Too many main eventers?

[Hanz Moleman]

Is the problem that simple? I've been watching a bunch of older PPV's, specifically the early 2000s (I stopped watching right when the Invasion was about to happen) and I just can't figure out how they messed up. The product just got so much significantly worse, granted there was a large void left from the Attitude era no longer being current, but what happened?

I look at the product now and go "hmmm...all the pieces seem to be there" but I can't figure out why WWE isn't firing on all cylinders. I actually am enjoying a lot of what is happening right now and maybe its just my older age and I'm smarter, but is WWE just trying to make too many people seem like contenders?

Usually I would never say thats a bad thing but then it really muddles the line between what makes you a midcarder or a main event player.

Just curious on what you guys think is the main issue regarding the E right now.

[The Ichi]

With the amount of shows these days, there has to be a beefy main event scene, otherwise you run the risk of no "never before seen" matches once the big PPVs roll around.

[Push R Truth]

Jan 22, 2013 12:06:49 GMT -5 The Ichi said:

With the amount of shows these days, there has to be a beefy main event scene, otherwise you run the risk of no "never before seen" matches once the big PPVs roll around.

Tonight we have a very special main event ladies and gentile, the NEVER BEFORE SEEN MATCHUP between Shamus and Alberto Del Rio for the World Championship!

[CATCH_US IS the Conversation]

Yes, there are too many guys at that level.

John Cena
CM Punk
Dolph Ziggler
Big Show
Sheamus
Randy Orton
Alberto Del Rio
Daniel Bryan
Kane
Ryback
Wade Barrett
The Miz
Rey Mysterio*
Christian*
Mark Henry*

The problem with trying to create so many main eventers is that it that it has this horrible effect on the entire roster. It seems like Creative gets stuck with a handful of guys that they can't have NOT doing anything, and randomly puts stuff together to make sure they're on PPV/RAW every week. And since these guys absolute "HAVE" to be on TV every week, there's very little room for the undercard guys, who can't get on TV unless they're being used to job to someone in the inner circle.

Even when a main event guy manages to win a midcard title (such as the current Intercontinental Champion Wade Barrett), they don't have midcard feuds, they just run over the low card in squash matches and have random matches with other main eventers until it's time for them to drop the belt.

Everyone is either a main eventer or a jobber. There is no real midcard except for the main eventers who are waiting their turn for a World Title match/run and the newcomers/pet projects who just run over everyone else. The only reason guys like Miz, Wade Barrett, R-Truth or Cody Rhodes are booked as such forces in the midcard is simply because they've already been previously established in programs with main eventers, but anyone who hasn't already been booked at that level (barring Cesaro and Sandow), is just a jobber.

[mizerable]

The competitive field is amazing to what it was 7 years ago. Back when we'd hear reports about how WWE believed that Mark Jindrak could be a top player. Now, you have so many total package wrestlers that you have almost nothing to do for them. Look at Damien Sandow...7 years ago he would have been a top contender on SD within months. But nowadays, he's stuck in the tag team division until something opens up.

[fw91]

more like too many faces

[Wolf Hurricane]

Jan 22, 2013 12:06:49 GMT -5 The Ichi said:

With the amount of shows these days, there has to be a beefy main event scene, otherwise you run the risk of no "never before seen" matches once the big PPVs roll around.

Is that really a big deal, though? A whole lot of times, the main events in the Attitude Era were, for lack of a better word, interchangeable: It was usually some combination of Rock, Austin, Taker, Angle, HHH, with some people like Jericho and Big Show moving up every now and again. I personally wouldn't mind if they only had a few main eventers and, if they needed fresh matchups, used upper-micarders every now and again, but made sure they were just that - upper midcard.

[CM Dazz]

As far as the midcard, its really a simple fix. They need to have guys chase the IC & US titles with the same ferocity/passion as the two world titles are. Establish those two belts, & suddenly half the roster has something to do. Same go's for the tag belts/division.

[mainsupreme]

Actually, they only have one. And that's Cena. Just behind him there's Punk, the rest are just upper midcarders.

They just have too little starpower.

[CATCH_US IS the Conversation]

Jan 23, 2013 5:12:45 GMT -5 mainsupreme said:

Actually, they only have one. And that's Cena. Just behind him there's Punk, the rest are just upper midcarders.

They just have too little starpower.

You're right. They have only one megastar in Cena

But the problem is that they're just pushing way too many people up to World Title level in general, and it's harming the rest of the roster and the other championships as a result.

Like I said, there are too many people that just "have" to be on the shows every week, and it's created a very obvious "Us" and "Them" in regards to who gets showcased.

[Nic Nemeth]

Hell the fact The Shield just debuted and are considered an uppermidcard group says so much about the current staleness and bloatedness in the main-event scene.

[Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!!]

it's not so much that they have too many main eventers so much as there are a lot of guys who they've tried to get over to that point where it didn't really stick but now they're elevated so WWE feels the need to keep them relevant whether they're over or not (see Miz, Swagger before he was buried, Del Rio before he finally came up with something that connected with the audience).

[CATCH_US IS the Conversation]

Jan 23, 2013 9:30:51 GMT -5 Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! said:

it's not so much that they have too many main eventers so much as there are a lot of guys who they've tried to get over to that point where it didn't really stick but now they're elevated so WWE feels the need to keep them relevant whether they're over or not (see Miz, Swagger before he was buried, Del Rio before he finally came up with something that connected with the audience).

And instead of simply trying to seam these guys back in the midcard, they get stuck in this weird middle spot where they're "too good" for the midcard, but WWE won't give them a World Title OR a midcard title any time soon (if they do hold a midcard belt, it's never a factor in anything that they're doing), so they just float around in meaningless feuds or squash the midcard guys and make them look like jobbers.

[The Ichi]

Jan 22, 2013 20:48:41 GMT -5 Wolf Hurricane said:

Jan 22, 2013 12:06:49 GMT -5 The Ichi said:

With the amount of shows these days, there has to be a beefy main event scene, otherwise you run the risk of no "never before seen" matches once the big PPVs roll around.

Is that really a big deal, though? A whole lot of times, the main events in the Attitude Era were, for lack of a better word, interchangeable: It was usually some combination of Rock, Austin, Taker, Angle, HHH, with some people like Jericho and Big Show moving up every now and again. I personally wouldn't mind if they only had a few main eventers and, if they needed fresh matchups, used upper-micarders every now and again, but made sure they were just that - upper midcard.

You really want a main event picture that consists soley of Cena, Punk, Sheamus and Orton (and possibly Del Rio and Big Show)?

[Jimmy]

Dear WWE,

You have too many main eventers. Please fire three. I am not a crackpot.

[Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!!]

yeah there's that too. I think there's also a problem with WWE judging when someone really is suited to the role. Miz for instance IMO had no business ever holding a world title and should've been a career midcarder, which is NOT a bad thing. he was perfectly suited to that. the business runs on this silly idea that unless you're at the top of the card you're worthless, which is an asinine belief in a fake sport. Santino, for instance, that guy will never be a world champion but he's carved a great niche for himself as a career midcarder who will likely outlast many of WWE's failed attempts at making a midcard talent into a main eventer. it's that line of thinking that everyone needs a turn with a world title that just made most of the midcarders look bad and completely devalued the WHC.

[kidglov3s]

Unfortunately they've developed a system where the main event is the midcard and the returning favorites (Undertaker, HHH, Brock Lesnar) are the stars. Far too much mediocrity in what's become termed the main event. It's not like they didn't bring back old stars before, but when they did the new guys outshone them so dramatically that it just made the current guys look even better (Piper in the 90s next to Bret and Shawn).

[xxshoyuweeniexx]

I hate how they've made midcard a "dirty" word or something to be ashamed of. In the 80s and 90s, the midcard was great and there was no shame in people like D'Lo, Val Venis, Junkyard Dog, Mr. Perfect, etc. were over midcard acts and that was fine. It was such a rich midcard along with a rich main event, it felt perfect at times. Even the early 00s it was pretty good, not as good as it could be, but good.

The thing now is that MAIN EVENT means everything and if you're not that, you're a loser nobody that's not worthy of making the show or being vocally jerked off by Michael Cole. And instead of making the midcard seem as important as they did back then, they oversell and over saturate main eventers like Cena and Punk. I understand, they're your main eventers, you hype them, that's good. But the company won't go bankrupt and into the dark years if you build your midcard. Guys like Miz would be good, since he's not that good a 'wrestler' for the main event, but would flourish in the midcard with guys like Gabriel and Kidd where they can help lead him to good matches and he could use his promo skills to get them over. Guys like Ryder, Riley, Santino, 3MB, yes even McGillicutty, should be in line for matches with guys like Cesaro, Sandow, and Kofi, who are used for OMG WHO CAN STOP THIS MAN matches with Ryback and Big Show for some stupid f***ing reason.

And of course someone will chime in and say "It's the talent's job to get over". Well they never get the chance. And if they're not over, then you find something to make them over. WWE has no problem with forcing people who weren't over and shitty for years like Eve and Del Rio down people's throats until something worked. Do the same thing for everyone, it's not a hard concept. So you can have a much richer card all around and everything doesn't feel saturated and stale.

[Wolf Hurricane]

Jan 23, 2013 13:45:01 GMT -5 The Ichi said:

Jan 22, 2013 20:48:41 GMT -5 Wolf Hurricane said:

Is that really a big deal, though? A whole lot of times, the main events in the Attitude Era were, for lack of a better word, interchangeable: It was usually some combination of Rock, Austin, Taker, Angle, HHH, with some people like Jericho and Big Show moving up every now and again. I personally wouldn't mind if they only had a few main eventers and, if they needed fresh matchups, used upper-micarders every now and again, but made sure they were just that - upper midcard.

You really want a main event picture that consists soley of Cena, Punk, Sheamus and Orton (and possibly Del Rio and Big Show)?

No, but that's more a problem of who they are, not how many there are.

[CATCH_US IS the Conversation]

Jan 23, 2013 14:22:51 GMT -5 xxshoyuweeniexx said:

I hate how they've made midcard a "dirty" word or something to be ashamed of. In the 80s and 90s, the midcard was great and there was no shame in people like D'Lo, Val Venis, Junkyard Dog, Mr. Perfect, etc. were over midcard acts and that was fine. It was such a rich midcard along with a rich main event, it felt perfect at times. Even the early 00s it was pretty good, not as good as it could be, but good.

The thing now is that MAIN EVENT means everything and if you're not that, you're a loser nobody that's not worthy of making the show or being vocally jerked off by Michael Cole. And instead of making the midcard seem as important as they did back then, they oversell and over saturate main eventers like Cena and Punk. I understand, they're your main eventers, you hype them, that's good. But the company won't go bankrupt and into the dark years if you build your midcard. Guys like Miz would be good, since he's not that good a 'wrestler' for the main event, but would flourish in the midcard with guys like Gabriel and Kidd where they can help lead him to good matches and he could use his promo skills to get them over. Guys like Ryder, Riley, Santino, 3MB, yes even McGillicutty, should be in line for matches with guys like Cesaro, Sandow, and Kofi, who are used for OMG WHO CAN STOP THIS MAN matches with Ryback and Big Show for some stupid f***ing reason.

And of course someone will chime in and say "It's the talent's job to get over". Well they never get the chance. And if they're not over, then you find something to make them over. WWE has no problem with forcing people who weren't over and s***ty for years like Eve and Del Rio down people's throats until something worked. Do the same thing for everyone, it's not a hard concept. So you can have a much richer card all around and everything doesn't feel saturated and stale.

Honestly, we wouldn't even need two World Titles if WWE started making everyone matter.