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Post by Red Impact on Jul 26, 2013 22:36:42 GMT -5
You're kind of forgetting the 15 or so other people released in the same time frame. The thing being that the talent like Ryan and Tara had monthly pay contracts, even when not used, and that had to add up to a lot. I also believe Prichard was no slouch in that dept, as well as most of the office jobs, as they weren't really apprentice or interns, but management, and those are a bit higher up. Then the development people let go in the name of streamlining and there you go. Again though, you're not explaining why he HAD to go. Or how the (small) amount of money they've saved by firing justifies some of the worst PR they've ever had. He was being overpaid for his job, which had him working a couple of days a month. They'd already paid his bills and tried to give him some training to move on from wrestling, but he didn't want to. Why should he be immune because he was at one time injured but really isn't but is still overpaid to do a simple job? They didn't have a gun to their head, no, but it's pretty naive to pretend like he should be forever immune just because he got hurt on the job. It sucks anytime someone gets fired so the company can save money, I went through several rounds of similar layoffs at my old job and it was stressful as hell, but that's life. And someone who is on the payroll as a courtesy making more than most people is a pretty easy decision to let go. Would it be better if they fired two other people to save the cost of Jesse Sorenson's salary? And is it really the worst PR they've ever had? Maybe I don't follow things as closely as others, but I heard much more of an uproar about getting rid of the six-sided ring than this. Or is this just because of the timing of #askdixie with this, because many of those same people probably would have had some other snarky comment to make. That's what people are on Twitter for.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jul 26, 2013 22:39:01 GMT -5
I was listening to some podcasts discussing this, thinking that Sorenson would be in a spot where he would be avoided for release due to the bad press. After this whole week, I'm guessing Dixie has been lying about her marketing credentials. i'm pretty sure marketing credentials has nothing to do with people on the net being uninformed jackoffs. No, but I'm sure releasing a guy who almost died in your ring and asking people for questions on twitter when your company is in a bit of an iffy spot either means she's lying about her credentials or she's just simply dumb. Let me give a real life example. I used to work for a scaffolding company at Suncor in Fort McMurray called Safway. In October 2012, a worker was injured after falling 16 feet by a ladder. Some guy left it undone while dismantling. Anyway, he had back injuries, facial injuries, was almost paralyzed, etc. fun stuff. Safway did a lot of the same things TNA did. They kept this guy on for ages and he just recently went back on tools for them. Why did they keep him employed? Firstly, if they laid him off for cost cutting reasons, his and my union would f*** Safway right up the ass. It's normal policy to not lay these people off, for PR and moral reasons. When most people get injured on job sites though, if it's not a lost time incident, they will find work for him. This is what TNA did, but outside of going out of business, no company would have ever released Jesse Sorenson. If wrestling had a union, Jesse would still be employed, but whatever. The issue is releasing him maybe their biggest release ever, because if you have to cut this guy, you're in dire straights. So re
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Post by Michael Coello on Jul 26, 2013 22:46:13 GMT -5
i'm pretty sure marketing credentials has nothing to do with people on the net being uninformed jackoffs. No, but I'm sure releasing a guy who almost died in your ring and asking people for questions on twitter when your company is in a bit of an iffy spot either means she's lying about her credentials or she's just simply dumb. Let me give a real life example. I used to work for a scaffolding company at Suncor in Fort McMurray called Safway. In October 2012, a worker was injured after falling 16 feet by a ladder. Some guy left it undone while dismantling. Anyway, he had back injuries, facial injuries, was almost paralyzed, etc. fun stuff. Safway did a lot of the same things TNA did. They kept this guy on for ages and he just recently went back on tools for them. Why did they keep him employed? Firstly, if they laid him off for cost cutting reasons, his and my union would f*** Safway right up the ass. It's normal policy to not lay these people off, for PR and moral reasons. When most people get injured on job sites though, if it's not a lost time incident, they will find work for him. This is what TNA did, but outside of going out of business, no company would have ever released Jesse Sorenson. If wrestling had a union, Jesse would still be employed, but whatever. The issue is releasing him maybe their biggest release ever, because if you have to cut this guy, you're in dire straights. So re Yet, from all the uproar, no one who was crying for Sorensen knew anything about the situation. They just assumed, wrongly, that TNA fired a cripped person. You can't tell me the situation imagined there and the situation in the PW story are black and white depictions.
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Post by CrazySting on Jul 26, 2013 22:46:55 GMT -5
He was being overpaid for his job, which had him working a couple of days a month. They'd already paid his bills and tried to give him some training to move on from wrestling, but he didn't want to. Why should he be immune because he was at one time injured but really isn't but is still overpaid to do a simple job? 1. He was promised a job for life. 2. This wasn't a muscle tear or a sprained ankle. The guy broke his neck and almost died. He also never sued them (which he could have done and would have probably gotten a fortune considering they didn't stop the match right away). 3. And let's not forget: the move that nearly killed him was a high-risk one. You know, the kind TNA has always encouraged their X division wrestlers to do. 4. The guy is probably be going to through some sort of physical therapy for the next few years. I wouldn't say he's perfectly fine. If TNA wouldn't clear him, and these guys will let virtually anyone wrestle, that suggests there are still real issues there.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jul 26, 2013 22:56:19 GMT -5
No, but I'm sure releasing a guy who almost died in your ring and asking people for questions on twitter when your company is in a bit of an iffy spot either means she's lying about her credentials or she's just simply dumb. Let me give a real life example. I used to work for a scaffolding company at Suncor in Fort McMurray called Safway. In October 2012, a worker was injured after falling 16 feet by a ladder. Some guy left it undone while dismantling. Anyway, he had back injuries, facial injuries, was almost paralyzed, etc. fun stuff. Safway did a lot of the same things TNA did. They kept this guy on for ages and he just recently went back on tools for them. Why did they keep him employed? Firstly, if they laid him off for cost cutting reasons, his and my union would f*** Safway right up the ass. It's normal policy to not lay these people off, for PR and moral reasons. When most people get injured on job sites though, if it's not a lost time incident, they will find work for him. This is what TNA did, but outside of going out of business, no company would have ever released Jesse Sorenson. If wrestling had a union, Jesse would still be employed, but whatever. The issue is releasing him maybe their biggest release ever, because if you have to cut this guy, you're in dire straights. So re Yet, from all the uproar, no one who was crying for Sorensen knew anything about the situation. They just assumed, wrongly, that TNA fired a cripped person. You can't tell me the situation imagined there and the situation in the PW story are black and white depictions. Well, they did fire a guy who was crippled in the ring. Who cares how much he was being paid. I'm not really caring about the situation. Unless he asked for his release, then that's different. Who cares if he wants back in the ring. No, until he's medically cleared, he's not going anywhere. That guy who got hurt may've wanted to get back into scaffolding, but if he can't, we're still not just gonna up and fire him.
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Post by CrazySting on Jul 26, 2013 22:59:57 GMT -5
I do love how TNA appear to be giving themselves credit for helping him out with his medical bills and giving him a wage while he was stuck at home and couldn't work after breaking his neck working for them.
It reminds me of that Chris Rock joke about wanting credit for stuff you're SUPPOSED to be doing anyway.
"We paid him a living wage after he got incapacitated working for us!"
"What do you want, TNA, a cookie!?"
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Post by Michael Coello on Jul 26, 2013 23:07:58 GMT -5
I do love how TNA appear to be giving themselves credit for helping him out with his medical bills and giving him a wage while he was stuck at home and couldn't work after breaking his neck working for them. It reminds me of that Chris Rock joke about wanting credit for stuff you're SUPPOSED to be doing anyway. "We paid him a living wage after he got incapacitated working for us!" "What do you want, TNA, a cookie!?" How about some goddamn credit for once, or at all? No, he wasn't promised a job for life. No, he wasn't made to wrestle that style. No, they didn't fire him for the lulz. He was treated better than pretty much any wrestler who has been put in that situation before. He was given a chance to move away from that life that nearly crippled him with training that would have served him better than any roster spot or title. Even the decision to let him go was one that had to be tough, and every person who ever took a business course ever knows that tough choices have to be made sometimes. You got your nose so far up in the clouds, you think you know better than everyone else cause you read a few dirt sheets. Listen, sister, you don't know anything that I don't know, cause you and I are in the same level of outsiders looking in. Stay on the grounds for once.
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kidglov3s
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Post by kidglov3s on Jul 26, 2013 23:08:06 GMT -5
I feel like there's a bigger picture issue here beyond specifics like exactly how much he was being paid or what they do or don't own him.
It's like there's two premises here:
1. TNA is fine, everyone is overreacting. Bad stories are being made up by people who don't like TNA.
2. TNA can't afford to keep Sorensen on payroll, they need to cut anything they possibly can right now.
To me these two premises aren't consistent.
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Post by CrazySting on Jul 26, 2013 23:15:37 GMT -5
No, he wasn't made to wrestle that style. For the record, April Hunter has claimed TNA management will frequently encourage wrestlers to do high risk and unsafe moves. She claimed Desire broke her back in that match they had due to one such move. Alex Shelley apparently once got in trouble after he tried to switch to a more grounded moveset and got told to stick to big spots. TNA have spent years promoting this video game style of wrestling because it's cool/helps make them different from WWE. They've tended to hire wrestlers with that style too and those are the guys who usually get pushed. So absolutely I would put some blame on them for creating an environment in which Zema Ion decided that a dangerous high-flying spot that close to the guard rail was a good idea.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jul 26, 2013 23:16:02 GMT -5
I feel like there's a bigger picture issue here beyond specifics like exactly how much he was being paid or what they do or don't own him. It's like there's two premises here: 1. TNA is fine, everyone is overreacting. Bad stories are being made up by people who don't like TNA. 2. TNA can't afford to keep Sorensen on payroll, they need to cut anything they possibly can right now. To me these two premises aren't consistent. Yeah, that's why this situation maybe TNA'a biggest release ever. If they struggled with releasing him and still did, then they are in rough shape and that's where the demise rumours come in. I can understand why they did it means one of two things. They're either heartless, or they're in really bad shape.
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Post by Michael Coello on Jul 26, 2013 23:23:08 GMT -5
No, he wasn't made to wrestle that style. For the record, April Hunter has claimed TNA management will frequently encourage wrestlers to do high risk and unsafe moves. She claimed Desire broke her back in that match they had due to one such move. Alex Shelley apparently once got in trouble after he tried to switch to a more grounded moveset and got told to stick to big spots. TNA have spent years promoting this video game style of wrestling because it's cool/helps make them different from WWE. They've tended to hire wrestlers with that style too and those are the guys who usually get pushed. So absolutely I would put some blame on them for creating an environment in which Zema Ion decided that a dangerous high-flying spot that close to the guard rail was a good idea. Except that style of wrestling was around long before TNA. From the Luchas and the WCW cruisers and Japan and even in the indies in the early days of TNA's formation, it's not something that was just developed in TNA. Plus, it's hard to say that high risk causes these issues when they can still occur in regular "low risk" matches (ala D-Lo & Droz, Kennedy and Orton) or with the ring itself (X-Pac's tear, Mankind's ear). That's the nature of botches. you can do it 999 times without issue, but it's the 1 that's the problem.
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Post by Michael Coello on Jul 26, 2013 23:28:10 GMT -5
I feel like there's a bigger picture issue here beyond specifics like exactly how much he was being paid or what they do or don't own him. It's like there's two premises here: 1. TNA is fine, everyone is overreacting. Bad stories are being made up by people who don't like TNA. 2. TNA can't afford to keep Sorensen on payroll, they need to cut anything they possibly can right now. To me these two premises aren't consistent. Yeah, that's why this situation maybe TNA'a biggest release ever. If they struggled with releasing him and still did, then they are in rough shape and that's where the demise rumours come in. I can understand why they did it means one of two things. They're either heartless, or they're in really bad shape. The thing with all the TNA death calls is that death is not some sudden thing here that happens over 1 or 2 months. It's something that accumulates and manifests and evolves into a situation where you can't handle it. Even WCW's fall and demise took over 3 years. Since TNA was at least able to function fine before doing the live road shows, it wouldn't exactly be a massive issue until down the life if it wasn't corrected. Not to say there isn't anything to worry about. It's why they're doing this. But it's a big leap to go from "Okay" to "Death's Door" as your only two options.
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Post by CrazySting on Jul 26, 2013 23:28:26 GMT -5
I don't think anyone is claiming TNA invented that style of wrestling. But to encourage guys to do high risk stuff when you're less than eager to pay the medical bills that inevitably come with such a style is morally reprehensible.
Yes, there is always a risk, but some styles are more risky than others. If TNA had banned the riskier stuff,like WWE have, pretty sure the Sorensen thing would never happened. Ion would have been doing something far safer to get a reaction instead.
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Post by Red Impact on Jul 26, 2013 23:33:25 GMT -5
He was being overpaid for his job, which had him working a couple of days a month. They'd already paid his bills and tried to give him some training to move on from wrestling, but he didn't want to. Why should he be immune because he was at one time injured but really isn't but is still overpaid to do a simple job? 1. He was promised a job for life. 2. This wasn't a muscle tear or a sprained ankle. The guy broke his neck and almost died. He also never sued them (which he could have done and would have probably gotten a fortune). 3. And let's not forget: the move that nearly killed him was a high-risk one, you know. the kind TNA has always encouraged their X division wrestlers to do. 4. The guy is probably be going to through some sort of physical therapy for the next few years. I wouldn't say he's perfectly fine. If TNA wouldn't clear him, and these guys will let virtually anyone wrestle, that suggests there are still real issues there. 1. Sucks, but that's life. They probably hadn't anticipated the miraculous recovery that he had, or that he'd be so adamant to return to wrestling before he was medically cleared to. Either way, would it have been better for two people to lose a job so Sorenson could keep his? 2: And he recovered and seems to be fine now. It's a fantastic story. He didn't die, he's walking and able to do just about anything except wrestle, and TNA helped him out throughout all of it. Had they cut him immediately, it'd have been a total dick move, but they didn't. 3: You know what kind of company expects it's small, agile wrestlers to perform moves that would be considered "high risk"? Every modern one, That's the business, that's the style of wrestling he chose to do, and that's hardly something unique to TNA. And that's making the rather hasty assumption that these types of moves are so much worse than non-high risk moves, the type that led to Misawa's death and Droz's paralysis. 4: Why are you making this assumption? I mean, it's either a major HIPPA violation because you've seen his medical records, or you're making assumptions based on the information in the stories that have come out, but that information doesn't gel at all with what you're claiming. Why would he be getting some sort of physical therapy for the next few years (a long time for therapy, mind you)? You don't just get 150 or so sessions dropped on you because you got a neck injury, whether or not you get (or would benefit from) physical therapy depends on what your functional deficits are. Sorenson, according to the story, "can do anything he wants physically." That's not a situation where someone would be getting a huge amount of physical therapy. If he had a major spinal cord injury, then sure, I might see that, but if he really is fine and is just at higher risk of reinjuring the bones that were damaged the first time, then he's probably not getting years of physical therapy. The claim really just makes no sense to me. And what is "fine" really? If a guy is out of the woods after a heinous looking injury and has made nearly a full physical recovery, is it not fine because he's too much at risk for reinjuring himself to go back and do the extremely high risk job?
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jul 26, 2013 23:34:18 GMT -5
Yeah, that's why this situation maybe TNA'a biggest release ever. If they struggled with releasing him and still did, then they are in rough shape and that's where the demise rumours come in. I can understand why they did it means one of two things. They're either heartless, or they're in really bad shape. The thing with all the TNA death calls is that death is not some sudden thing here that happens over 1 or 2 months. It's something that accumulates and manifests and evolves into a situation where you can't handle it. Even WCW's fall and demise took over 3 years. Since TNA was at least able to function fine before doing the live road shows, it wouldn't exactly be a massive issue until down the life if it wasn't corrected. Not to say there isn't anything to worry about. It's why they're doing this. But it's a big leap to go from "Okay" to "Death's Door" as your only two options. Ok, that maybe true. But TNA is not ok. At all. To me, when you release Jesse Sorenson, and I'm not thinking you get the ramifications of this. When you release Jesse Sorenson, you're not in good shape. If this report is true, that TNA strugged with it, it was a hard decision, but they still did it. That's bad. Releasing Jesse Sorenson worries me, because if TNA isn't in good enough shape to keep him around, then they're in a really bad spot. To me, he would have been released if there was no other choice. And maybe TNA had no other choice. No matter how you look it at, it's really bad. And again, going back to my own work experience, currently as management with my scaffolding company, and as a certified NCSO (safety guy), you don't release a guy like Jesse Sorenson, unless you're going out of business.
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Post by Michael Coello on Jul 26, 2013 23:37:00 GMT -5
I don't think anyone is claiming TNA invented that style of wrestling. But to encourage guys to do high risk stuff when you're less than eager to pay the medical bills that inevitably come with such a style is morally reprehensible. Yes, there is always a risk, but some styles are more risky than others. If TNA had banned the riskier stuff,like WWE have, pretty sure the Sorensen thing would never happened. Ion would have been doing something far safer to get a reaction instead. Do you remember the injury? It was a back flip onto Sorensen from the ring post to the floor. kind of a standard cruiser move, to be blunt. Ion's knee hit him square in the neck, and he crumbled to the ground. It wasn't an issue of hitting anything. He had plenty of space to avoid hitting the rail and the area had a mat to absorb fall damage. The thing is that it was miscalculation, and it's hard to tell people "don't miscalculate out there, okay?", especially for something most crusiers know how to do. i mean, pretty much any cruiser has some move that has him fly from the ring to the floor.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jul 26, 2013 23:40:30 GMT -5
I don't think anyone is claiming TNA invented that style of wrestling. But to encourage guys to do high risk stuff when you're less than eager to pay the medical bills that inevitably come with such a style is morally reprehensible. Yes, there is always a risk, but some styles are more risky than others. If TNA had banned the riskier stuff,like WWE have, pretty sure the Sorensen thing would never happened. Ion would have been doing something far safer to get a reaction instead. Do you remember the injury? It was a back flip onto Sorensen from the ring post to the floor. kind of a standard cruiser move, to be blunt. Ion's knee hit him square in the neck, and he crumbled to the ground. It wasn't an issue of hitting anything. He had plenty of space to avoid hitting the rail and the area had a mat to absorb fall damage. The thing is that it was miscalculation, and it's hard to tell people "don't miscalculate out there, okay?", especially for something most crusiers know how to do. i mean, pretty much any cruiser has some move that has him fly from the ring to the floor. Nope. Video evidence makes it easier. Had Ion spread is legs out further, he would have hit the rail. The rails honestly seem closer to the ring then normal to be honest. It looked like Ion almost did it as a reflex in order not to hit the rails as a way of protecting himself. Not to be Captain Hindsight, but he should have done the move by the entrance ramp, where he wouldn't have been a ball and Sorenson could have caught him. Pause the video at 11 seconds. He would have hit the rails, and even if he just missed, the fact that he was so close would have caused him to tuck his legs in on reflex alone.
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Post by Michael Coello on Jul 26, 2013 23:42:27 GMT -5
The thing with all the TNA death calls is that death is not some sudden thing here that happens over 1 or 2 months. It's something that accumulates and manifests and evolves into a situation where you can't handle it. Even WCW's fall and demise took over 3 years. Since TNA was at least able to function fine before doing the live road shows, it wouldn't exactly be a massive issue until down the life if it wasn't corrected. Not to say there isn't anything to worry about. It's why they're doing this. But it's a big leap to go from "Okay" to "Death's Door" as your only two options. Ok, that maybe true. But TNA is not ok. At all. To me, when you release Jesse Sorenson, and I'm not thinking you get the ramifications of this. When you release Jesse Sorenson, you're not in good shape. If this report is true, that TNA strugged with it, it was a hard decision, but they still did it. That's bad. Releasing Jesse Sorenson worries me, because if TNA isn't in good enough shape to keep him around, then they're in a really bad spot. To me, he would have been released if there was no other choice. And maybe TNA had no other choice. No matter how you look it at, it's really bad. And again, going back to my own work experience, currently as management with my scaffolding company, and as a certified NCSO (safety guy), you don't release a guy like Jesse Sorenson, unless you're going out of business. And I think you're looking too much. Again, you can't just say "the only options are fine or death". The world does not work like that. You are also missing the issue of Jesse trying to return to the ring. I mean, if Jesse was gonna return to the ring, you don't think that would be a worse decision? A return to the ring, against medical clearance, would be a better idea? Plus, why have him as a PA when he wants to be an in ring competitor?
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Post by Red Impact on Jul 26, 2013 23:43:20 GMT -5
The thing with all the TNA death calls is that death is not some sudden thing here that happens over 1 or 2 months. It's something that accumulates and manifests and evolves into a situation where you can't handle it. Even WCW's fall and demise took over 3 years. Since TNA was at least able to function fine before doing the live road shows, it wouldn't exactly be a massive issue until down the life if it wasn't corrected. Not to say there isn't anything to worry about. It's why they're doing this. But it's a big leap to go from "Okay" to "Death's Door" as your only two options. Ok, that maybe true. But TNA is not ok. At all. To me, when you release Jesse Sorenson, and I'm not thinking you get the ramifications of this. When you release Jesse Sorenson, you're not in good shape. If this report is true, that TNA strugged with it, it was a hard decision, but they still did it. That's bad. Releasing Jesse Sorenson worries me, because if TNA isn't in good enough shape to keep him around, then they're in a really bad spot. To me, he would have been released if there was no other choice. And maybe TNA had no other choice. No matter how you look it at, it's really bad. And again, going back to my own work experience, currently as management with my scaffolding company, and as a certified NCSO (safety guy), you don't release a guy like Jesse Sorenson, unless you're going out of business. I think it's just different in an entertainment company. After all, didn't WWE release Droz back in 07 or so? And they've hardly gone out of business (at least, I remembered there being an uproar about it. It may have been crap memory on my part.) I wouldn't be surprised if the company was struggling because of the new expenses of going on the road and wanted to make it up somehow, but one individual release isn't really enough to signal the end of days of a company to me.
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Post by Michael Coello on Jul 26, 2013 23:47:42 GMT -5
Do you remember the injury? It was a back flip onto Sorensen from the ring post to the floor. kind of a standard cruiser move, to be blunt. Ion's knee hit him square in the neck, and he crumbled to the ground. It wasn't an issue of hitting anything. He had plenty of space to avoid hitting the rail and the area had a mat to absorb fall damage. The thing is that it was miscalculation, and it's hard to tell people "don't miscalculate out there, okay?", especially for something most crusiers know how to do. i mean, pretty much any cruiser has some move that has him fly from the ring to the floor. Nope. Video evidence makes it easier. Had Ion spread is legs out further, he would have hit the rail. The rails honestly seem closer to the ring then normal to be honest. It looked like Ion almost did it as a reflex in order not to hit the rails as a way of protecting himself. Not to be Captain Hindsight, but he should have done the move by the entrance ramp, where he wouldn't have been a ball and Sorenson could have caught him. Pause the video at 11 seconds. He would have hit the rails, and even if he just missed, the fact that he was so close would have caused him to tuck his legs in on reflex alone. I also was looking at the video, this one in fact, and the thing is that none of what you point out seems apparent in either vid. From the top vantage point, Ion had enough space to open up his legs and could have actually aimed himself closer to the ring to catch Jesse in between his legs. The worse thing would have been a face full of Ion jumk, but that would have been it. Ion landed square in the middle of the mat, not anywhere near the edge, while Jesse himself was closer to the ring than the railing.
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