Johnny
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Post by Johnny on Aug 15, 2013 8:00:46 GMT -5
Inspired by the thread about taking on Andre in a shoot, when we look back at Brock Lesnar, how will he compare to other "legit" tough guys of the business. Personally, i'd have him right near the top of the list due to his UFC run, and that being the closest thing I know to organised bar fights so FAN, Brock Lesnar? In your mind, where does he rank in toughness compared to the Hakus and Harley Races of the wrestling world?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2013 8:08:36 GMT -5
#1
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2013 9:40:34 GMT -5
Far, far behind the Hakus and Harley Races, for sure. Because like the OP mentioned, he's basically trained in organized bar fights, and those guys were brought up into the business in an era when you had to constantly be ready for actual bar fights.
As I've said before, being really good at amateur wrestling and MMA probably isn't going to do a lot of good against a shady, old carny-type with no qualms at all about pulling your eyeball out or biting off your nose to win a fight.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2013 9:46:16 GMT -5
Far, far behind the Hakus and Harley Races, for sure. As I've said before, being really good at amateur wrestling and MMA probably isn't going to do a lot of good against a shady, old carny-type with no qualms about pulling your eyeball out or biting off your nose to win a fight. Normally I would agree with you but Brock is one big, strong, quick mofo. I don't think that anyone is going to flat out handle him. I have no idea how he would fare in a brawl with someone like Haku but I'd bet that he'd hold his own and get some serious damage of his own in.
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tms
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Post by tms on Aug 15, 2013 15:11:49 GMT -5
In an industry where there's a lot of great athletes, I'd rate Brock as the best (by a CONSIDERABLE margin) when it comes to combining speed, agility, and freakish strength. I don't think people realize just HOW damn athletic the man is, especially in his prime. I've never seen anyone like him.
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NOwave
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Post by NOwave on Aug 15, 2013 16:24:18 GMT -5
If you mean in the current era, that may be true(although I'd still argue for Kurt Angle) but if you mean alltime, I'd have to disagree.
Best Athlete and toughest man? How about- Ernie Ladd 6'9", 330lbs, ran the 40 in 4.5 seconds, played NFL football and wrestled. Called "the greatest athlete I ever coached" by Eddie Robinson, longtime coach at Grambling.
Wahoo McDaniel 6'0", 250lbs, All American at Oklahoma in football for Bud Wilkinson's national champions, All Star AFL/NFL. Native American who dealt with intense prejudice growing up.
Ron Simmons -6'2", 275lbs, All American DE and #6 in Heisman trophy voting at Florida State. played in the NFL, USFL.
I'm sure there are more I'm not thinking of.
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Post by The Beast Disincarnate on Aug 15, 2013 22:04:48 GMT -5
Brock ain't that tough in reality. He's an impressive motherf***ing beast but what proved his MMA career is that he can't take a punch in the face. I don't say that average Joe could KO him easily because he's way above 99% of other human beings in terms of toughness and physical strengh but i'm pretty sure the Hakus and André could knock him out cold.
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Post by rybackrulez on Aug 15, 2013 22:33:04 GMT -5
Far, far behind the Hakus and Harley Races, for sure. Because like the OP mentioned, he's basically trained in organized bar fights, and those guys were brought up into the business in an era when you had to constantly be ready for actual bar fights. As I've said before, being really good at amateur wrestling and MMA probably isn't going to do a lot of good against a shady, old carny-type with no qualms at all about pulling your eyeball out or biting off your nose to win a fight. People who say this disregard that the trained fighter wouldn't prevent himself from fighting dirty. So they would fight dirty and be trained to keep your ass down. That is why the trained fighter>drunk methhead carny. Like brock wouldn't rip take your ass down and stab you with a hunting knife.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2013 22:38:51 GMT -5
It should be noted that Meng/Haku was a legitimate sumo wrestler and made it to about the third highest level you can be, almost becoming pro.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 15, 2013 22:41:21 GMT -5
Depends entirely on what you consider tough, I guess.
As for how Brock would fare against those others, I wonder if they'd go to try it, since if you don't kill Brock doing it, you might wish you hadn't tried it in the first place.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2013 22:45:14 GMT -5
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Post by Ganon83 on Aug 15, 2013 22:54:59 GMT -5
My money would always be on Haku in any kind of fight.
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Post by thegame415 on Aug 16, 2013 3:17:23 GMT -5
Right now, is there anyone on the WWE roster who could legit take Brock? I don't think so.
That's why I really hated his feud with Triple H. The feud with Punk has been a little better, but still, the money is in seeing Brock beat the piss (pun intended) out of these guys.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2013 3:32:23 GMT -5
Brock ain't that tough in reality. He's an impressive motherf***ing beast but what proved his MMA career is that he can't take a punch in the face. I don't say that average Joe could KO him easily because he's way above 99% of other human beings in terms of toughness and physical strengh but i'm pretty sure the Hakus and André could knock him out cold. Shane Carwin fight says hi.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2013 11:00:42 GMT -5
Brock ain't that tough in reality. He's an impressive motherf***ing beast but what proved his MMA career is that he can't take a punch in the face. I don't say that average Joe could KO him easily because he's way above 99% of other human beings in terms of toughness and physical strengh but i'm pretty sure the Hakus and André could knock him out cold. Shane Carwin fight says hi. While Brock won that fight, one can make the case that Carwin should've gotten a stoppage in the first Round. He hurt Brock badly; had Carwin not gassed, Brock's face would've been hamburger meat in the second Round.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2013 11:09:48 GMT -5
Shane Carwin fight says hi. While Brock won that fight, one can make the case that Carwin should've gotten a stoppage in the first Round. He hurt Brock badly; had Carwin not gassed, Brock's face would've been hamburger meat in the second Round. And the whole point is that even though Brock took a s*itload of punches he was never out and came back. That's not a definition of someone who can't take a punch.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2013 11:21:01 GMT -5
While Brock won that fight, one can make the case that Carwin should've gotten a stoppage in the first Round. He hurt Brock badly; had Carwin not gassed, Brock's face would've been hamburger meat in the second Round. And the whole point is that even though Brock took a s*itload of punches he was never out and came back. That's not a definition of someone who can't take a punch. He survived because the Round ended. In a real fight, Brock would've continued to turtle up until he lost consciousness (and I only say this in regards to someone like Carwin, who could conceivable knock him out) in that situation.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2013 11:22:24 GMT -5
And the whole point is that even though Brock took a s*itload of punches he was never out and came back. That's not a definition of someone who can't take a punch. He survived because the Round ended. In a real fight, Brock would've continued to turtle up until he lost consciousness (and I only say this in regards to someone like Carwin, who could conceivable knock him out) in that situation. Or Carwin would run out of gas even sooner because there's no stoppage between rounds and time to breathe in that imaginary scenario.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2013 11:32:04 GMT -5
He survived because the Round ended. In a real fight, Brock would've continued to turtle up until he lost consciousness (and I only say this in regards to someone like Carwin, who could conceivable knock him out) in that situation. Or Carwin would run out of gas even sooner because there's no stoppage between rounds and time to breathe in that imaginary scenario. Velasquez knocked him out quickly. Carwin was hurting him and Brock's only option was turtling up and waiting for the Round to end. Carwin would've run out of gas but he likely needed only 10 seconds more to get a stoppage and, had it not been a title fight with Lesnar, he probably would've gotten the stoppage. I like Brock and you can't dispute his accomplishments but he didn't show an extraordinary chin in his MMA career. It's a moot point because of the differences between an MMA fight and a street fight, however.
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Post by rybackrulez on Aug 16, 2013 11:41:03 GMT -5
Cain did not ko him, he stopped him with a barrage of punches and brock getting bloodied
Overeem ko'd him with a liver kick
Both of those men have multiple stoppages and respectable wins over great fighters. No shame at all in losing to them. Diverticulitis weakened brock so much, that and his insistance in standing with those two instead of grappling. But those losses are not something to be ashamed of.
I am sure harley race would have got wrecked by George Foreman in the seventies, and mike tyson would destroy haku in the eighties.
And you comparing "mma to a street fight situation" totally warped. You think a trained fighter wouldn't low blow or gouge an eye or fish hook and destroy a guy's leg.
Yes Falcao was ko with a 2x4, but that was a mugging with multiple people getting in on him.
I would assume in a fight with joe schmoe and a guy with training in fighting, joe schmoe wouldn't be able to do anything beyond windmill
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