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Post by celticjobber on Aug 12, 2013 19:28:55 GMT -5
Another thing to consider is I remember many people didn't think Punk was actually going to wrestle on the show. It seemed odd that Punk was going to have a random match with Jericho for seemingly no reason as his return match. The pay-per-view as a whole was also built up pretty poorly with the mediocre Cena/Ryback feud being the big selling point. I know that some people did, but I really don't see how anyone could've legit thought that WWE would have Punk no-show in Chicago. That would've been a terrible business decision. Such a stupid deception could've killed their ticket sales in that city for a decade. And it would've also hurt future PPV sales if they decide to have someone return on a show to pop a buyrate in the future.
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BigBadZ
Grimlock
The Rumors Are All True
Posts: 13,923
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Post by BigBadZ on Aug 12, 2013 19:35:23 GMT -5
I try to never blame specific people or story lines or match card when a ppv has low buyrates (except idiot things like that ppv with Cena vs Johnny Ace with the Big Show heel turn that Ray Charles saw coming). I put the blame on having so many ppv's each year and being $50-60 a pop. It has to be something really special for me to buy anything that isn't the Royal Rumble or WrestleMania. This SummerSlam will be the first one I have bought since 2003
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Post by grimbiniho on Aug 12, 2013 20:11:39 GMT -5
I keep hearing people claim that no one draws big numbers anymore and the WWE name is the real selling point. If that is true then the WWE should fire Cena, Orton and Punk because they all make over one million dollars a year. Then they should replace them with no names who will agree to wrestle for $60,000 a year. Ratings and buy rates will stay the same while WWE will save a lot of money. I could have told Meltzer’s two years ago that Punk is not a big draw. He is fine as an upper mid carder but he does not have what it takes to be the top guy. This supports my theory that Punk is only over with hardcore fans. Hardcore fans act as if he is as big as Stone Cold and the Rock combine. In reality, he is as big as Chris Jericho and Bret Hart. Hart and Jericho are well known wrestlers but not as well-known as The Rock or Austin (during his prime). That's not what people mean by the WWE brand been the selling point. It's the collection of stars underneath that umbrella who have built a connection with fans over xxx amount of years. The idea is that people are paying more for the whole collective of wrestlers they're interested in rather than any specific individual. Nobody's trying to say that if you fired Punk, Orton and Cena and replaced them with Curt Hawkins, Hunico and Brooklyn Brawler that PPV sales would be the same. It clearly wouldn't be the case.
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Post by nickcave on Aug 12, 2013 20:30:43 GMT -5
If you're going by that logic than Cena isn't a draw either since Cena-Ryback got the most buildup time and was the main event. Punk's return was pretty much treated as an afterthought in the buildup
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metylerca
King Koopa
Loves Him Some Backstreet Boys.
Don't be alarmed.
Posts: 12,479
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Post by metylerca on Aug 12, 2013 20:34:07 GMT -5
Let's be honest here. The ONLY reason people cite drawing ability for wrestling discussion is to justify how much they like/dislike somebody. If Punk drew more, you'd have people saying "IWC isn't as small as you anti-IWC thinks, lololol".
If Cena drew lower, it'd be "I guess that cash cow finally got milked dry. Don't you feel stupid Vince?" (they'd be addressing Vince McMahon in this example.)
If for some reason Orton drew a lot, the reasoning would be "people like shitty wrestlers, WWE brainwashed them."
There's no point in talking about numbers, they're only argument fuel.
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Post by Bear Skin Rug on Aug 12, 2013 20:34:28 GMT -5
I don't like Punk at all and I agree that he isn't a draw, but what do they f***ing expect when they build one Superstar as 100x more credible than anyone else?
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Post by celticjobber on Aug 12, 2013 20:38:16 GMT -5
Let's be honest here. The ONLY reason people cite drawing ability for wrestling discussion is to justify how much they like/dislike somebody. If Punk drew more, you'd have people saying "IWC isn't as small as you anti-IWC thinks, lololol". If Cena drew lower, it'd be "I guess that cash cow finally got milked dry. Don't you feel stupid Vince?" (they'd be addressing Vince McMahon in this example.) If for some reason Orton drew a lot, the reasoning would be "people like shitty wrestlers, WWE brainwashed them." There's no point in talking about numbers, they're only argument fuel. I disagree. We're only being realistic. I'm a huge fan of Punk, but I don't think he's "mainstream" and that will hurt him from drawing like Cena does. And I'm not a fan of Cena's at all.
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JTH
Dennis Stamp
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Posts: 4,467
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Post by JTH on Aug 12, 2013 20:48:56 GMT -5
Don't know about PPV, but Punk isn't a ratings draw. Raw was doing frigging 2.5s and 2.7s on a regular basis when he champion and WWE was building Raw around his reign. Say what you want about Cena, but at least they're doing 3.0s on a regular basis again. But you could make the case that it's because Brock Lesnar is back on TV on more regular basis, who just happens to be feuding with the guy who can't draw.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 20:51:26 GMT -5
Its funny because he's been a heel for most of his WWE run.
He was face for a bit during the terrible Nash/HHH stuff, but became a heel with Heyman and his year+ reign.
He JUST now turned face again with the Lesnar feud.
That is to say, when a company isn't drawing more people you don't point the finger at the heels.
Cena has been holding steady I guess.
The Rock's impact on WWE was strong, but fell off rather quickly.
Other than that you're left with Orton and HHH.
Same dudes since like 2002.
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Post by dudebusterfan91 on Aug 12, 2013 21:08:36 GMT -5
Meltzer is a douche who thinks hes important never liked him and what he says doesn't mean anything
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 21:39:34 GMT -5
Except that Meltzer has nothing to back up his claims. This is just his opinion like anyone elses, he don't know shit. Meltzer's been covering the business for several decades. Dave knows his shit when it comes to pro wrestling. I don't doubt he has inside sources or whatever. What the OP posted was Meltzer's opinion though. One PPV buyrate doesn't prove diddily squat. Cena is the one who main evented Payback, why is he blaming Punk?
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Aug 12, 2013 21:40:26 GMT -5
And yet, Punk still moves boatloads of merchandise. Does it really matter if he can't spike buyrates for a random PPV? Undertaker, Shawn Michaels, and Triple H weren't "draws" in their primes either. I guess they suck, too.
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Crimson
Hank Scorpio
Thank you DWade
Posts: 6,511
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Post by Crimson on Aug 12, 2013 21:43:46 GMT -5
Meltzer is a douche who thinks hes important never liked him and what he says doesn't mean anything Sounds like he touched a nerve.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 22:17:25 GMT -5
I keep hearing people claim that no one draws big numbers anymore and the WWE name is the real selling point. If that is true then the WWE should fire Cena, Orton and Punk because they all make over one million dollars a year. Then they should replace them with no names who will agree to wrestle for $60,000 a year. Ratings and buy rates will stay the same while WWE will save a lot of money. I could have told Meltzer’s two years ago that Punk is not a big draw. He is fine as an upper mid carder but he does not have what it takes to be the top guy. This supports my theory that Punk is only over with hardcore fans. Hardcore fans act as if he is as big as Stone Cold and the Rock combine. In reality, he is as big as Chris Jericho and Bret Hart. Hart and Jericho are well known wrestlers but not as well-known as The Rock or Austin (during his prime). I have literally never seen anyone say Punk is known on the level of Austin and Rock. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with being a Chris Jericho or Bret Hart.
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Post by CrazySting on Aug 12, 2013 22:21:31 GMT -5
For all the hype it seems to have, I'm not sure there's that much of an interest in a potential Punk/Austin match either.
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Post by cabbageboy on Aug 12, 2013 22:43:00 GMT -5
This is bizarre since the whole Jericho/Heyman build to that match was incoherent. Heyman accepted on Punk's behalf, there was haziness as to whether he would show, etc. And let's not forget that he was facing Jericho yet again (who he feuded with last year) and Jericho had just jobbed to freakin FANDANGO. Did anyone seriously think Jericho had a chance of beating Punk in Chicago?
Further, Ryback had zero heat or momentum by the time he faced Cena. In fact I still don't know why he was #1 contender since he had jobbed clean to Mark Henry at WM. In other words, in these two big matches you had one guy in a title match with no heat or momentum who hadn't earned the shot at all, and the other match was stale and featured a guy coming off a WM loss to a dancing comedy act.
By Meltzer's logic, let's say the MITB buyrate comes in and it was a smash hit. Will he then turn around and go "OMG RVD rules! He drew the buyrate!?" I tend to think not, probably because MITB is a bigger drawing PPV than a random jobber PPV like Payback anyway.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 42,416
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Aug 12, 2013 22:45:46 GMT -5
If it weren't for Punk I wouldn't watch WWE at all anymore and even then I just watch his segments.
Go back and look at the shit I said about Punk when he first came in. I'm certainly no indy/ROH/Punk fanboy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 23:00:59 GMT -5
This is the worst night of CM Punk's life.
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Post by MGH on Aug 12, 2013 23:02:17 GMT -5
Haha, that thread title sounds so damn dramatic.
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Post by thegame415 on Aug 13, 2013 0:55:34 GMT -5
A. Does the June PPV ever draw anymore?
B. I hate the fact that people say Punk isn't a draw. OK, then Bret and Shawn weren't draws either.
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