Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,151
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Jun 11, 2013 15:26:01 GMT -5
TOO SWEET: From what I remember, Jono claimed: 1. To have roleblocked Wolf who turned out to be mafia. 2. I believe he said he investigated BRB who was also mafia. 3. Killed my first incarnation in this game because I was a top suspect. 4. I think he also claimed to have protected someone during the same time I was killed.
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Post by stinger on Jun 11, 2013 15:50:29 GMT -5
TOO SWEET: From what I remember, Jono claimed: 1. To have roleblocked Wolf who turned out to be mafia. 2. I believe he said he investigated BRB who was also mafia. 3. Killed my first incarnation in this game because I was a top suspect. 4. I think he also claimed to have protected someone during the same time I was killed. He claimed to have protected himself during Night Phase 2.
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MrBRulzOK
Wade Wilson
Mr No-Pants Heathen
Something Witty Here.
Posts: 26,719
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Post by MrBRulzOK on Jun 11, 2013 16:09:02 GMT -5
Okay, I just noticed something. Jono claimed that he was the one to roleblock Hurricane on Day 5, correct?
Well on Night 4 the person that was killed was none other than... Stinger4christ.
So let's take that into account along with the fact that he supposedly fingered BRB as well which lead to his downfall. There's one sticking point that's making me take pause here.
If Stinger was the JoaT and Jono usurped him then why didn't Stinger say something back on Day 2 when he was still alive and kicking? After all if we're to assume that Jono is pretending to have that role it makes no sense that Stinger wouldn't have come right out and contradicted him. He could've easily said that he was the person who actually investigated BRB and we would have been rid of a mafia member just like that on Day 2.
Yet I don't recall him ever even bringing it up after Jono made his claim.
The only other possibility is that Stinger wasn't the original JoaT, but instead it may have been Zack Morris. Remember, Zack also had his demise covered up. Now I'm assuming the janitor role only prevents town from realizing who it was they killed while the Mafia out there gets a sneak peek.
So let's say they killed Zack and find out he was the Jack of all Trades. Brad decides to use his janitor ability and cover it up. Then they hatch a plan where Jono pretends to be the Jack of all Trades. With nobody around to contradict him they basically have free reign to admit whatever they like.
But then that doesn't make sense either because BRB was lynched on Day Two. And Jono claimed to have investigated him before then, right? So if that's the case that seems way too risky a play for scum. They were basically gambling on three things
A: There's a Jack of all Trades in the game.
B: They could find him in the first few night phases and take him out.
C: They wouldn't get roleblocked in the process.
I'm just uncertain that they would take such a huge gamble like that.
So it is with that logic that I think Jono is telling the truth here. Judging by how things have gone thus far I just don't see them being able to pull off such a convoluted scheme like they have, as convenient as it may seem. Even with something like a Role Cop the chances of them sniffing out the Jack of all Trades so quickly seems highly unlikely.
I will admit it is unusual that they're letting Jono stick around even after this revelation, but I feel that's due to the controversy he's inviting along with him. Mafia loves distractions like that, after all, because it keeps them away from investigation themselves.
So that leaves me with Stinger and Magiconz. And I'll be honest... right now Stinger is looking like my best bet.
Sorry for the circular logic, but I wanted to make sure I looked at all the angles here and showed my work. But I tell you, something is definitely fishy about both of those cover ups. The mafia had a reason to pull them both off. And hopefully that reason will become clear in due time, but I don't think either Stinger or Zack were the Jack of Trades.
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Post by stinger on Jun 11, 2013 17:04:34 GMT -5
O If Stinger was the JoaT and Jono usurped him then why didn't Stinger say something back on Day 2 when he was still alive and kicking? After all if we're to assume that Jono is pretending to have that role it makes no sense that Stinger wouldn't have come right out and contradicted him. He could've easily said that he was the person who actually investigated BRB and we would have been rid of a mafia member just like that on Day 2. Yet I don't recall him ever even bringing it up after Jono made his claim. Really? Here is a quote lifted from the old thread. This is exactly what I said: "Hey guys, sorry I haven't been more active, but I've been trying to figure out a way to contribute to the game instead of just posting. This might seem odd and I am really surprising myself by going here, but I doubt the authenticity of JoNo's claim of being the jack of all trades. Here's why: Apr 18, 2013 at 2:09am Jonathan Michaels said: Theory: Zack was Mafia and the Janitor erased that information to prevent us from getting the morale boost from knowing two Mafia got taken out. Just saying the lack of Info doesn't automatically mean he was town. Now, I have a small confession to make. I am not likely to survive the night. I know for a fact, just like I knew BRB was scum, that someone protected me from harm last night. I don't know if anyone targeted me, but I know it would have failed. So thank you for protecting me, whoever, I appreciate it. But let's face it, the Mafia is going to come after me because I helped take one of them out. They think I have some kind of ability, and since we killed their roleblocker, they can't do anything about our abilities except kill us. I made myself a target, but I did it for the greater good. Now, this is important, we need to narrow down our suspects, a solid group of three or four to focus on and do our best to get another scum. He thanks someone for protecting him during the second night phase. He volunteers the information that he was protected and attributes it to some mystery person (probably the Doctor, but perhaps the Jack of All Trades). It would make sense for someone to have protected him here since he had just went all-in on lynching BRB and looked at the time 100% Town. But then, he claims that he is the Jack of All Trades and that it was in fact himself that that protected him during the aforementioned night phase. It just doesn't add up given the way he was talking before. Also, he claims to have used all his abilities, but as Brad pointed out, the JOAT usually has 4 one-shot abilities, and JoNo only listed three that he used (investigating BRB, protecting himself, and killing AH). I have been batting this around in my head since he posted his role claim. It seemed weird to me as to why he would be dishonest about this after pretty much leading the charge to lynch BRB, but I've come to a workable conclusion: JoNo is a third-party. Here is my theory: - JoNo put all his chips on getting a BRB lynch because he genuinely believed he was Mafia, and since his end-game involves eliminating Mafia. This allowed him to blend in as Town. - He then role claims and claims to have used all his abilities so that he is no longer a Mafia target and they will leave him alone since he no longer holds a power role. This will allow him to fly under the radar and work to achieve whatever he needs to to win as a third party. I am anxious to see how this is received. I'm sure it won't be universally accepted, but at least it might get us thinking and discussing something, even if we ultimately decide that I am off base. I think we are in danger of just letting JoNo use the lynch of BRB to slide under the radar for the remainder of the game. So, in conclusion, FOS: Felandria/JoNo."
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Post by stinger on Jun 11, 2013 17:10:28 GMT -5
Also, I think I was mistaken as to which Night Phase he protected claimed to have protected himself. It's been a long time. But what set me off was that it was the same night phase that he claimed someone protected him and thanked that person. Then, later, he claimed he had done it himself.
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Post by Connor Mackenzie on Jun 11, 2013 18:08:15 GMT -5
Up to this point I've leaned towards Jono being town moreso then not but there are certainly some questionable instances that Stinger has brought up. And there are a lot of scenario's at play here that we're trying to sift through. I will agree on one possible thing that Mr. B has brought up and that is that Jono could potentially be a third party. That thought had crossed my mind as well and given what we learned when Joker was lynched I had wondered about that but really there wasn't a lot to go on at that point with regards to that possibility.
Now that we're getting down to the nitty gritty though we need to try and come to an informed consensus on this. We were somehow saved a night kill last night phase. Let's not waste that and do what we can to try and eliminate the mafia.
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MrBRulzOK
Wade Wilson
Mr No-Pants Heathen
Something Witty Here.
Posts: 26,719
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Post by MrBRulzOK on Jun 11, 2013 18:19:18 GMT -5
Actually I hadn't even considered the possibility of a third party. To be honest there's been no real evidence thus far, but you do make some good points there, Stinger.
I should've double-checked before I posted my theory because I do recall that post now that you bring it up. Chalk it up to poor memory on my part.
But if he's a third party that makes his plan sound even more odd. First off how did he peg BRB if he can't actually investigate people? Was it a bluff on his part that he hoped would work out? Is he actually a Jack of all Trades, but one that plays for his own team? Is he a cultist that's been converted?
I get where you're going with this and part of me sees it as a possibility, but with the numbers we currently have it seems odd that a third party still exists aside from the deceased Serial Killer.
There are only eight of us right now. Obviously town outnumbers the Mafia presently or we'd have seen game over already.
So... how many members in this third party do you think there are? I'm thinking it would have to be just one because otherwise it's pretty likely we'd have seen some evidence of them by now. And with all the lynches and nightkills I find it amazing that not a single one of them has turned up.
Even if we assume Stinger and Zack could have been possible third party members why would the Mafia cover that up? They want distractions and the third party is the perfect sort of thing for that. It doesn't make sense to cover that up, unless I'm mistaken and they have no idea what they're covering up when they kill someone.
Let's assume this. That post Jono made was a smokescreen. He made these claims about how the Mafia were after him so that people might see him as a townie, especially after getting rid of BRB. Perhaps he also made these claims because he knew that the Mafia would then stop targetting him. I've noticed in alot of games when somebody says I'm not long for this world that means they won't be going down the next night unless they have a powerful role or prove very dangerous to scum.
So you could be right. He could have been laying low under the radar hoping to steal victory away. But then why would he want to get rid of the Mafia so quickly? After all they are the force that is wittling our town down piece by piece. Ideally he wants to keep enough of them around so they can keep picking off townies until the numbers are more in his favor. Then he could start focusing on them.
I just don't know what to think right now. Honestly at this point I'm leaning back towards my original suspect.
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MrBRulzOK
Wade Wilson
Mr No-Pants Heathen
Something Witty Here.
Posts: 26,719
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Post by MrBRulzOK on Jun 11, 2013 18:23:05 GMT -5
EBWOP: Whoops... make that nine, not eight. I guess that does make it a little more likely.
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Post by Connor Mackenzie on Jun 11, 2013 18:24:24 GMT -5
EBWOP: My mistake on who brought up third party. That was stinger, not Mr. B.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,151
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Jun 11, 2013 18:51:59 GMT -5
Every game that I've been in and that I've seen that had a mafia, town, and a third party other than Cult usually has had only one third party role. I can't think of a case where there has been more than one third party at this moment. Has there ever been a case where you guys have played or seen a game that has had more than one third party role that didn't involve a cult? I'm interested in seeing if there is any precedent for multiple independent third party roles. If there has then I'v never seen it.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,151
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Jun 11, 2013 18:52:52 GMT -5
BTW, Stinger, you probably need to bold your FOS so it can be more noticeable.
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TOO SWEET
Grimlock
Not a doctor, nor do I play one on tv.
Posts: 13,109
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Post by TOO SWEET on Jun 11, 2013 18:58:13 GMT -5
I'd guess its not bolded because its a quote from an old Day Phase, not something he is doing now during this day phase.
Also, Connor, you say that Mr.B brought up Jono being third party, then Mr.B says he never even considered that. What's the story there and who is lying/mis-remembering?
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,151
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Jun 11, 2013 23:45:43 GMT -5
I'd guess its not bolded because its a quote from an old Day Phase, not something he is doing now during this day phase. Also, Connor, you say that Mr.B brought up Jono being third party, then Mr.B says he never even considered that. What's the story there and who is lying/mis-remembering? Stinger brought it up, Connor mistakenly thought it was B, B said he never thought there might be a larger third party, Connor corrected himself. It looks like a misunderstanding to me. My thing is that I don't remember ever seeing or being in a game where there has been more than one major third party role. If there's a serial killer, than there usually isn't another third party role unless there is a cult running around which I really don't think is the case at this point.
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TOO SWEET
Grimlock
Not a doctor, nor do I play one on tv.
Posts: 13,109
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Post by TOO SWEET on Jun 12, 2013 0:15:02 GMT -5
I'll agree with you AH in the way that I'm a little hard pressed to believe he is third party as well. Either mafia or town, but I think there are just too many factors that Jono would have no control of if he was third party.
Either he had the support of his mafia mates which could help hide deaths and influence town opinion or he has been telling the truth, but somehow wound up under Stinger's suspicion for reasons we're not allowed to be told due to him having his death cleaned up by the janitor.
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Jonathan Michaels
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Archduke of Levity
Here since TNA was still kinda okay
Posts: 18,522
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on Jun 12, 2013 1:08:29 GMT -5
O If Stinger was the JoaT and Jono usurped him then why didn't Stinger say something back on Day 2 when he was still alive and kicking? After all if we're to assume that Jono is pretending to have that role it makes no sense that Stinger wouldn't have come right out and contradicted him. He could've easily said that he was the person who actually investigated BRB and we would have been rid of a mafia member just like that on Day 2. Yet I don't recall him ever even bringing it up after Jono made his claim. Really? Here is a quote lifted from the old thread. This is exactly what I said: "Hey guys, sorry I haven't been more active, but I've been trying to figure out a way to contribute to the game instead of just posting. This might seem odd and I am really surprising myself by going here, but I doubt the authenticity of JoNo's claim of being the jack of all trades. Here's why: Apr 18, 2013 at 2:09am Jonathan Michaels said: Theory: Zack was Mafia and the Janitor erased that information to prevent us from getting the morale boost from knowing two Mafia got taken out. Just saying the lack of Info doesn't automatically mean he was town. Now, I have a small confession to make. I am not likely to survive the night. I know for a fact, just like I knew BRB was scum, that someone protected me from harm last night. I don't know if anyone targeted me, but I know it would have failed. So thank you for protecting me, whoever, I appreciate it. But let's face it, the Mafia is going to come after me because I helped take one of them out. They think I have some kind of ability, and since we killed their roleblocker, they can't do anything about our abilities except kill us. I made myself a target, but I did it for the greater good. Now, this is important, we need to narrow down our suspects, a solid group of three or four to focus on and do our best to get another scum. He thanks someone for protecting him during the second night phase. He volunteers the information that he was protected and attributes it to some mystery person (probably the Doctor, but perhaps the Jack of All Trades). It would make sense for someone to have protected him here since he had just went all-in on lynching BRB and looked at the time 100% Town. But then, he claims that he is the Jack of All Trades and that it was in fact himself that that protected him during the aforementioned night phase. It just doesn't add up given the way he was talking before. Also, he claims to have used all his abilities, but as Brad pointed out, the JOAT usually has 4 one-shot abilities, and JoNo only listed three that he used (investigating BRB, protecting himself, and killing AH). I have been batting this around in my head since he posted his role claim. It seemed weird to me as to why he would be dishonest about this after pretty much leading the charge to lynch BRB, but I've come to a workable conclusion: JoNo is a third-party. Here is my theory: - JoNo put all his chips on getting a BRB lynch because he genuinely believed he was Mafia, and since his end-game involves eliminating Mafia. This allowed him to blend in as Town. - He then role claims and claims to have used all his abilities so that he is no longer a Mafia target and they will leave him alone since he no longer holds a power role. This will allow him to fly under the radar and work to achieve whatever he needs to to win as a third party. I am anxious to see how this is received. I'm sure it won't be universally accepted, but at least it might get us thinking and discussing something, even if we ultimately decide that I am off base. I think we are in danger of just letting JoNo use the lynch of BRB to slide under the radar for the remainder of the game. So, in conclusion, FOS: Felandria/JoNo." Nice try, but I already explained that. As I said before, I said I knew someone protected me to throw Mafia off the scent, make them think someone else had protected me so they didn't kill me before I had a chance to use my kill, but the fact that we had two different people being strongly suspected of scumminess forced my hand, we had discussed that killing either of them would give us information at least, so I figured by taking the second one out during the night, we would have even more info to work with. And I said I used them all, you forget I roleblocked Wolf Hurricane.
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TOO SWEET
Grimlock
Not a doctor, nor do I play one on tv.
Posts: 13,109
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Post by TOO SWEET on Jun 12, 2013 1:19:30 GMT -5
Jono: What day phases did you do these actions? TOO SWEET: From what I remember, Jono claimed: 1. To have roleblocked Wolf who turned out to be mafia. 2. I believe he said he investigated BRB who was also mafia. 3. Killed my first incarnation in this game because I was a top suspect. 4. I think he also claimed to have protected someone during the same time I was killed.
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TOO SWEET
Grimlock
Not a doctor, nor do I play one on tv.
Posts: 13,109
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Post by TOO SWEET on Jun 12, 2013 1:20:19 GMT -5
EBWOP: Night phases, not day phases. But you know what I meant.
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Jonathan Michaels
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Archduke of Levity
Here since TNA was still kinda okay
Posts: 18,522
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on Jun 12, 2013 1:27:17 GMT -5
Oh, okay, that was the old thing, I see. Well, since we're quoting old stuff, let me show you why I am telling the truth. Here's some previous stuff to show you what I'm talking about. Here's me trying to hide my roleblock ability. So here's what happened. I killed Artificial Human. I am the Jack of All Trades. I used my investigate on BRB, he came up scum, I put myself out there to get him lynched without giving away my position. The next night I used my protection on myself, suspecting the Mafia would kill me for revenge and buying myself another day to figure out who to use my kill on. Last night, I used my kill on AH, with the lynch of Yami getting nixed, I decided we couldn't let another day go by without information. AH was the other top suspect, so I killed him. It sucks he flipped town. But on the other hand, he flipped town. Which should give us information to work on. I am telling you all this because I used up my powers. So now you know. Discuss. Here's the VERY NEXT POST, giving me away, note that it is from a CONFIRMED SCUM. Doesn't a Jack of all Trades have 4 one shot abilities (Protection, Kill, Investigate & Roleblock) did you not get a Roleblock ability this game? Well anyway that is some interesting information to process right there. Who do you think we should be looking at this day phase? My initial response to Stinger's accusations. Gee, maybe it was because I was trying not to become a target before I got to use my kill. I did that on purpose to send Mafia off my trail. If you should be questioning anyone, it's Brad for bringing up the roleblocker ability I WAS TRYING TO KEEP SECRET. A second response. I don't know if I could use more than one at a time, I never got a clear answer on that. But I investigated Brawler on night one, used the protection on myself suspecting the mafia would come after me for the lynch, killed AH on the third night. I was wanting the Mafia to forget I had a fourth ability so they wouldn't come after me but Brad screwed that up. Now I have to blindly guess who to roleblock tonight, hoping to prevent a town kill, instead of saving it for a crucial moment. It seems to me scum are desperately trying to pin crap on me because they know they're gonna lose. My confirmation of using my last ability. quote author=" Jonathan Michaels" source="/post/9661603/thread" timestamp="1367995027"]I can only confirm the following. I roleblocked Wolf Hurricane last night. So that would likely mean he is not the janitor, it does NOT preclude him from being Mafia.[/quote] I might have more,but I'm posting this first batch before my iPad erases it and I have to start over.
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TOO SWEET
Grimlock
Not a doctor, nor do I play one on tv.
Posts: 13,109
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Post by TOO SWEET on Jun 12, 2013 1:31:08 GMT -5
Can you please answer my questions? I'm genuinely confused as to when you're claiming to have used your abilities.
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Jonathan Michaels
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Archduke of Levity
Here since TNA was still kinda okay
Posts: 18,522
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on Jun 12, 2013 1:33:00 GMT -5
Jono: What day phases did you do these actions? TOO SWEET: From what I remember, Jono claimed: 1. To have roleblocked Wolf who turned out to be mafia. 2. I believe he said he investigated BRB who was also mafia. 3. Killed my first incarnation in this game because I was a top suspect. 4. I think he also claimed to have protected someone during the same time I was killed. Night one I investigated BRB Night two I saved myself. Night three I killed AH Night four I roleblocked Wolf Hurricane
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