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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 18:31:23 GMT -5
They really underplayed Punk's return, to the point where we weren't all that sure Punk even going to be there at first. It was against Jericho, which we saw twice a year ago on PPV, in a meaningless match with an out of nowhere set up.
I think Meltzer's reasoning is poor here.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 18:32:15 GMT -5
Don't know about PPV, but Punk isn't a ratings draw. Raw was doing frigging 2.5s and 2.7s on a regular basis when he champion and WWE was building Raw around his reign. Say what you want about Cena, but at least they're doing 3.0s on a regular basis again. Wasn't Cena the focus regardless who held the belt? He main evented most PPV's even as non-champion.
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Post by adam3s on Aug 12, 2013 18:32:56 GMT -5
Meh, i have no beef with Meltzer, but when i listen to people talking about "draws" in the current WWE structure, I just switch off. Punk was champion for a year, buyrates hovered at the same rate, ratings hovered at their same high-2/low-3 point, he sold big quantities of merch, there were plenty of people there to see him at shows. Nobody "draws" in the WWE structure, there is such a heavy sense of overexposure so nobody can really become a guy who you'd specifically pay PPV money to see, especially when Cena and Punk are wrestling a 20 minute WrestleMania main event on free TV. It's what works so well about having Brock Lesnar. He is a special attraction, and he is treated like one. It's just one of the unfortunate side effects of the TV model that began in the Attitude Era that we're seeing today, it's that you aren't going to pop big buyrates for these low-end PPVs that are ultimately meaningless even if someone like CM Punk is having a big comeback match. We've seen him wrestle Chris Jericho earlier that year in what was considered a great match. Royal Rumble, Money In The Bank and WrestleMania are the only Pay Per Views that really mean anything. Not to mention Punk wasn't exactly gone that long. Punk moves merchandise second only to Cena most of the time and in 2013 that's a draw.
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Post by Glitch on Aug 12, 2013 18:34:00 GMT -5
He does? Punk's got some weird fetishes, man.
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Post by celticjobber on Aug 12, 2013 18:36:23 GMT -5
Meltzer's not "turning on" Punk. He's simply stating facts (or atleast the facts as he sees them).
Just because Punk isn't a huge draw, it doesn't mean that he sucks. It just means he's not catching on much with the casual Cena-loving audience.
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Post by MrBRulzOK on Aug 12, 2013 18:37:13 GMT -5
I wouldn't say he turned on the guy; he was just saying that the buyrate is pretty good evidence that Punk isn't a draw.
And Dave was critical about New Japan as well in regards to how they ran the G1 Tournament. So it's not like he's biased towards any one promotion.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 18:37:45 GMT -5
Except that Meltzer has nothing to back up his claims. This is just his opinion like anyone elses, he don't know shit.
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Post by Sam Punk on Aug 12, 2013 18:38:10 GMT -5
Well punk isn't a draw.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Aug 12, 2013 18:39:01 GMT -5
There's no one in the company that could leave for a few months, come back, and have their first match back pop a buyrate unless it was some dream match. Unless you want to count someone like The Rock who isn't on the roster. Does that mean no one on the fulltime roster is a real draw? Maybe so. I think the idea of what could be once considered a draw has evolved drastically, and I don't think it's a matter of bad writing or the talent not being that memorable so much as the nature of the business has changed so much. Diehard fans are more diverse and polarized, and fairweather fans's taste are more fleeting. One wrestler isn't magically gonna hook every single demo anymore.
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Post by Djm Doesn't Find You Funny on Aug 12, 2013 18:39:02 GMT -5
There is no draw in WWE beyond the WWE name itself.
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Post by celticjobber on Aug 12, 2013 18:39:20 GMT -5
Except that Meltzer has nothing to back up his claims. This is just his opinion like anyone elses, he don't know shit. Meltzer's been covering the business for several decades. Dave knows his shit when it comes to pro wrestling.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 18:40:40 GMT -5
Meltzer. Doesn't know the difference between "Smackdown Announcer No.1" Funaki and "Gracie Killer" Funaki. But I'm sure Punk is crying himself to sleep on his mountain of money surrounded by beautiful women
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Post by CrazySting on Aug 12, 2013 18:43:02 GMT -5
Meltzer. Doesn't know the difference between "Smackdown Announcer No.1" Funaki and "Gracie Killer" Funaki. But I'm sure Punk is crying himself to sleep on his mountain of money surrounded by beautiful women Considering how much he freaked out last year when the ratings plummeted (to the point he was actually throwing Bischoff-esque tantrums on Raw and TELLING people to change the channel) safe to say his inability to draw well IS a touchy subject with him.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 18:43:26 GMT -5
The glut of performers one expects to see when attending or watching a WWE show, as a collective, are the draw. That doesn't mean some guys aren't more important to said glut, but WWE is set up where one guy doesn't mean all that much in the grand scheme. If John Cena was done, tomorrow, I don't think WWE's business would suffer heavily. I may be wrong about that, but I think they'd just fill the gap with more Bryan/Punk/Sheamus/Orton/whatever heels they can conjure up and things would continue as normal.
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Post by KobashiChop on Aug 12, 2013 18:53:15 GMT -5
Meltzer. Doesn't know the difference between "Smackdown Announcer No.1" Funaki and "Gracie Killer" Funaki. But I'm sure Punk is crying himself to sleep on his mountain of money surrounded by beautiful women Not to be "that guy", but Kazushi Sakuraba is the Gracie Hunter. Not Masakatsu Funaki.
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Post by Mesousa287793 on Aug 12, 2013 18:55:56 GMT -5
Either way, tons of fans dig him, Meltzer. I'll give you the "whatever" treatment. Royal Rumble, Money In The Bank and WrestleMania are the only Pay Per Views that really mean anything. And technically Extreme Rules. Sometimes.
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Aug 12, 2013 18:56:58 GMT -5
Of course the PPV did an awful buyrate, you could watch Sheamus' match for free on the preshow.
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Post by Chip on Aug 12, 2013 19:08:13 GMT -5
As someone that was super excited for Punks return, I was really bummed to find out he'd be wrestling Jericho, when they announced that the screen may as well have just flashed up "Nothing cool or interesting is going to happen in this match". I just don't care about Jericho anymore in any capacity. Even then with the way they had set it up it was really hard to tell if he was actually even going to be there or not. They spend so long painting Heyman as this huge liar then expect us to take his word on Punks return, seemed backwards.
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Post by The Gambler Fan on Aug 12, 2013 19:18:57 GMT -5
I keep hearing people claim that no one draws big numbers anymore and the WWE name is the real selling point. If that is true then the WWE should fire Cena, Orton and Punk because they all make over one million dollars a year. Then they should replace them with no names who will agree to wrestle for $60,000 a year. Ratings and buy rates will stay the same while WWE will save a lot of money.
I could have told Meltzer’s two years ago that Punk is not a big draw. He is fine as an upper mid carder but he does not have what it takes to be the top guy. This supports my theory that Punk is only over with hardcore fans. Hardcore fans act as if he is as big as Stone Cold and the Rock combine. In reality, he is as big as Chris Jericho and Bret Hart. Hart and Jericho are well known wrestlers but not as well-known as The Rock or Austin (during his prime).
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 19:21:47 GMT -5
Another thing to consider is I remember many people didn't think Punk was actually going to wrestle on the show. It seemed odd that Punk was going to have a random match with Jericho for seemingly no reason as his return match. The pay-per-view as a whole was also built up pretty poorly with the mediocre Cena/Ryback feud being the big selling point.
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