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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Aug 18, 2013 9:54:37 GMT -5
Another example - Taz. Tiny orange midget. He was an Oompa-loompah. But book the guy right and he's the hottest talent in your promotion.
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ICBM
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Post by ICBM on Aug 18, 2013 13:01:03 GMT -5
I am genuinely surprised that this is not a 30+ page thread comprised of gripes about him losing the title so soon. There seems to be a bit of sense mixed with some wait and see with a sprinkle of at least he got it, all going along with the natural "we'll its Hogan's fault" posts. Nice to see a good mix. Bravo fan TNA posters
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Post by Talent Name on Aug 18, 2013 13:13:25 GMT -5
Another example - Taz. Tiny orange midget. He was an Oompa-loompah. But book the guy right and he's the hottest talent in your promotion. That is the thing with Tazz as well they didn't let him really speak and if they did it was short promos about Survive If I Let you, Sabin though tried to cut long promos and they came across as forced
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Post by cabbageboy on Aug 18, 2013 14:16:25 GMT -5
Thing is, there was no one really clamoring for some kind of mega Sabin push or anything. In fact when he was injured did anyone ever notice he was gone at all? Sabin is someone that has mostly been a tag wrestler and really the only good singles matches I've even seen from him were back in the early PPV only days of TNA against Juventud and some other X Division guys.
Honestly I wondered what TNA was going to do with the whole Destination X cash in concept back around the time Rob Van Dam jobbed the X belt to Kenny King and left TNA. Once that happened I assumed TNA wasn't going to bother with the cash in title shot since none of the guys involved in the X Division were really even midcard title worthy, much less main eventers. I'm surprised few people have made this particular connection, namely that Bruce Pritchard's bizarre inability to re-sign RVD essentially left TNA in the lurch and led to all of this weird title booking. Back in January if someone told you "Van Dam will hold the X Division title until July and cash in to win the title" one could reasonably reply "That makes sense." If you told someone "Chris Sabin will come back from injury, randomly win the X Division title, lose it to a masked Austin Aries, beat Aries the next week in a rematch, then beat Bully Ray for the world title, but lose it right back a month later due to TITO ORTIZ of all people turning heel on Rampage Jackson and joining the Aces and Eights" you'd probably suggest drug testing for the entire TNA booking committee.
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Post by ThereIsNoAbsurdistOnlyZuul on Aug 18, 2013 16:02:55 GMT -5
I am genuinely surprised that this is not a 30+ page thread comprised of gripes about him losing the title so soon. There seems to be a bit of sense mixed with some wait and see with a sprinkle of at least he got it, all going along with the natural "we'll its Hogan's fault" posts. Nice to see a good mix. Bravo fan TNA posters I think we all accepted it HAD to go back to Bully to be a part of the endgame for A's and 8's. I tend to dislike transitional champions myself, especially when they feel transitional or space filling. But it's a thing that happens in the business, and honestly I am not mad over it, I don't think a lot of people are, and blaming an old man who has the coloration of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers seems counter productive.
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Post by Vice honcho room temperature on Aug 18, 2013 16:43:44 GMT -5
I am genuinely surprised that this is not a 30+ page thread comprised of gripes about him losing the title so soon. There seems to be a bit of sense mixed with some wait and see with a sprinkle of at least he got it, all going along with the natural "we'll its Hogan's fault" posts. Nice to see a good mix. Bravo fan TNA posters I think we all accepted it HAD to go back to Bully to be a part of the endgame for A's and 8's. I tend to dislike transitional champions myself, especially when they feel transitional or space filling. But it's a thing that happens in the business, and honestly I am not mad over it, I don't think a lot of people are, and blaming an old man who has the coloration of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers seems counter productive. People are mad how he won (i.e. who ever booked that match should be slapped) but they knew what the deal was. I found it funny that Bully Ray was saying he had doubts that he could beat Sabin. You were dominating the match and he got like 3 moves in til you lost the hammer
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Post by ThereIsNoAbsurdistOnlyZuul on Aug 18, 2013 16:57:32 GMT -5
I think we all accepted it HAD to go back to Bully to be a part of the endgame for A's and 8's. I tend to dislike transitional champions myself, especially when they feel transitional or space filling. But it's a thing that happens in the business, and honestly I am not mad over it, I don't think a lot of people are, and blaming an old man who has the coloration of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers seems counter productive. People are mad how he won (i.e. who ever booked that match should be slapped) but they knew what the deal was. I found it funny that Bully Ray was saying he had doubts that he could be Sabin. You were dominating the match and he got like 3 moves in til you lost the hammer Annoyed? Perturbed? Displeased? Angered? Antagonized? Resentful? Outraged? It really didn't leave a lasting impression, other then: "Great, filler." Sure I am not happy, and really it was a throwaway reign, so it wouldn't have matter who they gave it to, except it would have had to be someone NOT in the BFG series.
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SOR
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Post by SOR on Aug 18, 2013 21:20:40 GMT -5
Bryan Danielson is in really good shape for a guy that is billed as 5 foot 8 (Meaning he's probably 5 foot 6 or 7) Eddie Guerrero for a short guy was in incredible shape and shouldn't even be classified as small. Rey Mysterio is 5'5-5'6 and is in phenomenal shape for such a short guy Rhino is 270 pounds, how is that small? My point isn't that small guys can't draw my point is small guys with no bodies like your Chris Daniels' Chris Sabin's etc etc can't draw. People want to see guys who are in shape. Mysterio is like 5'4" and has been bloated the entire time he's been in the main event scene, and Rhino is like 5'9", just built like a brick shithouse. You're confusing correlation and causality, Sabin's reign didn't fall flat because of his body type, it fell short because he was booked like shit and shoehorned into the main event picture. Lets use Rhino as an example since you brought him up: Would Rhino of been successful as he is today if he wasn't "built like a brick shithouse"? What if Rhino was just a 200 pound guy who was 5'9 and he wrestled. Would he of been ECW Champion? Probably not. Would he of got a WWE run? Probably not. Would TNA of picked him up? Again, probably not. Another example - Taz. Tiny orange midget. He was an Oompa-loompah. But book the guy right and he's the hottest talent in your promotion. Taz is the same as Rhino. I think he's only about 5'6-5'7 but during his ECW and WWE wrestling days he was built. Despite having that build his WWE run completely failed and he never even got past the Midcard. Taz had success in ECW as a small guy because everyone was small in ECW. It's the same reason Mike Awesome had amazing success in ECW as a big guy but he went to WCW and WWE and was an instant flop. A small guy really can't be used successfully in a National/International promotion unless they have something amazing about them. Even Rey who is known for being small has good size and even he gets squashed. Booking doesn't really come into it because it's not believable that the 200 pound Sabin is going to beat Bully unless it's a fluke or he cheats. Also with Sabin you have several babyfaces that the crowd likes more. Thing is, there was no one really clamoring for some kind of mega Sabin push or anything. In fact when he was injured did anyone ever notice he was gone at all? Sabin is someone that has mostly been a tag wrestler and really the only good singles matches I've even seen from him were back in the early PPV only days of TNA against Juventud and some other X Division guys. Yes there was, Everyone on this board (And other boards) was always for guys like Daniels and Sabin being pushed and TNA has done a good job with it. When it was rumoured Sabin was coming back people were all for the Sabin mega push. I remember having a debate with someone here when I was relatively new (Which is only back in March or April) and that person argued with me for days that guys like Shelley, Sabin and Daniels could be successful World Heavyweight Champions over guys like Bobby Lashley, Magnus etc I tried to make the argument that a guy like Lashley can walk into an Airport or be put on a Sign and people would go "Wow, Look at that guy I want to tune in and see what he's all about" the counter argument was "You can put photos of X wrestler doing cool moves on a sign also!" The way I see it, wrestling is a lot like the movies. Would Rocky 1 of been a good movie if Rocky was 5'6 200 pounds? No, the appeal of Sylvester Stallone in that film is that he went toe to toe with the World Champion but he was BELIEVABLE in doing so. He had the great story but it wouldn't of been successful if you had a skinny Actor playing the role. Ditto for movies like the Terminator, Rambo, James Bond etc. Of course you have an exception of a small guy who can do action (Tom Cruise, Mel Gibson etc) but it's quite rare, just like the wrestling business the actor needs to have something about them that makes them special. Most guys who are small have nothing about them except "I can wrestle good"
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Post by Loser troll. Please ban me on Aug 18, 2013 21:58:03 GMT -5
Sabin has 3/4ths of the the whole deal
Ability
Looks
Talking
It's just he has the charisma of a wet bag.
But I blame TNA's totally random booking on this.
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Post by El Cokehead del Knife Fight on Aug 18, 2013 21:58:49 GMT -5
Sure, Lashley looks impressive but the minute he opens his mouth he sounds like a parody of the big bruiser character and he is painfully mediocre in the ring. Daniels isn't that bad looking, he can cut promos and can back it up.
Would you rather a shitty wrestler with a good look be champion or a wrestler that doesn't have a great look but is the total package be champion?
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Post by SOR on Aug 18, 2013 22:05:01 GMT -5
Sure, Lashley looks impressive but the minute he opens his mouth he sounds like a parody of the big bruiser character and he is painfully mediocre in the ring. Daniels isn't that bad looking, he can cut promos and can back it up. Would you rather a shitty wrestler with a good look be champion or a wrestler that doesn't have a great look but is the total package be champion? Give Lashley a manager and the guy is money. A proper manager who can talk and get him over would of made Lashley TNA's Goldberg. Lashley also wasn't that bad in the ring he was decent, a little green but I enjoyed his work with Finlay in WWE. I want to see TNA have success so I want the shitty wrestler with a good look to be champion but why not both? Magnus is currently available I never see people saying HE should be champion. Same for Gunner both of these guys are good workers and have good looks but when they get pushed people complain.
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Post by Loser troll. Please ban me on Aug 18, 2013 22:15:12 GMT -5
I still say it's more about how they push guys, Sabin was booked as an afterthought for so long that to see him suddenly thrust into th title picture seemed unnatural.
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Post by El Cokehead del Knife Fight on Aug 18, 2013 22:16:55 GMT -5
Sure, Lashley looks impressive but the minute he opens his mouth he sounds like a parody of the big bruiser character and he is painfully mediocre in the ring. Daniels isn't that bad looking, he can cut promos and can back it up. Would you rather a shitty wrestler with a good look be champion or a wrestler that doesn't have a great look but is the total package be champion? Give Lashley a manager and the guy is money. A proper manager who can talk and get him over would of made Lashley TNA's Goldberg. Lashley also wasn't that bad in the ring he was decent, a little green but I enjoyed his work with Finlay in WWE. I want to see TNA have success so I want the shitty wrestler with a good look to be champion but why not both? Magnus is currently available I never see people saying HE should be champion. Same for Gunner both of these guys are good workers and have good looks but when they get pushed people complain. Because they don't have characters. Magnus doesn't have a character outside of being British and the v for victory crap while Gunner is just intense and bearded.
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Post by ZombieElvis on Aug 18, 2013 22:21:00 GMT -5
Sabin never should have been in a world title match let alone winning the damn belt. IMHO, he was the weak member of MCMG's and should have never gotten this push so soon after his return.
Don't get me wrong, I think Sabin is a good looking babyface with lots of energy, but he needs to connect better with fans in promos.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Aug 19, 2013 13:53:53 GMT -5
Thing is, there was no one really clamoring for some kind of mega Sabin push or anything. In fact when he was injured did anyone ever notice he was gone at all? Sabin is someone that has mostly been a tag wrestler and really the only good singles matches I've even seen from him were back in the early PPV only days of TNA against Juventud and some other X Division guys. Honestly I wondered what TNA was going to do with the whole Destination X cash in concept back around the time Rob Van Dam jobbed the X belt to Kenny King and left TNA. Once that happened I assumed TNA wasn't going to bother with the cash in title shot since none of the guys involved in the X Division were really even midcard title worthy, much less main eventers. I'm surprised few people have made this particular connection, namely that Bruce Pritchard's bizarre inability to re-sign RVD essentially left TNA in the lurch and led to all of this weird title booking. Back in January if someone told you "Van Dam will hold the X Division title until July and cash in to win the title" one could reasonably reply "That makes sense." If you told someone "Chris Sabin will come back from injury, randomly win the X Division title, lose it to a masked Austin Aries, beat Aries the next week in a rematch, then beat Bully Ray for the world title, but lose it right back a month later due to TITO ORTIZ of all people turning heel on Rampage Jackson and joining the Aces and Eights" you'd probably suggest drug testing for the entire TNA booking committee. I think we need that pic of Vince Russo grinning like an idiot with his sandals again.
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Post by Dave the Dave on Aug 19, 2013 15:42:58 GMT -5
I don't like the Plan C thing.
We already know that title is less important...can we not tell everyone?
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Post by Bram wants to 'urt you on Aug 20, 2013 8:37:50 GMT -5
After watching Summerslam, both Lesnar/Punk and Cena/Bryan were booked the way that Bully/Sabin should have been handled. Both matches featured smaller, tenacious guys going up against bigger, more muscular wrestlers (with somewhat limited movesets) - one had the smaller guy victorious, the other had him win, yet both had their respective "underdogs" come out looking strong. Whether Sabin has the in ring skills of Bryan or Punk is moot - it's how they utilised them in the ring.
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SOR
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Post by SOR on Aug 20, 2013 19:41:16 GMT -5
After watching Summerslam, both Lesnar/Punk and Cena/Bryan were booked the way that Bully/Sabin should have been handled. Both matches featured smaller, tenacious guys going up against bigger, more muscular wrestlers (with somewhat limited movesets) - one had the smaller guy victorious, the other had him win, yet both had their respective "underdogs" come out looking strong. Whether Sabin has the in ring skills of Bryan or Punk is moot - it's how they utilised them in the ring. Can you imagine the war that would break out on this board if Hulk Hogan screwed a popular pure wrestler out of a title? Another "TNA Death Watch" thread would begin.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2013 20:03:09 GMT -5
Lulz Gunner. That guy can draw like a knobless etch a sketch.
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Post by rybackrulez on Aug 21, 2013 2:11:42 GMT -5
After watching Summerslam, both Lesnar/Punk and Cena/Bryan were booked the way that Bully/Sabin should have been handled. Both matches featured smaller, tenacious guys going up against bigger, more muscular wrestlers (with somewhat limited movesets) - one had the smaller guy victorious, the other had him win, yet both had their respective "underdogs" come out looking strong. Whether Sabin has the in ring skills of Bryan or Punk is moot - it's how they utilised them in the ring. Can you imagine the war that would break out on this board if Hulk Hogan screwed a popular pure wrestler out of a title? Another "TNA Death Watch" thread would begin. Those death watch threads will never stop
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