RIHT
Hank Scorpio
Wanted a title with "YOU'RE WELCOME!" Close enough.
Hey-yo.
Posts: 5,897
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Post by RIHT on Aug 11, 2013 14:25:15 GMT -5
You're just picking bits and pieces from other guys to try to disprove arguments, it doesn't really work that way. Christian was over, and still is. He was much better as a face than as a heel, but timing wise there were just people who were naturally better than him in specific areas that mattered. He's good, but I don't think he was that good at that time. He then jumped to TNA at a bad time, because had he stuck it out, h e might have gotten an ME break all on his own rather than being a thank you to Edge. Christian is over, and he's no Austin or Rock, but Christian was more than he is made out to be. I don't think he was better as a face in 2009-Now, as opposed to his haircut heel run. He could've made a natural face turn, he could've been a heel to use against Cena. Cena needed a sharp contrast to face, and a rapping home-made good guy vs. an obnoxious poser jackass in Christian could've worked. Christian could've been more, and WWE could've been more, too. They ruined the ushering of a brand new era with tons of characters and lots of entertainment. Punk and Bryan look more solidly built though. They come across as small tough "fighters". "Golberg" and "Batista" are tough guy names, so they work. "Sheamus" works as a "he's a comical Irish clown" whimsical name. "Christian" is too non-descript. Ok maybe the name could've been different and he's not jacked, but does that completely negate any assertion that Christian had something in him? Punk is a "skinny fat ass", which in body terms, actually means he's not overweight, but moreso slim and soft, to put it that way. As for Christian, everybody loved Edge more than Christian. Same goes for JoMo over Miz, but the idea of Miz making it big(when he was heel) added to his jackass heel character. Small things like appearance or name don't take everything away from Christian. What kind of name is The Miz? Or Rey Mysterio? HBK? I'm trying to say that Christian had a chance but it was taken away. We can't confirm or deny backstage politics, but he could've been and wasn't. Hell, Gillberg could've been the main event if they pulled it out of their asses to do so. But Christian had something that naturally could've worked. For me, the allure with Christian is that he wasn't supposed to be big. Everyone saying he's small and just average, that made his character. His rapping and comedy was a response to that. He was the little fish in the lake of tuna, but that's what made him stand out. Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, Miz, etc. were little fish in the lake of Cena, Orton, HHH, Batista and the rest. They weren't supposed to be stars, but it was this idea of going against the status quo that made them interesting and oddly fit in the main event. Christian could've been that fit. He never could've been the face of the company. But he could've been right next to it. I feel he's only getting the title match against Del Rio out of sympathy because he's retiring or something. It's too good to be true. I can accept Christian will never be, but maybe WWE should learn from this and we all can hope stuff like this doesn't happen and more stars rise so more talent is there for more time.
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Post by An Old Villain on Aug 11, 2013 14:28:20 GMT -5
If a kid told me Christian was his favorite wrestler, my head would explode.
Christian is like when you meet a friend of a friend for the first time and everything goes well, but when you hang out with that person alone its just awkward and uncomfortable.
If Christian were cereal, hed be Cheerios. There isn't anything wrong with Cheerios but id rather have Cinnamon Toast Crunch or Granola...Cheerios is that "not bad for you" middle ground that doesn't satisfy.
If Christian wasaNike tee shirt hed be the one with a small swoosh on the upper left chest, a gray one.
If Christian was one of The Avengers hed be Hawkeye, if he was one of the Super Friends hed be Hawkman.
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EyeofTyr
Hank Scorpio
Strange and Mystical
Posts: 5,744
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Post by EyeofTyr on Aug 11, 2013 14:29:05 GMT -5
I mean no disrespect to people that feel this way, but I struggle to see how Christian has a worse body than Punk. Or, for that matter one of the most dominant figures in WWE's recent main event history post-wellness in Triple H.
Or, hell, Edge post-wellness when he just got flabbier and flabbier, to the point where it was kind of depressing/embarrassing during his last run prior to retirement.
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Yami Daimao
Patti Mayonnaise
Really, really wants to zigazig ah!
Posts: 31,784
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Post by Yami Daimao on Aug 11, 2013 14:30:11 GMT -5
His 2009 ECW run was the way I want Christian to be remembered. He was the top face of a brand that didn't matter much but still gave the fans willing to watch something to look forward to each week. Everything else is a joke. ECW Champion Christian is probably my favorite era of his. He defended his title on a normal basis, and put on quality main event matches every week, carrying the obscure brand. I hated that the last show of ECW ended with Ezekiel Jackson winning the belt from Christian. Not because Christian lost to Zeke, but because Zeke went on to do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, and hasn't been on WWE TV in over, like, a year. Completely tarnished the work Christian put into making that title mean something. In retrospect, they should have just let him retain it.
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EyeofTyr
Hank Scorpio
Strange and Mystical
Posts: 5,744
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Post by EyeofTyr on Aug 11, 2013 14:33:45 GMT -5
His 2009 ECW run was the way I want Christian to be remembered. He was the top face of a brand that didn't matter much but still gave the fans willing to watch something to look forward to each week. Everything else is a joke. ECW Champion Christian is probably my favorite era of his. He defended his title on a normal basis, and put on quality main event matches every week, carrying the obscure brand. I hated that the last show of ECW ended with Ezekiel Jackson winning the belt from Christian. Not because Christian lost to Zeke, but because Zeke went on to do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, and hasn't been on WWE TV in over, like, a year. Completely tarnished the work Christian put into making that title mean something. In retrospect, they should have just let him retain it. It really is kind of amazing to think about. The ECW title I don't think meant as much at any point in it's history as a brand title as during that Christian period. Or, it at least never felt as important as it did during that period. Even when Ric Flair & Undertaker and co. were coming in to challenge for it or Vince McMahon was walking around with it. There really was something special about that period with Swagger/Dreamer/Regal/Christian acting as the four pillars of ECW's main event scene. Closest I can think of the title seeming important & consistently having great matches surrounding it was when Mark Henry reinvented himself and won it.
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RIHT
Hank Scorpio
Wanted a title with "YOU'RE WELCOME!" Close enough.
Hey-yo.
Posts: 5,897
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Post by RIHT on Aug 11, 2013 14:34:23 GMT -5
His 2009 ECW run was the way I want Christian to be remembered. He was the top face of a brand that didn't matter much but still gave the fans willing to watch something to look forward to each week. Everything else is a joke. ECW Champion Christian is probably my favorite era of his. He defended his title on a normal basis, and put on quality main event matches every week, carrying the obscure brand. Many people look very badly on Christian being relegated to ECW. I have to look back on that stuff, since a decent amount of people rave about it. More champions should defend their titles.
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EyeofTyr
Hank Scorpio
Strange and Mystical
Posts: 5,744
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Post by EyeofTyr on Aug 11, 2013 14:36:47 GMT -5
ECW Champion Christian is probably my favorite era of his. He defended his title on a normal basis, and put on quality main event matches every week, carrying the obscure brand. Many people look very badly on Christian being relegated to ECW. I have to look back on that stuff, since a decent amount of people rave about it. More champions should defend their titles. It was a matter of, it was awesome that Christian was dominating a show and a face of one, and he was consistently putting on great matches & cutting good promos. But, for a lot of people, on the other hand it was frustrating to see him have to do this on the C-brand and not one of the big two shows. Especially when so many were excited to see him leave TNA to come back to WWE, believing he'd take his "rightful place" this time. I really can't think of a bad title defense Christian had at that time period. Even his one with Jackson was pretty entertaining and showed how talented Christian was for carrying a relatively green Jackson through the match when the majority of Jackson's matches outside of squashes up until that point had been train wrecks.
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y4j1981
Dennis Stamp
Rowsdower
Posts: 4,718
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Post by y4j1981 on Aug 11, 2013 14:36:58 GMT -5
when Christian was doing his best Bret Hart version of "Canada is better than the U.S. etc" and when they finally went up to America's hat he of course went heel on Canada and trashed talked them as well I knew WWE didnt have faith in him. I mean its like they were afraid to go that route again and just let him be loved outside the U.S.
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Post by homofojomo on Aug 11, 2013 14:57:37 GMT -5
when Christian was doing his best Bret Hart version of "Canada is better than the U.S. etc" and when they finally went up to America's hat he of course went heel on Canada and trashed talked them as well I knew WWE didnt have faith in him. I mean its like they were afraid to go that route again and just let him be loved outside the U.S. When was this? www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lszDEBi76oHere's him cutting a babyface promo in Canada, while he was a heel in the US.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Aug 11, 2013 15:02:28 GMT -5
ECW Champion Christian is probably my favorite era of his. He defended his title on a normal basis, and put on quality main event matches every week, carrying the obscure brand. I hated that the last show of ECW ended with Ezekiel Jackson winning the belt from Christian. Not because Christian lost to Zeke, but because Zeke went on to do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, and hasn't been on WWE TV in over, like, a year. Completely tarnished the work Christian put into making that title mean something. In retrospect, they should have just let him retain it. It really is kind of amazing to think about. The ECW title I don't think meant as much at any point in it's history as a brand title as during that Christian period. Or, it at least never felt as important as it did during that period. Even when Ric Flair & Undertaker and co. were coming in to challenge for it or Vince McMahon was walking around with it. There really was something special about that period with Swagger/Dreamer/Regal/Christian acting as the four pillars of ECW's main event scene. Closest I can think of the title seeming important & consistently having great matches surrounding it was when Mark Henry reinvented himself and won it. I don't know. The Mark Henry/Matt Hardy feud seemed to be of higher importance in the WWE than any of the other midcard feuds. Matt was even made to look pretty good in the champ vs champ vs champ match on the Smackdown debut. Sure, he took the pin in the end but that was after hitting his finisher on Jericho (HHH hit him from behind to set up the Pedigree to get the win).
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Professor Chaos
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bringer of Destruction and Maker of Doom
Posts: 16,332
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Post by Professor Chaos on Aug 11, 2013 15:13:16 GMT -5
Everything John Cena has should've been Christian's.
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Post by Red Impact on Aug 11, 2013 16:01:07 GMT -5
You're just picking bits and pieces from other guys to try to disprove arguments, it doesn't really work that way. Christian was over, and still is. He was much better as a face than as a heel, but timing wise there were just people who were naturally better than him in specific areas that mattered. He's good, but I don't think he was that good at that time. He then jumped to TNA at a bad time, because had he stuck it out, h e might have gotten an ME break all on his own rather than being a thank you to Edge. Christian is over, and he's no Austin or Rock, but Christian was more than he is made out to be. I don't think he was better as a face in 2009-Now, as opposed to his haircut heel run. He could've made a natural face turn, he could've been a heel to use against Cena. Cena needed a sharp contrast to face, and a rapping home-made good guy vs. an obnoxious poser jackass in Christian could've worked. I said he was over, right there in the post you quoted. I don't know how I'm not making him out to be what he was, and all you're saying is that he could have been this or he could have been that while really ignoring the main point. The thing I'm saying is that the time he was in WWE, before he left, there were just too many people who excelled in areas that he was just pretty good in. He was utiltarian, he had a lot of areas he's good in, but lacks any area that he really excels in. You want to bring up guys and cherry pick a weak point, that misses the point entirely. No wrestler has had every element perfectly, they've all had weaknesses, but for the top guys they've been strong enough in a few areas to make you overlook those weaknesses. Other guys on the roster just outshone Christian in certain key areas while he was there. If it were the early 90's, Christian probably would have had the tool set to be a top guy, but he hit his singles run in a time where the attitude era stars were still around, even if they were at the tail end of their careers, and able to play significant roles and the WWE was throwing everything behind a few new guys. As cliche as it sounds, a guy like that is usually just lost in the shuffle when that happens. There were other guys who fit that top heel role better than him at the time, and by the time his best opportunity opened up, he had left to TNA. Orton supplanted him, and probably would have risen to that role anyways just due to the advantages Orton had by association. When Christian came back, the only real reason why he got that first WHC run was because Edge was leaving and it was a feel good moment. Just because he's over doesn't mean he was destined to be a top heel. A lot of people have been over and haven't fit that role, the attitude era was full of them. There's only ever a top heel. He hasn't been used well, but his ceiling just isn't that high. I think that, at best, he was an upper midcarder who was an occasional main eventer when they needed someone to fill in the role I mean no disrespect to people that feel this way, but I struggle to see how Christian has a worse body than Punk. Or, for that matter one of the most dominant figures in WWE's recent main event history post-wellness in Triple H. Or, hell, Edge post-wellness when he just got flabbier and flabbier, to the point where it was kind of depressing/embarrassing during his last run prior to retirement. If you're looking at it entirely by physique, I may see your point (although HHH has always been bigger than Christian by a good 20 pounds or so, usually muscle), but it's only part of the equation. Edge, I think it's a tossup, but I think his look stood out more and his had a charisma advantage. Punk definitely looks a lot more interesting than Christian does, and it matches his name really well. HHH... is definitely larger than Christian, especially in the time frame we're talking. Bryan, when shaved, is worse.
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RIHT
Hank Scorpio
Wanted a title with "YOU'RE WELCOME!" Close enough.
Hey-yo.
Posts: 5,897
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Post by RIHT on Aug 11, 2013 20:38:53 GMT -5
Christian is over, and he's no Austin or Rock, but Christian was more than he is made out to be. I don't think he was better as a face in 2009-Now, as opposed to his haircut heel run. He could've made a natural face turn, he could've been a heel to use against Cena. Cena needed a sharp contrast to face, and a rapping home-made good guy vs. an obnoxious poser jackass in Christian could've worked. I said he was over, right there in the post you quoted. I don't know how I'm not making him out to be what he was, and all you're saying is that he could have been this or he could have been that while really ignoring the main point. My main point is Christian could've been a top star, but he's not. He will never be at that level. He could have been but wasn't and will never be. I know he could have never been a Cena. Hell, nobody in WWE today really can. CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Orton, Edge, Miz, Ryback(b/c of heel turn), etc. One could also translate my argument about Christian as a top star in 2005 to Chris Jericho as a top star in WCW in the 90s. He had the skills, he had the charisma, he was over, but it never happened. I don't care if others dislike Christian. I don't like Cena or Hogan that much but there's no denying that there was something about them that made them top stars. I feel the same way about Christian. I just feel that he was never made the bigger star he could've been. What if CM Punk never became big? "Well, his tatoos are stupid. And 'CM Punk' is a dumb name." "He's kinda flabby, too." "He's good in the ring and mic, but __________ who's in that spot now is better." That's just how I feel Christian is regarded. I accept that Christian isn't the big star, but I still feel he could've been.
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Post by Shaun2k5 on Aug 11, 2013 23:04:54 GMT -5
Christian seems like a lovely guy and I'm glad they gave him a World Title, he deserves it.
But a consistent main eventer? Sorry, I can't go with that boat.
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Post by Straight Edge Scrotum on Aug 11, 2013 23:16:00 GMT -5
Just...bland. Ive never understood the cult following he has tbh. To me he is the personification of average (as it relates to guys at that level). I don't like his work, or promos. I don't dislike his work, or promos. I don't want to cheer him. I don't want to boo him.
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Post by King Devitt and the Woke Mob on Aug 11, 2013 23:16:01 GMT -5
Just...bland. Ive never understood the cult following he has tbh. To me he is the personification of average (as it relates to guys at that level). I don't like his work, or promos. I don't dislike his work, or promos. I don't want to cheer him. I don't want to boo him. For a quote: If Christian was my girlfriend for a few months then one day I came home from work and Christian had left me a Dear John letter and disappeared, id just shrug and go on with life. Well put.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2013 23:16:41 GMT -5
Christian is comparable to Tommy Dreamer.
He's solid enough to have a good match with anyone, he's recognisable, in the right places he gets a good response.
He's good, he's just not great. There's no shame in it but whether its writing, his delivery, or just bad luck I honestly think his heel run against Orton in 2011 (ONE MORE MATCH!) was the best role for him, a deluded whiney bastard who can't quite get it done against the best guys in the company.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2013 23:17:56 GMT -5
I would use the term ruined, but Christian is so much more interesting and entertaining than he's been able to show since returning to WWE in 2009. I love all of his TNA work that I've seen, he was able to look like a threat and be a heel without being a total goof. And since he came back, he's only been an extremely dry babyface or an inept whiny heel. They don't see him as being the guy that he can be, imo.
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Post by cool guy on Aug 11, 2013 23:19:59 GMT -5
I'm honestly baffled at the people saying Christian is just mediocre in the ring. I mean, I can see some validity in the other criticisms, but give Christian 15 minutes with just about anyone on the roster and you're going to get something great.
Hell, he's gotten better matches out of Del Rio and Orton than either Punk or Bryan have.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2013 23:29:54 GMT -5
I'm honestly baffled at the people saying Christian is just mediocre in the ring. I mean, I can see some validity in the other criticisms, but give Christian 15 minutes with just about anyone on the roster and you're going to get something great. Hell, he's gotten better matches out of Del Rio and Orton than either Punk or Bryan have. And that's recent beat up Christian. When he first retuned back in 2009, he was on a mission and he was awesome. Bumping like a madman, having great long TV matches every week, he was the best thing in the company at the time. With all his injuries and 4 more years on his body he's not qutie what he was. But he's 40, and still killing it whenever his number is called. I feel like he's so consistently solid he's taken for granted.
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