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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2013 1:06:55 GMT -5
Maybe I'm late, but back when I did listen to Observer I thought Meltzer was generally consistent with who was a draw in the WWE.
Only John Cena and nobody else, and that's because of all the years they spent protecting him. Brock is a decent special attraction, but he's not drawing near the ridiculous numbers WWE expected to justify his contract but that's not Brock's fault.
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RIHT
Hank Scorpio
Wanted a title with "YOU'RE WELCOME!" Close enough.
Hey-yo.
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Post by RIHT on Aug 13, 2013 1:20:57 GMT -5
Rest of the PPV didn't look good. Ryback vs. Cena again? And surpassed Punk as the main event? WWE will never blame a Cena/mega-star main event for low PPV buys or ratings , so they go to the little guy. Miz was blamed for low Survivor Series buys in 2011 even when the Rock was on the show. Punk's been blamed a lot when he was champ, too, so Cena main evented the PPVs in 2012. Bryan was blamed for low-ratings on Raw a few weeks ago(even though he's the hottest star in WWE right now). WWE can't just expect to sell a PPV with one or two names.
If Payback had Brock Lesnar vs. Undertaker on the card, but then Hunico vs. Epico, Wade Barrett vs. Bo Dallas in a strap match, Tensai holding an open challenge dance-off, AJ in oversized loose clothing that hid her delicious ass, Khali facing Jack Swagger for the US title, and Michael Cole vs. Jerry Lawler, I wouldn't buy that PPV.
I also did not buy Payback. It was better than expected(I have my ways), but I was not hyped enough to buy it. Same goes for practically every PPV. $60 is a lot. Wrestlemania feels like a forced responsibility to buy. There's the spectacle and a few good matches, but I'd never buy it without sharing the cost. Even when WWE is amazing, it's hard to want to spend +$700 for a year of PPVs.
Besides, Cena has a pool the size of most houses. He doesn't need $60 more.
Finally, so what if this guy doesn't like Punk? Just his opinion. Debate it with him, or just ignore it. If you like CM Punk, then who cares what anyone else really says? Listen to all opinions, and pool those together to make your own judgement.
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Post by Hit Girl on Aug 13, 2013 3:19:11 GMT -5
Blame creative. If guys are given little or nothing to work with, then they won't draw. Give the audience a compelling storyline and characters they can relate to, and business will improve.
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Post by CM Parish on Aug 13, 2013 6:10:15 GMT -5
All this "Look at the ratings when he was champion!!!!" stuff makes no sense to me. People don't sit there going "who's the champ? Oh, that guy? He's gonna be on my tv for maybe 5 minutes more than if he wasn't?! I'm not watching that three hour show now!".
Whether Punk is champion or not he gets the same amount of time dedicated to him, the same with John Cena. It doesn't matter who the champion is.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2013 8:36:02 GMT -5
Meltzer. Doesn't know the difference between "Smackdown Announcer No.1" Funaki and "Gracie Killer" Funaki. But I'm sure Punk is crying himself to sleep on his mountain of money surrounded by beautiful women Not to be "that guy", but Kazushi Sakuraba is the Gracie Hunter. Not Masakatsu Funaki. Don't worry, you caught me in my own hubris of criticizing someone for getting people wrong and then getting people wrong. Fair shout. However, I still contend that if you cover MMA that much in a pro wrestling magazine, you should know the difference between a WWE jobber of 10 years and a MMA Legend (just not the "Gracie Hunter" MMA Legend type ). It would be like getting Dwayne Johnson and Big Dick Johnson mistaken for each other cause they have share a last name.
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Post by muzzle on Aug 13, 2013 8:41:21 GMT -5
Wait, Jericho vs Punk wasn't the main event. Shouldn't Meltzer be pointing out CENA doesn't draw because well he was in the main event. What is he smoking.
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Post by muzzle on Aug 13, 2013 8:43:00 GMT -5
I hate the fact that people say Punk isn't a draw. OK, then Bret and Shawn weren't draws either. I'm not sure many would argue that they were... "He smacked everyone under the blue moon with guitar...never drawed a dime."
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2013 9:37:28 GMT -5
What does he mean Punk doesn't draw?
The merchandise and the live reactions don't signify a draw to you? Why, because he's not as big as Cena? Nobody in WWE history has been as protected as Cena. Even Triple H tapped out to submission holds in main events and jobbed to hosses, and he's the heir to company!
Like Punk or not, he's worth his weight in gold. He's the hook that brings in deluded "hardcore" fans who think they're supporting a rebel even though he's on WWE's payroll. That's a very particular niche and he brings in their money, hook line and sinker. There's no one else on the roster who does that, not even Daniel Bryan, and I say this as someone who very much believes Bryan's an overall better fit for the company. Punk also appeals to a lot of more "mainstream" casual and internet fans and he's essentially a guarantee that you'll get a good match on the PPV.
He's a draw. Meltzer is just too old to understand what drawing power actually encompasses nowadays.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2013 10:00:47 GMT -5
Saying that Punk wasn't a draw is like assuming that when Bob Backlund won the belt in 1994, the WWF intended to have him be the face of the company.
You'd think that people who write about wrestling for a living would be able to tell that Punk was never, ever given the ball. He may have had the belt, but anyone who even bothered to watch any WWE programming during that time could tell that there was no doubt that it was the Rock & Cena show. Except for the time between the worked-schoot promo and MiTB 2011, when the company almost got completely behind Punk as a serious name, he wasn't anything close to the top guy.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2013 10:30:28 GMT -5
meh, you can manipulate numbers to mean whatever you want them to mean. When Raw's ratings drop in like a month when football comes back and Bryans on top people will go on about how hes not a draw, completely ignoring the fact that the ratings were down because literally the most popular thing in America was also on.
Lets also remember that the night of Payback was Game 5 of the NBA Finals, which is also a real sport more popular than wrestling, which was on basic cable, which nobody needed to pay money to watch. But no, SURELY that didnt alter the buyrate at all.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Aug 13, 2013 10:36:41 GMT -5
Lets also remember that the night of Payback was Game 5 of the NBA Finals, which is also a real sport more popular than wrestling, which was on basic cable, which nobody needed to pay money to watch. But no, SURELY that didnt alter the buyrate at all. All you need to say about the NBA Finals was that one team had the biggest athlete in America. Nobody in wrestling is even in the same stratosphere as LeBron James when it comes to being a draw. The Rock does it for his movies, but not wrestling.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Aug 13, 2013 10:38:32 GMT -5
NOBODY is a draw anymore. even the Rock saw diminishing returns. the name WWE is the only draw left, and it ain't half the draw it would be if they never had to change it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2013 10:43:23 GMT -5
Hmm... predictable outcome to Cena/Ryback, an absurd take on the CM Punk/Jericho match...
...yeah, it's all CM Punk's fault, not because the PPV featured a standard match where Cena would triumph and poor promoting overall.
Worse yet, we all forgot about the suffering Randy endured.
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Post by The Trashman on Aug 13, 2013 10:45:22 GMT -5
The problem isnt Punk or Bryan or Cena... WRESTLING isnt a draw anymore.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Aug 13, 2013 10:45:50 GMT -5
I also like to say, I don't understand this industry-wide obsession with blaming one guy for an entire poorly built show having a terrible buyrate. it's like a couple years back at Survivor Series where the main event was Cena/Rock vs. Miz/R-Truth (which had all of 2 weeks of build) and the buyrate slacked and for some reason everyone blamed Miz and Miz alone.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
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Post by chazraps on Aug 13, 2013 10:46:11 GMT -5
Another thing to consider is I remember many people didn't think Punk was actually going to wrestle on the show. It seemed odd that Punk was going to have a random match with Jericho for seemingly no reason as his return match. The pay-per-view as a whole was also built up pretty poorly with the mediocre Cena/Ryback feud being the big selling point. Yeah, Punk didn't even appear on television leading up to Payback. I don't think it's fair to put any of the responsibility for how the show did on him at all.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
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Post by chazraps on Aug 13, 2013 10:51:17 GMT -5
meh, you can manipulate numbers to mean whatever you want them to mean. When Raw's ratings drop in like a month when football comes back and Bryans on top people will go on about how hes not a draw, completely ignoring the fact that the ratings were down because literally the most popular thing in America was also on. Lets also remember that the night of Payback was Game 5 of the NBA Finals, which is also a real sport more popular than wrestling, which was on basic cable, which nobody needed to pay money to watch. But no, SURELY that didnt alter the buyrate at all. What's that?
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Post by Herman The Tosser on Aug 13, 2013 10:54:02 GMT -5
Threads like this remind me exactly why I stopped subscribing to F4W/Wrestling Observer.
Meltzer was OK, when Bryan Alvarez had him on every couple of weeks, but post-merger, it got old real fast. Especially when they would crank out BREAKING NEWS AUDIO whenever some MMA douche failed a piss-test, yet news that would actually be a bigger deal in wrestling... not so much.
A couple of years ago, I actually made a concsious decision to scale back on the amount of wrestling "journalism"/commentary I read and listened to online. It was becoming detrimental to my even being a fan, and therefore not worth the money, even for the occasional epic Bryan and Vinny rants.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Aug 13, 2013 11:00:27 GMT -5
Another thing to consider is I remember many people didn't think Punk was actually going to wrestle on the show. It seemed odd that Punk was going to have a random match with Jericho for seemingly no reason as his return match. The pay-per-view as a whole was also built up pretty poorly with the mediocre Cena/Ryback feud being the big selling point. Yeah, Punk didn't even appear on television leading up to Payback. I don't think it's fair to put any of the responsibility for how the show did on him at all. I guarantee you WWE themselves put little stock in a throwaway match between Punk and Jericho being "the big draw" for that show. I don't understand why Meltzer wants to crucify Punk for this when the company certainly didn't. if they were so gunshy about Punk why would they then put him in a feud with Brock Freaking Lesnar? clearly WWE sees money in that or else they would've picked someone else, given Brock's limited schedule.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Aug 13, 2013 11:05:30 GMT -5
I also like to say, I don't understand this industry-wide obsession with blaming one guy for an entire poorly built show having a terrible buyrate. it's like a couple years back at Survivor Series where the main event was Cena/Rock vs. Miz/R-Truth (which had all of 2 weeks of build) and the buyrate slacked and for some reason everyone blamed Miz and Miz alone. Wasn't it just the WWE that blamed Miz though? I remember damn near everyone was blaming the WWE for having Cena and Rock team up. People wanted a The People's Team vs The Cenation 5 on 5 match. The only way Cena and Rock teaming up would have worked is if the WWE would have kept Awesome Truth's momentum up as vicious thugs, and continued to build on the conspiracy angle. But they threw all that out, so we don't get Cena captaining a team vs a Rock captained team or even Cena and Rock having to work together to save the WWE from being destroyed from the inside.
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