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Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jan 16, 2013 16:10:21 GMT -5
Funny you say that, because he has most wins and I believe best winning percentage. Along with 3 rings and 5 SB appearances. The argument can be made. Anyway, wins arent the entire barometer, but for all of the praise and attention Manning gets, for him being annointed the greatest ever by many talking heads, having a sub par W/L record and the most career playoff losses is pretty damning Again, Charles Haley won 5 Superbowls, but you wouldn't try to say that that makes him a better defensive lineman than Reggie White. Also, on Manning's playoff record. He lost to the eventual SuperBowl champs three times in a row('03 and '04 Pats, '05 Steelers because of a missed chip shot), had a 24-28 loss to the Chargers in '07, fifth was to the Chargers again in '08 (game went to overtime and Chargers won coin toss and scored), lost to the Saints in '09 31-17 (which included an endzone drop by Reggie Wayne and a surprise onside kick by the Saints), lost by one point the next year against the Jets, and of course didn't play in 2011. So, yeah. The fact that we're saying Tony Romo and Peyton Manning in the same sentence is pretty laughable. Oh nobody is saying Romo is better. (At least I'm not) But Manning shouldnt get a pass the way he does
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2013 16:11:27 GMT -5
To explain his losses to these guys: - Pennington: Blame Kundiff and his miss game-winning FG That was Kaeding- Cundiff was with the Cowboys in '04. Oh oops, it's sounded the same to me.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jan 16, 2013 16:19:02 GMT -5
Hell say the Pats pull off the two wins in the SB against the Giants. Then you'd have Brady 5-0 in the Superbowl and the qb of a 19-0 team; he'd unquestionably be #1 on the list of greatest ever.
As is, and especially if he gets 'em to a sixth SB and/or fourth win, he'll be in the conversation too.
I'm no Patriots fan, but to me, as great as Peyton is, and he is, Brady has passed Manning. Not by much certainly, and Peyton would be in the discussion of top five or six qbs, but right now, this second, I think you have to put Brady in the rareified air of the top two or three best ever.
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Sektor
Unicron
The OTHER Big Red Machine.
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Post by Sektor on Jan 16, 2013 16:20:27 GMT -5
By that logic, Tom Brady is the greatest quarterback ever in the playoffs because he has more wins than anyone else. Well, no one's going to argue with you on that. Yes, and Peyton Manning has walked into the playoffs time and time again with the allegedly best team in the conference and time and time again, those teams have gone belly-up. Playoff wins are not indicative of a quarterback's ultimate success, although they are a large indicator. I'm fed up with the excuse-making for Manning. He never had the defense in Indy! But then he got the defense, but then he didn't have the weapons offensively! His defense let him down in Denver! How many chances does one guy get? You'd figure after over a decade of failed playoff appearances, we'd finally come to realize what he is. Can't we just call a spade a spade and realize that after eight one-and-done trips and a sub-.500 record after 20 playoff games, Peyton Manning is a choke artist? He won a SuperBowl. And in more than half of those losses he's had good and/or great games. People want to say he's a choke artist because he's statistically great which means he has to be bad at something, right? Peyton Manning has been defined by this idea that if you have consistently great stats and lose in the playoffs, you're just a show pony and don't have the grit or moxy or clutchitude to win the big ones. Let me give you an illustration of why this is wrong. Flip Tom Brady's career, stats and all, starting in '11. He comes in, has brilliant stats, makes it to the Super Bowl and loses. Loses twice to the Jets in two years. Loses again to the Giants in the SuperBowl. Tom Brady would be thought of in the same way that you think of Manning, even though he's the same player. And then when he wins those SuperBowls, he'd be the guy who finally made the leap, and finally got over his own clutch problems. Certain players are defined by how the media wants to fit them in storylines. Manning is one of those players.
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Post by darbus alan on Jan 16, 2013 16:30:45 GMT -5
I really don't get the inferiority complex Brady fans have when it comes to Peyton Manning. Just because people think Manning's one of the greatest ever doesn't invalidate Brady's incredible career.
These guys are #1 and #1-A, once in a lifetime, first ballot hall of fame quarterbacks. The pissing contest's gotten old.
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Post by Hugh Mungus on Jan 16, 2013 21:34:27 GMT -5
'05 Steelers because of a missed chip shot) AKA the game where Peyton threw his O-line under the bus after the Steelers sacked him five times: Nobody on the Patriots side blamed their O-line after the Giants beat up Brady in both SB42 and SB46. Bill Polian blamed the Colts O-line and special teams for their SB44 loss, despite Peyton not getting sacked once by the Saints.
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Post by darbus alan on Jan 16, 2013 22:17:46 GMT -5
You really don't like Bill Polian, do you?
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Post by Hugh Mungus on Jan 16, 2013 22:57:38 GMT -5
You really don't like Bill Polian, do you? I'm just stating what was reported on the major sports sites.
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andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on Jan 17, 2013 3:45:51 GMT -5
Cowboys defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin is reportedly trying to add Bears in-limbo DC Rod Marinelli to his staff in Dallas.
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Toxik916
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Post by Toxik916 on Jan 17, 2013 3:59:28 GMT -5
I'd rather take Eli than Peyton in the playoffs. Inflated stats don't mean shit when the pressure is on.
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andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on Jan 17, 2013 8:13:36 GMT -5
Jaguars hired Gus Bradley as their head coach.
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Post by canceled4truth on Jan 17, 2013 8:35:27 GMT -5
Well, no one's going to argue with you on that. Yes, and Peyton Manning has walked into the playoffs time and time again with the allegedly best team in the conference and time and time again, those teams have gone belly-up. Playoff wins are not indicative of a quarterback's ultimate success, although they are a large indicator. I'm fed up with the excuse-making for Manning. He never had the defense in Indy! But then he got the defense, but then he didn't have the weapons offensively! His defense let him down in Denver! How many chances does one guy get? You'd figure after over a decade of failed playoff appearances, we'd finally come to realize what he is. Can't we just call a spade a spade and realize that after eight one-and-done trips and a sub-.500 record after 20 playoff games, Peyton Manning is a choke artist? He won a SuperBowl. And in more than half of those losses he's had good and/or great games. People want to say he's a choke artist because he's statistically great which means he has to be bad at something, right? Peyton Manning has been defined by this idea that if you have consistently great stats and lose in the playoffs, you're just a show pony and don't have the grit or moxy or clutchitude to win the big ones. Let me give you an illustration of why this is wrong. Flip Tom Brady's career, stats and all, starting in '11. He comes in, has brilliant stats, makes it to the Super Bowl and loses. Loses twice to the Jets in two years. Loses again to the Giants in the SuperBowl. Tom Brady would be thought of in the same way that you think of Manning, even though he's the same player. And then when he wins those SuperBowls, he'd be the guy who finally made the leap, and finally got over his own clutch problems. Certain players are defined by how the media wants to fit them in storylines. Manning is one of those players. At least Brady didn't choke when the pressure was all on him in any of those losses. The only one where he had a horrible stat line was that loss against the Ravens in 2009, and that was the week after he lost his All-Pro wide receiver to a torn ACL. When the spotlight was on Tom Brady, when it was his responsiblity to drive down the field and score, he did it. Super Bowl 36. Super Bowl 38. Now take Peyton when the spotlight is all on him. Against the Ravens in double OT. Against the Saints in the Super Bowl. Second and goal against the Chargers in the wild card. What happened there? Pick. Pick. Four and out. When the spotlight was on him and him only, Peyton failed to do something that Tom Brady, Joe Montana, John Elway, and even his brother Eli had done time and time again. He failed to lead his team down the field and score, and instead caused the game-sealing turnover.
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Post by Error on Jan 17, 2013 10:50:36 GMT -5
The man with the second most game winning drives in history is a choker, amazing. The irrational hatred from Pats fans to Manning is amazing. You've got 3 rings in 5 appearances from Brady but you still feel the need to shit on Manning. That is more than sad.
Anyway, Denver promoted Adam Gase from QB coach to OC insuring more ultraconservative play calling next season.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,816
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jan 17, 2013 11:03:54 GMT -5
The man with the second most game winning drives in history is a choker, amazing. The irrational hatred from Pats fans to Manning is amazing. You've got 3 rings in 5 appearances from Brady but you still feel the need to s*** on Manning. That is more than sad. Peyton Manning is one of the best QB's ever and an absolute first ballot HOFer. Nobody in their right mind will ever question that. As a rival fan, I hate him in a "this guy is damn good" kind of way. As an athelete, I couldn't possibly respect him more than I do. However, for all the accolades and all the hype he gets, Peyton Manning is not the undisputed best QB ever. A lot of talking heads refuse to ever look at the other side of Manning, the guy that when the spotlight shines brightest, he has more often than not, wilted. It's not blind hate from a Pats fan. It's the opinion of someone who has numbers to back him up.
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Sektor
Unicron
The OTHER Big Red Machine.
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Post by Sektor on Jan 17, 2013 11:15:23 GMT -5
I just used numbers to back me up. A lot of those losses were both great games from Peyton and one score losses(and remember kids! You only win about 50% of your one-score games!). His stat line in the playoffs is almost identical to Brady's. He had Hall of Fame and Hall of Very Good receivers his entire career, but also usually had an average or poor defense.
I'm just trying to show that his choker status has been blown way out of proportion. We can all agree to disagree though.
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Post by Error on Jan 17, 2013 11:29:29 GMT -5
The man with the second most game winning drives in history is a choker, amazing. The irrational hatred from Pats fans to Manning is amazing. You've got 3 rings in 5 appearances from Brady but you still feel the need to s*** on Manning. That is more than sad. Peyton Manning is one of the best QB's ever and an absolute first ballot HOFer. Nobody in their right mind will ever question that. As a rival fan, I hate him in a "this guy is damn good" kind of way. As an athelete, I couldn't possibly respect him more than I do. However, for all the accolades and all the hype he gets, Peyton Manning is not the undisputed best QB ever. A lot of talking heads refuse to ever look at the other side of Manning, the guy that when the spotlight shines brightest, he has more often than not, wilted. It's not blind hate from a Pats fan. It's the opinion of someone who has numbers to back him up. Except no one gives a damn but most New England fans when Peyton loses and then blame it all on him and ignore what the rest of the team does. You'll bring it up and crow about it more than anything doing with how good your team is. You're more obsessed with calling Manning a choker than your own damn team being awesome. 7 AFC Title games 12 years, possibly your 6th Super Bowl in 12 years and the only thing y'all want to discuss is Peyton Manning. Sorry but that is sad.
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andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on Jan 17, 2013 11:32:15 GMT -5
GM Kevin Colbert said he will explore drafting a quarterback "above the late rounds" to serve as Ben Roethlisberger's backup.
Ray Lewis said he is not having any second thoughts about his impending retirement.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,816
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jan 17, 2013 11:36:31 GMT -5
Peyton Manning is one of the best QB's ever and an absolute first ballot HOFer. Nobody in their right mind will ever question that. As a rival fan, I hate him in a "this guy is damn good" kind of way. As an athelete, I couldn't possibly respect him more than I do. However, for all the accolades and all the hype he gets, Peyton Manning is not the undisputed best QB ever. A lot of talking heads refuse to ever look at the other side of Manning, the guy that when the spotlight shines brightest, he has more often than not, wilted. It's not blind hate from a Pats fan. It's the opinion of someone who has numbers to back him up. Except no one gives a damn but most New England fans when Peyton loses and then blame it all on him and ignore what the rest of the team does. You'll bring it up and crow about it more than anything doing with how good your team is. You're more obsessed with calling Manning a choker than your own damn team being awesome. 7 AFC Title games 12 years, possibly your 6th Super Bowl in 12 years and the only thing y'all want to discuss is Peyton Manning. Sorry but that is sad. In my expirances, New Englan fans are always being accused of crowing too much about the success of the Patriots. Not to mention, whenever some of us do, its: SPYGATE!!! CHEATERS!!! BELICHEAT!! RAWRZ. (Not everyone, but we get plenty of it, including here)
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,816
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jan 17, 2013 11:39:15 GMT -5
Trust me, I remember the bad old days of being a Pats fan and I know that sports goes in cycles. I completely understand what a rediculous run they've been on
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2013 11:45:14 GMT -5
I'm not entirely certain about Manning but I think Brady is one of the most overrated QBs to ever play the game.
When you have one of the best offensive lines in the entire League and one of the strongest corps of receivers, if you don't post insane stats something is wrong. Not having an offensive line can make a huge difference. Look at the Ravens and Steelers. Both teams have excellent starting QBs and a great selection of wide receivers. Yet Joe and Ben don't have the greatest of numbers. Watching the hits they take and the amazingly bad performances their offensive lines have had can explain that quite easily. Whereas you get Matt Ryan who's not as good as either of those two and has a superior offensive line, and his stats are better. That's really not a surprise.
Brady gets a ton of time to throw the ball, and has great receivers who can make plays. Very seldom does Brady get sacked, much less hit or even hurried. That's also why a mediocre running back like Danny Woodhead can get good yardage.
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