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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Aug 25, 2013 21:36:07 GMT -5
Guys only seem to say things like that up against John Cena. They do that to feed the divide between the fans because they know Cena's gonna get booed against certain people. Like people who have a pulse? Wait, you're saying that only unenlightened people have pulses? Anyway, they really shouldn't have played up that divide at all. Bryan was going to get cheered by at least half the crowd regardless, having another face cut Cena, their top face, down (for something that isn't even really a bad thing, no less) was pretty unnecessary.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Aug 25, 2013 21:45:32 GMT -5
Cena encourages the "wrestler vs sports entertainer" thing too, because he's the walking talking embodiment of WWE. He uses all the buzzwords and has a religious devotion to WWE itself. He's made it very clear that he regards WWE as the be all and end all to the business, so he sets himself up for criticism from a guy with DB's character, who acknowledges that a world of wrestling exists beyond the WWE bubble, even though it might not be as glamourous. The problem there is that's an extremely minor thing to try and vilivy someone for. Ok, so he loves his company and doesn't wanna work anywhere else after he's done- yeah, let's burn him at the stake for that. It's a little vain of him at worst, but that doesn't exactly indicate he's any less a wrestler than Bryan is (in kayfabe or real life).
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Post by Hit Girl on Aug 25, 2013 21:50:59 GMT -5
Cena encourages the "wrestler vs sports entertainer" thing too, because he's the walking talking embodiment of WWE. He uses all the buzzwords and has a religious devotion to WWE itself. He's made it very clear that he regards WWE as the be all and end all to the business, so he sets himself up for criticism from a guy with DB's character, who acknowledges that a world of wrestling exists beyond the WWE bubble, even though it might not be as glamourous. The problem there is that's an extremely minor thing to try and vilivy someone for. Ok, so he loves his company and doesn't wanna work anywhere else after he's done- yeah, let's burn him at the stake for that. It's a little vain of him at worst, but that doesn't exactly indicate he's any less a wrestler than Bryan is (in kayfabe or real life). In part it does, since he dismisses anything that's not WWE. It's not only vain, but narrow minded. Thus, he's fairly criticised by a guy who not only recognises that other companies exist, but that those companies also have an important value, and they more than WWE emphasise their status as wrestling companies, not entertainment companies.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2013 22:04:40 GMT -5
Like people who have a pulse? Wait, you're saying that only unenlightened people have pulses? Anyway, they really shouldn't have played up that divide at all. Bryan was going to get cheered by at least half the crowd regardless, having another face cut Cena, their top face, down (for something that isn't even really a bad thing, no less) was pretty unnecessary. I think he was saying that any wrestler will get cheered against Cena, not that any fan with a pulse will boo Cena.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Aug 25, 2013 22:06:13 GMT -5
The problem there is that's an extremely minor thing to try and vilivy someone for. Ok, so he loves his company and doesn't wanna work anywhere else after he's done- yeah, let's burn him at the stake for that. It's a little vain of him at worst, but that doesn't exactly indicate he's any less a wrestler than Bryan is (in kayfabe or real life). In part it does, since he dismisses anything that's not WWE. It's not only vain, but narrow minded. Thus, he's fairly criticised by a guy who not only recognises that other companies exist, but that those companies also have an important value, and they more than WWE emphasise their status as wrestling companies, not entertainment companies. As if there's anything wrong with that. It's pretty obvious Vince deeply loves wrestling and focuses mostly on his company's wrestling aspects despite him wanting WWE to be seen as more than just that, so I don't see the point in attacking WWE for their business tactics there, unless one wants WWE to just be nothing more than a totally bland simulated sport. And I could understand it if Bryan's primary goal was to defend the honor of other promotions, but it wasn't. His main objective was to make Cena seem as if he was undeserving of his achievments and had things handed to him- which is not only untrue in regard to both Cena the character and the person, but also makes Bryan seem a lot less sympathetic, and actually kinda dickish. And to be fair, there are sadly a good number of indy feds whose integrity could be put up for debate. Cena's ability and effort aren't up for debate, hence why Bryan comes off so much worse with his I AM RASSLER GRR spiel.
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Post by Starshine on Aug 25, 2013 22:06:15 GMT -5
Cena encourages the "wrestler vs sports entertainer" thing too, because he's the walking talking embodiment of WWE. He uses all the buzzwords and has a religious devotion to WWE itself. He's made it very clear that he regards WWE as the be all and end all to the business, so he sets himself up for criticism from a guy with DB's character, who acknowledges that a world of wrestling exists beyond the WWE bubble, even though it might not be as glamourous. The problem there is that's an extremely minor thing to try and vilivy someone for. Ok, so he loves his company and doesn't wanna work anywhere else after he's done- yeah, let's burn him at the stake for that. It's a little vain of him at worst, but that doesn't exactly indicate he's any less a wrestler than Bryan is (in kayfabe or real life). Problem was that it was something that almost completely contradicted his entire character up to that point. He's always been for the fans first, everything else second, to the point where he'll risk injury to keep wrestling for them. So for him to come out and say if he left WWE, he'd be done, goes against that entire trait, along with the never give up against adversity trope he literally wears on his shirt. Sure, we all know realistically he'll probably never wrestle anywhere else once he's done. But still, in the story perspective, he should never be saying that.
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Post by Red Impact on Aug 25, 2013 22:07:32 GMT -5
Wait, you're saying that only unenlightened people have pulses? Anyway, they really shouldn't have played up that divide at all. Bryan was going to get cheered by at least half the crowd regardless, having another face cut Cena, their top face, down (for something that isn't even really a bad thing, no less) was pretty unnecessary. I think he was saying that any wrestler will get cheered against Cena, not that any fan with a pulse will boo Cena. Yeah, that's what I was trying to say. Cena will always get a split reaction.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Aug 25, 2013 22:09:04 GMT -5
Wait, you're saying that only unenlightened people have pulses? Anyway, they really shouldn't have played up that divide at all. Bryan was going to get cheered by at least half the crowd regardless, having another face cut Cena, their top face, down (for something that isn't even really a bad thing, no less) was pretty unnecessary. I think he was saying that any wrestler will get cheered against Cena, not that any fan with a pulse will boo Cena. Well, since WWE insists on pigeonholing Cena as a divisive figure, yeah, of course they will. It's not as if Cena's inferior to them.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Aug 25, 2013 22:13:39 GMT -5
In all seriousness, I'm trying to think. What don't I like about Daniel Bryan? Cause, even if I'm a huge fan of someone, there's always a flaw that I'm willing acknowledge, no matter how nitpicky it may seem. Hmm...
I don't like how he devolved from a submission specialist to a guy that kicks a lot.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2013 22:15:32 GMT -5
I think he was saying that any wrestler will get cheered against Cena, not that any fan with a pulse will boo Cena. Well, since WWE insists on pigeonholing Cena as a divisive figure, yeah, of course they will. It's not as if Cena's inferior to them. No one is saying that he's inferior to anyone. I was just trying to point out that you misinterpreted his statement. Cena gets booed a lot. Not just by unenlightended people, either. And that was happening before WWE insisted on pidgeonholing him as a divisive figure.
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SEAN CARLESS
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Aug 25, 2013 22:52:38 GMT -5
Kinda crazy how much people question Buzzkill's opinions. Like it somehow hurts anyone. It hurts base common sense and batters it into unrecognizable submission. It's one thing to have criticisms based on a preferential scale of what you think is better. But saying that nothing on earth can change your mind --even if something adapted to your scale-- no matter what is the definition of absurd and renders an opinion worthless. It means you're beyond rationale. This is what people don't understand. No one is just entitled to think things void of reason. You have to able to explain and quantify your opinion or it means nothing. Its just blind hatred otherwise and should absolutely be disregarded.
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Essential1
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Post by Essential1 on Aug 25, 2013 23:36:17 GMT -5
I feel there has been many guys similar heights and build to him that were very good workers but never got the kind of hype he has. I was told by a smark about 4 years ago in real life that Brian Danielson "Is the best wrestler in the world" and that nobody who worked for the WWE to lace up his boots. So before I even saw him I heard a lot about him and what do I think when I see him now? He's alright but he's just looks odd in the main event picture. He works his butt off and is passionate but it's so difficult for me to look at him and take him as this asskicker.
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Post by Jimichiro Likes Erick Rowan on Aug 25, 2013 23:37:09 GMT -5
I don't like Bryan using the Diving Headbutt. His neck is gonna be all kinds of jacked up when he retires.
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Post by bigalbass86 AKA Smokin Vokoun on Aug 25, 2013 23:41:24 GMT -5
Kinda crazy how much people question Buzzkill's opinions. Like it somehow hurts anyone. It hurts base common sense and batters it into unrecognizable submission. It's one thing to have criticisms based on a preferential scale of what you think is better. But saying that nothing on earth can change your mind --even if something adapted to your scale-- no matter what is the definition of absurd and renders an opinion worthless. It means you're beyond rationale. This is what people don't understand. No one is just entitled to think things void of reason. You have to able to explain and quantify your opinion or it means nothing. Its just blind hatred otherwise and should absolutely be disregarded. Yeah, I've heard his "agruements" on why he hates Bryan. And honestly, he doesn't bring up any real constructive points at all. Other than "He's boring" or "He looks bland". So I don't blame people for being frustrated with him because that kind of thinking doesn't lend itself to a real good debate.
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Post by Red Impact on Aug 25, 2013 23:46:57 GMT -5
It hurts base common sense and batters it into unrecognizable submission. It's one thing to have criticisms based on a preferential scale of what you think is better. But saying that nothing on earth can change your mind --even if something adapted to your scale-- no matter what is the definition of absurd and renders an opinion worthless. It means you're beyond rationale. This is what people don't understand. No one is just entitled to think things void of reason. You have to able to explain and quantify your opinion or it means nothing. Its just blind hatred otherwise and should absolutely be disregarded. Yeah, I've heard his "agruements" on why he hates Bryan. And honestly, he doesn't bring up any real constructive points at all. Other than "He's boring" or "He looks bland". So I don't blame people for being frustrated with him because that kind of thinking doesn't lend itself to a real good debate. There's not a whole lot to debate when it's purely a matter of opinion and personal taste, and it is pure opinion even if it's someone the majority of online commenters like him. It'd be like trying to convince someone who hates pepperoni how pepperoni pizza is the best pizza, you can try to quantify it all you want, but you're just coming up with reasons after the fact as to why you like something that, truth be told, you never really decided that you liked in the first place. If someone doesn't like pepperoni, no thesis from you will change that, it's just a matter of taste, and liking or disliking wrestlers is no different. None of the counter points to what he brings up have any more meat than what he says, people are just angry because it's Daniel Bryan and their cries of "He's a superb mat technician!" and "He's incredibly over" aren't nearly as convincing as they think.
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Post by bigalbass86 AKA Smokin Vokoun on Aug 25, 2013 23:50:24 GMT -5
Yeah, I've heard his "agruements" on why he hates Bryan. And honestly, he doesn't bring up any real constructive points at all. Other than "He's boring" or "He looks bland". So I don't blame people for being frustrated with him because that kind of thinking doesn't lend itself to a real good debate. There's not a whole lot to debate when it's purely a matter of opinion, and it is pure opinion even if it's someone the majority of online commenters like. It'd be like trying to convince someone who hates pepperoni how pepperoni pizza is the best pizza, you can try to quantify it all you want, but if someone doesn't like it, they don't like it. None of the counter points to what he brings up are any more constructive, they just rely on "Well, he's good in the ring!" or "He's over!" That's true. I guess really what's the point of trying to change someone's mind. It is all of matter of opinion. He hate's Bryan. The vast majority, including me, love the guy. He's not gonna change our minds, and most likely we won't change his. I guess the real fun is just arguing about it.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Aug 25, 2013 23:50:49 GMT -5
It hurts base common sense and batters it into unrecognizable submission. It's one thing to have criticisms based on a preferential scale of what you think is better. But saying that nothing on earth can change your mind --even if something adapted to your scale-- no matter what is the definition of absurd and renders an opinion worthless. It means you're beyond rationale. This is what people don't understand. No one is just entitled to think things void of reason. You have to able to explain and quantify your opinion or it means nothing. Its just blind hatred otherwise and should absolutely be disregarded. Yeah, I've heard his "agruements" on why he hates Bryan. And honestly, he doesn't bring up any real constructive points at all. Other than "He's boring" or "He looks bland". So I don't blame people for being frustrated with him because that kind of thinking doesn't lend itself to a real good debate. My main issue with it is the fact that he said earlier in the thread that no matter what Bryan did to try and change or improve on the things he mentioned he didn't like about him that he'd still hate him regardless. That makes no sense. That's not an opinion. that's just blind hate and it deserves no respect or consideration.
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Post by Ryback on a Pole! on Aug 25, 2013 23:51:03 GMT -5
I don't like the fact WWE have toned down his offence so that for many matches, he essentially just uses kick varieties. I want him to start busting out suplexes
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Post by Hit Girl on Aug 25, 2013 23:52:46 GMT -5
In part it does, since he dismisses anything that's not WWE. It's not only vain, but narrow minded. Thus, he's fairly criticised by a guy who not only recognises that other companies exist, but that those companies also have an important value, and they more than WWE emphasise their status as wrestling companies, not entertainment companies. As if there's anything wrong with that. It's pretty obvious Vince deeply loves wrestling and focuses mostly on his company's wrestling aspects despite him wanting WWE to be seen as more than just that, so I don't see the point in attacking WWE for their business tactics there, unless one wants WWE to just be nothing more than a totally bland simulated sport. And I could understand it if Bryan's primary goal was to defend the honor of other promotions, but it wasn't. His main objective was to make Cena seem as if he was undeserving of his achievments and had things handed to him- which is not only untrue in regard to both Cena the character and the person, but also makes Bryan seem a lot less sympathetic, and actually kinda dickish. And to be fair, there are sadly a good number of indy feds whose integrity could be put up for debate. Cena's ability and effort aren't up for debate, hence why Bryan comes off so much worse with his I AM RASSLER GRR spiel. There's a lot wrong with it. Vince may love wrestling, but he's gone to great lengths to downplay what business he's in. Along with "superstars" they've been trying to shove "sports-entertainment" down people's throats as a buzzword for decades, and it's never caught on and never will. Now they've moved to just "entertainment". For someone who apparently loves wrestling, Vince is deeply reluctant to use the term to describe his business and the people in it. Calling WWE what it is doesn't turn it into nothing but a bland simulated sport. It's true that WWE does other things, like video games, merchandise, etc....but all of it derives from wrestling. If it's bland, then blame creative. Their job is to make it interesting. If Bryan was claiming that Cena was undeserving of his success, then yes that's unfair. But by nailing his colours to the mast of "sports-entertainment" so ardantly, Cena opens the door to criticism, that he represents the WWE corporate creation of "sports-entertainment", with no appreciation for the grassroots of the business. It's also ironic that the same WWE that Cena professes such love for, has proven itself time and time again to be kayfabe corrupt. They are right now, with their abuse of power towards DB. Cena has some interesting moral standards.
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Post by bigalbass86 AKA Smokin Vokoun on Aug 25, 2013 23:57:00 GMT -5
Yeah, I've heard his "agruements" on why he hates Bryan. And honestly, he doesn't bring up any real constructive points at all. Other than "He's boring" or "He looks bland". So I don't blame people for being frustrated with him because that kind of thinking doesn't lend itself to a real good debate. My main issue with it is the fact that he said earlier in the thread that no matter what Bryan did to try and change or improve on the things he mentioned he didn't like about him that he'd still hate him regardless. That makes no sense. That's not an opinion. that's just blind hate and it deserves no respect or consideration. Then I guess it's a case of no matter what he does, he just won't like him. He decided a long time ago that he just doesn't like him. Some people are that closed minded. It's the same with any wrestler, no form of improvement will change his mind. Is it blind hate? Hell yes it is? But what are you gonna do. There are people who still hate John Cena, thinking he's a terrible wrestler, when....he's not. He's hate a lot of great matches and moments, but there will forever be "You can't wrestle" chants, no matter how many great matches he has, those people won't change. So I guess I'm just thinking at this point, "Let em' hate him". It's really no skin off my teeth. I like what I like. He likes what he likes.
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