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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Aug 19, 2013 9:27:55 GMT -5
I still consider Punks victory against him at MITB '11 clean. Cena was distracted, but it's not like anyone attacked him. His fault for keeping his eye off the ball. But it's not. Cena was distracted by an interfering Vince and Johnny Ace. Face being distracted by far away enemy always counts.
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Post by JTG Fan on Aug 19, 2013 9:29:08 GMT -5
I still consider Punks victory against him at MITB '11 clean. Cena was distracted, but it's not like anyone attacked him. His fault for keeping his eye off the ball. But it's not. Cena was distracted by an interfering Vince and Johnny Ace. Face being distracted by far away enemy always counts. It's clean in my book.
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Post by hossfan on Aug 19, 2013 9:29:18 GMT -5
I still consider Punks victory against him at MITB '11 clean. Cena was distracted, but it's not like anyone attacked him. His fault for keeping his eye off the ball. Didn't Cena have Punk in the STF but let him go when he saw Vince and Johnny Ace making their way to the ring? I thought he broke the hold to confront them out of fear that they would tell the timekeeper to ring the bell ala the Montreal Screwjob.
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Haulk
Samurai Cop
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Post by Haulk on Aug 19, 2013 9:30:11 GMT -5
I'm fully ok with this ending. D-Bry gets a clean win over the biggest name in WWE and looks like he has THE feud leading into Wrestlemania if they extend Orton/Bryan that long.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
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Post by The Ichi on Aug 19, 2013 10:07:12 GMT -5
I still consider Punks victory against him at MITB '11 clean. Cena was distracted, but it's not like anyone attacked him. His fault for keeping his eye off the ball. But it's not. Cena was distracted by an interfering Vince and Johnny Ace. Face being distracted by far away enemy always counts. Nobody physically attacked Cena. You could claim a wrestler was distracted by a fan in the crowd, doesn't mean they didn't lose fair and square.
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Post by simplydurhamcalling on Aug 19, 2013 10:19:20 GMT -5
But it's not. Cena was distracted by an interfering Vince and Johnny Ace. Face being distracted by far away enemy always counts. Nobody physically attacked Cena. You could claim a wrestler was distracted by a fan in the crowd, doesn't mean they didn't lose fair and square. But Cena had Punk in the STF and let go to stop Ace, it wasn't clean, last night was clean. Would you say Hurricane beat The Rock clean?
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Post by hossfan on Aug 19, 2013 10:26:01 GMT -5
But it's not. Cena was distracted by an interfering Vince and Johnny Ace. Face being distracted by far away enemy always counts. Nobody physically attacked Cena. You could claim a wrestler was distracted by a fan in the crowd, doesn't mean they didn't lose fair and square. If a wrestler has an opponent in a submission and breaks it himself to stop an outside influence from ending the match illegally in his favor, and then loses the match, I don't see how the loss is clean.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Aug 19, 2013 10:32:03 GMT -5
I'm an ordained minister in the Church of Cenaology and even I'd have to admit his MITB 11 loss was pretty much clean.
And when he does come back from surgery, he needs to at least do some fighting again the HHH/Orton regime, as it wouldn't make much sense for his character to stand idlely by while Bryan does all the heavy lifting. As long as he doesn't commandeer the story while Bryan fights unreleated people like in 2012 against Ace, it would work.
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Arrow
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Arrow on Aug 19, 2013 10:34:23 GMT -5
The major difference between Bryan and Punk's (or even Rock's, for that matter) win is that the latter was done in a way that still gives Cena an out. They were all clean in a traditional sense, but with Rock and Punk there was that "well, Cena might have won had he not gotten distracted here...". In this case, Cena wasn't distracted by Vince nor did he get too arrogant for his own good, Bryan simply beat him by being the better man.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
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Post by The Ichi on Aug 19, 2013 10:45:02 GMT -5
Nobody physically attacked Cena. You could claim a wrestler was distracted by a fan in the crowd, doesn't mean they didn't lose fair and square. If a wrestler has an opponent in a submission and breaks it himself to stop an outside influence from ending the match illegally in his favor, and then loses the match, I don't see how the loss is clean. I guess I just define a clean win as a win without any physical help.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2013 10:55:29 GMT -5
If WWE have any sense, this storyline will lead to:
A) Bryan regaining the title against Orton at Survivor Series or TLC B) CM Punk winning the Rumble C) Punk choosing to face Bryan at WM and those two tear the house down
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Post by Vice honcho room temperature on Aug 19, 2013 10:58:30 GMT -5
Punk's MITB win was cleanish. With distractions it depends how tied to the actual end it was. With MITB it was more Cena might have won with the STFU but Punk also had a chance to escape as well.
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Post by Red Impact on Aug 19, 2013 11:02:33 GMT -5
In my book, distracting a submission doesn't make it not clean unless the distraction is to the ref while the guy is tapping. Otherwise, the guy could always get out, crawl to the ropes, etc.
Distracting a wrestler during a pinfall attempt when the wrestler is on his back for several seconds definitely makes it not clean.
But it was involving shenanigans.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2013 11:11:13 GMT -5
My only concern after last night is that Orton isn't going to be the uber-heel that the WWE wants him to be. I have no doubts that he's actually turning heel, but I just have a feeling that some people in the crowd are still going to cheer the guy. I mean even as a babyface he's always been a pseudo heel, with his emotionless tone and portraying him as a lone-wolf. I'm just a little concerned because last night when he cashed in, the audience weren't really booing him. Maybe they were caught up in the moment, but people weren't as sympathetic to Bryan as I thought they would be.
They really have to hammer home tonight that Daniel Bryan was screwed over and that Orton has turned his back on the audience in favor of winning the championship, à la Austin in 2001 or Punk in 2009. Corporate Orton needs to be in full effect.
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HardKore
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Bork this company
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Post by HardKore on Aug 19, 2013 11:17:26 GMT -5
The main problem is not with what happened but how, Bryan should have kicked out and then got RKO'ed or punted for the win or HHH should have done a very fast count, having Daniel Bryan lose to the Pedigree and a long wait, even after a match was not good for business but more ego stroking for the GAME.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2013 11:29:08 GMT -5
I still consider Punks victory against him at MITB '11 clean. Cena was distracted, but it's not like anyone attacked him. His fault for keeping his eye off the ball. But it's not. Cena was distracted by an interfering Vince and Johnny Ace. Face being distracted by far away enemy always counts. But they weren't trying to distract him, that's the key I think. Vince wanted to save the title no matter what, Cena got involved (and made it an distraction) because HE wanted to beat Punk, and then Punk beat him because he took his eye off the ball. I consider that loss to the end of Rock/Cena II as one big storyarc for him: he got full of himself, he lost big matches (Punk, WM29) and over time needed to rebuild and refocus himself so that he was finally in a better place (winning Rock/Cena II).
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Post by crowwreak was WRONG on Aug 19, 2013 11:49:15 GMT -5
To anyone saying that the crowd was eating up the heel turn: There are videos of them chanting "BULLSHIT" after Bryan got up.
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Crimson
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Thank you DWade
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Post by Crimson on Aug 19, 2013 11:56:54 GMT -5
Forgive me if this has been answered but aside from Rock, who is the last person to beat Cena absolutely clean on a PPV? Randy Orton
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Post by Mesousa287793 on Aug 19, 2013 11:57:57 GMT -5
When Orton feuded with Kofi Kingston, it was pretty much the death knell to Kofi's push: the crowd for some darn reason still liked Orton more.
I'm worried that he's practically unbooable except with a smarky crowd, and if people can actually dislike Cena, why not Orton?
It's a mystery.
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Bub (BLM)
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Fed. Up.
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Aug 19, 2013 11:59:25 GMT -5
I think - aside from the skullduggery of the entire ending - that they're setting up the long game to push Bryan even further into the stratosphere of superstardom. He's beaten Cena clean. Now he's going to be Orton/HHH/&WWE management. But if this is one of those things where Bryan is a placeholder until Cena gets back to right the wrongs of the McMahon family.... le sigh, I don't know. I may just watch NXT only. hahah You mean like the time Cena completely stole Punk's spot in the Laurinaitis feud?
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