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Post by Andrew is Good on Aug 22, 2013 20:23:06 GMT -5
You're also forgetting about TNA doing this before and this not being the first time they've done this, and have been sued for this and settled. Trying to tell a different story, while he was employed, to make the company look compassionate, despite their shady past? Again, if TNA didn't have a history of doing this, I'd probably believe TNA over Jesse. But like believing a kleptomaniac won't steal again. And yet there's also a history of them doing it straight out (Sabin and his recent injury) or with that weird loan they tried before(Hernandez's injury during his Supermex push), so you're just cherry picking from the 3 (though, honestly it's 2, cause konan was full of S***) situations that everyone brings up, and ignores the rest. To be honest, I'm skeptical with the Sabin deal now.
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Post by CrazySting on Aug 22, 2013 20:24:07 GMT -5
As noted, the problem with the "Sorensen is lying/exaggerating" claim is that TNA have a long history of this stuff. It's totally consistent that they would duck out of paying.
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Post by Michael Coello on Aug 22, 2013 20:24:19 GMT -5
Seeing things from the side of the worker instead of the company isn't biased, it's forming an opinion based on previous experience. TNA has a track record of shitting on workers, why is it so hard to believe that they'd do it again? Cause when your history is based on 3 events in a 10 year history of a company, it's not exactly a smoking gun. And to be honest, I doubt the validity of at least 1 of them. Konnan had a ton of issues even before TNA formed, let alone when he was wrestling in LAX. And the whole racial angle over TNA making him a horrible stereotype would be laughed out of court if the judge saw a music video from 1999 era WCW or his run in Mexico and DVD release. Neal I can get, and Daffney felt more like s***ty actions by Terry Taylor than TNA as a whole. That's it. That's all you and everyone else have, and most of those are from before the big shake up with management from a few years ago. Plus, this forum, and certain posters especially, have cultivated conspiracy theories about certain angles, wrestlers, and "injustices" that the JFK Conspiracy people would tell them they were bats*** crazy, and those are far more numerable than your own "history", I'll tell you that much.
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Post by evilone on Aug 22, 2013 20:31:46 GMT -5
If you don't like the deal TNA is giving you, you can leave. World would be quite an interesting place without wrestling wouldn't it? Be careful what you wish for. I never understood people who justify and acknowledge unfair deals and situations when big guy is taking advantage of smaller guy, I guess they have some issues to be one of those ruthless bosses that feed their egos. Nobody goes to become a wrestler with idea "I want to be rich!" nor its a "money grows on threes" kind of industry. As a matter of fact it's a market in steady decline. Another thing I don't understand is if wrestlers are independent contractors and not employees why they don't make some organization of their own with their own conditions that future service beneficiary have to comply with? I remember how WWE defended their practice of independent contractor by comparing it to TV series and actors that are starrers. Well that's all fine and dandy but those actors all have support from SAG or AEA or other similar organization who claim standardized pay and work conditions. And guess what else? Health Plan and Pension as well.
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Post by Red Impact on Aug 22, 2013 20:54:33 GMT -5
Another thing I don't understand is if wrestlers are independent contractors and not employees why they don't make some organization of their own with their own conditions that future service beneficiary have to comply with? I remember how WWE defended their practice of independent contractor by comparing it to TV series and actors that are starrers. Well that's all fine and dandy but those actors all have support from SAG or AEA or other similar organization who claim standardized pay and work conditions. And guess what else? Health Plan and Pension as well. Standardized pay is pretty much impossible business wide. Costs are so heavily seeped in actually working as well as merch royalties that it'd be a nightmare even if you never thought to try to compare pay between an indy fed (or ROH or TNA) and WWE. Adding the other costs would probably sink most small feds, meaning the indies got a whole lot smaller and those guys are out of work. If you wanted to do it just for the big companies, you'd have to get all of the big stars on board, and most of them probably wouldn't do it because they're making enough already. The undercard is pretty much replaceable top to bottom in every company, and you can bet a lot of guys would jump at the chance to wrestler there if they had to replace them.
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Post by CrazySting on Aug 22, 2013 21:53:54 GMT -5
I do question why Sorensen is still wrestling though.
By his own admission his mom was financially ruined due to his wrestling career. And he's still insisting on wrestling, even with the screwed up neck, because....? TNA won't have him back and WWE won't be interested due to his size as well as the neck deal. He's never going to be able to make any real money.
At some point you think you'd just decide to try something else.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2013 22:37:03 GMT -5
On the one hand if Jesse is making it up it would be easy enough for TNA to prove him wrong and they should want to get it out there that he's a liar. On the other hand if he's telling the truth it makes them look REALLY bad. So it's probably somewhere in the middle. If I had to guess I'd say that TNA paid for his treatments until he was up and about and then stopped paying for his continuing treatments and that's where his mother tried to use her insurance for him. No idea if I'm right but it makes sense to me.
I will say that if TNA flat out didn't pay for his treatment and put it all on his mom's insurance then every wrestler in the locker room is a straight up bitch for not walking out on them.
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Post by CrazySting on Aug 22, 2013 22:44:41 GMT -5
On the one hand if Jesse is making it up it would be easy enough for TNA to prove him wrong and they should want to get it out there that he's a liar. On the other hand if he's telling the truth it makes them look REALLY bad. So it's probably somewhere in the middle. If I had to guess I'd say that TNA paid for his treatments until he was up and about and then stopped paying for his continuing treatments and that's where his mother tried to use her insurance for him. No idea if I'm right but it makes sense to me. I will say that if TNA flat out didn't pay for his treatment and put it all on his mom's insurance then every wrestler in the locker room is a straight up bitch for not walking out on them. Why would we he lie? Especially when, like you say, it could easily be disproved. TNA's murky history in this area indicates it's the truth. No one at TNA has come out to deny his story. Yet, at least.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2013 22:52:37 GMT -5
On the one hand if Jesse is making it up it would be easy enough for TNA to prove him wrong and they should want to get it out there that he's a liar. On the other hand if he's telling the truth it makes them look REALLY bad. So it's probably somewhere in the middle. If I had to guess I'd say that TNA paid for his treatments until he was up and about and then stopped paying for his continuing treatments and that's where his mother tried to use her insurance for him. No idea if I'm right but it makes sense to me. I will say that if TNA flat out didn't pay for his treatment and put it all on his mom's insurance then every wrestler in the locker room is a straight up bitch for not walking out on them. Why would we he lie? Especially when, like you say, it could easily be disproved. TNA's murky history in this area indicates it's the truth. No one at TNA has come out to deny his story. Yet, at least. I doubt that he's straight up lying I just think that there's some truth to both sides of the story. Whenever it's a he said/she said situation the truth is usually somewhere in the middle.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,275
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Post by chazraps on Aug 22, 2013 23:12:09 GMT -5
Poor guy? I work in construction. If I get hit by a car, they don't pay my medical bills. Its life, you got fired. Get over it. What kind of construction do you work in where you run the risk of getting hit by cars on the job? Dude, get a new job.
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Post by grunt on Aug 22, 2013 23:26:59 GMT -5
On the one hand if Jesse is making it up it would be easy enough for TNA to prove him wrong and they should want to get it out there that he's a liar. On the other hand if he's telling the truth it makes them look REALLY bad. So it's probably somewhere in the middle. If I had to guess I'd say that TNA paid for his treatments until he was up and about and then stopped paying for his continuing treatments and that's where his mother tried to use her insurance for him. No idea if I'm right but it makes sense to me. I will say that if TNA flat out didn't pay for his treatment and put it all on his mom's insurance then every wrestler in the locker room is a straight up bitch for not walking out on them. Why would we he lie? Especially when, like you say, it could easily be disproved. TNA's murky history in this area indicates it's the truth. No one at TNA has come out to deny his story. Yet, at least. Why would they bother denying anything at all ? Your mind is already made up. Half the IWC's mind is already made up. If TNA decided to deny Sorensen's allegations, it would still end up being a game of he said/they said, and those who already side with Jesse today, based on his sole testimony, would still end up siding with him. So why bother at all ? (as far as i'm concerned, the truth is probably somewhere in between "they paid nothing" & "they paid everything", but since the "I didn't set up that crowdfunding stuff, it was a friend" stuff, I kind of have a hard time taking Jesse's word as gospel)
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Aug 22, 2013 23:42:16 GMT -5
Neither side is credible in this case.
TNA has a history of being very sh***y to their talent when it involves the idea of paying people and Jesse at this point is having an issue with knowing which story of his is true. I think both sides are being somewhat bogus on this. I don't think TNA paid enough for his treatment and I don't think Jesse's mother went completely bankrupt.
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Post by fuzzywarble, squat cobbler on Aug 23, 2013 8:59:08 GMT -5
I don't know why anyone in their right mind would want to work for TNA
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SOR
Unicron
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Post by SOR on Aug 23, 2013 9:03:15 GMT -5
I don't know why anyone in their right mind would want to work for TNA Number 2 company in the world that receives air time in 60+ countries and gives you the ability to get exposure therefore making you money when/if you ever return to the indies. Not to mention what the guidance of guys like Hogan and Sting can do for your career. You're right, working for TNA is silly.
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Post by fuzzywarble, squat cobbler on Aug 23, 2013 9:18:11 GMT -5
I don't know why anyone in their right mind would want to work for TNA Number 2 company in the world that receives air time in 60+ countries and gives you the ability to get exposure therefore making you money when/if you ever return to the indies. Not to mention what the guidance of guys like Hogan and Sting can do for your career. You're right, working for TNA is silly. It is, especially when you realize that they don't do jack shit for their injured wrestlers, unless you happen to be Hogan, Angle, Hardy, etc. I'm sorry, but if my options after failing to reach WWE are 1). work for TNA, or 2). retire and find something else, I'm retiring.
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Post by SeVeN: #TheBadGuy. on Aug 23, 2013 9:28:28 GMT -5
Poor guy? I work in construction. If I get hit by a car, they don't pay my medical bills. Its life, you got fired. Get over it. What kind of construction do you work in where you run the risk of getting hit by cars on the job? Dude, get a new job. I do road construction, asphalt paving to be exact. I have worked with several people who have been run over, bumped and a few have been killed. What our insurance doesn't cover, which isn't much. We pay out of pocket. I have injured my back, foot and knee, working for my company. I had to pay the medical expenses. I'm not trying to start an argument but the guy was let go. It happens in the real world. Wrestling is no different.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Aug 23, 2013 9:40:06 GMT -5
Neither side is credible in this case. TNA has a history of being very sh***y to their talent when it involves the idea of paying people and Jesse at this point is having an issue with knowing which story of his is true. I think both sides are being somewhat bogus on this. I don't think TNA paid enough for his treatment and I don't think Jesse's mother went completely bankrupt. I have to agree that neither side looks good, but due to Jesse's injury TNA is not going to get much support if any from people. I personally think something shady is going on with Jesse with how he went from "No issues with TNA" to pretty openly bashing them. Not saying I think TNA is in the right totally, but things with Jesse's story doesn't add up. Oh and for whoever mentioned Konnan, the issue he had with TNA is when he had his bad leg/back/whatever where he needed surgery TNA tried to get out of paying for the surgery by saying he had a limp when he got there which he did but it went from a limp to being barely able to walk. Since he had the limp previously TNA technically wasn't liable. Still a shitty situation.
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Post by Kash Flagg on Aug 23, 2013 9:59:15 GMT -5
Although I think like Akeem there's a more in the middle truth to the story, the real problem is wrestling exploiting the independent contractor status for their own benefit. The WWE is really guilty of this as well, but this is the TNA section so we'll talk about them (even though it applies to both companies). Even though wrestlers are listed as independent contractors, they can't just decide to go work an indy show. In TNA the wrestlers can't do indy shows that tape for dvd/on demand/ippv. Why? If they are truly independent (and have to pay their own insurance) then they should be able to do what they want when not contracted on that date for TNA. But it doesn't work like that.
Issues like this wouldn't be such an issue if this whole bullshit idea of wrestlers being independent contractors wasn't around. They'd be like any other business and be force to pay benefits and offer insurance. Daphney had a chance to start the ball rolling, but like everyone else she took the payoff and ran. If wrestlers don't give a shit about themselves to want better working conditions, why should we?
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Post by TK The Friendly Robot on Aug 23, 2013 10:38:53 GMT -5
Although I think like Akeem there's a more in the middle truth to the story, the real problem is wrestling exploiting the independent contractor status for their own benefit. The WWE is really guilty of this as well, but this is the TNA section so we'll talk about them (even though it applies to both companies). Even though wrestlers are listed as independent contractors, they can't just decide to go work an indy show. In TNA the wrestlers can't do indy shows that tape for dvd/on demand/ippv. Why? If they are truly independent (and have to pay their own insurance) then they should be able to do what they want when not contracted on that date for TNA. But it doesn't work like that. Issues like this wouldn't be such an issue if this whole bullshit idea of wrestlers being independent contractors wasn't around. They'd be like any other business and be force to pay benefits and offer insurance. Daphney had a chance to start the ball rolling, but like everyone else she took the payoff and ran. If wrestlers don't give a shit about themselves to want better working conditions, why should we? I'm with you on this one, there is probably some truth from both sides here however what you've hit on is the real meat of this story. Every opportunity there has been for the workers in the business to stand up and make a change for the benefit of the health and well being of wrestlers everywhere has been passed on for cold hard cash time and again and that's the precedent that has been set, that's the bed that time and again they've decided to lie in and to be honest I'm not going to get myself all worked up and act outraged if no one who is close to this supposed very raw situation is acting the same way.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,275
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Post by chazraps on Aug 23, 2013 10:47:21 GMT -5
What kind of construction do you work in where you run the risk of getting hit by cars on the job? Dude, get a new job. I do road construction, asphalt paving to be exact. I have worked with several people who have been run over, bumped and a few have been killed. What our insurance doesn't cover, which isn't much. We pay out of pocket. I have injured my back, foot and knee, working for my company. I had to pay the medical expenses. I'm not trying to start an argument but the guy was let go. It happens in the real world. Wrestling is no different. Just because you have a job where your employer doesn't value your well-being, doesn't mean that's how the world works.
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