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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2013 19:24:36 GMT -5
Watched the shoot last night and it was shots at them for putting on 4 star matches instead of being characters. What got me annoyed was that Daniels is currently one of the best heel character going. How? He's a cocky guy who drinks a Martini it's hardly a massive character who has tons of back story. Take the Martini away and you have a generic cocky heel who cheats to win. And he is still one of the best heel characters around. Sometimes simple is best. SCSA was a beer swigging ass kicking red neck. Where is the great backstory. Taking away the the beer and he is any old face but with a Texas flair. Yet rose to the top because he was great at it. Simple does not mean bad. It just means that you can build off it easily and make it great. Over complicating things sometimes makes it worse. Daniels does not need anything else. Because he is good at being "generic"
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SOR
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Post by SOR on Aug 28, 2013 19:28:25 GMT -5
How? He's a cocky guy who drinks a Martini it's hardly a massive character who has tons of back story. Take the Martini away and you have a generic cocky heel who cheats to win. And he is still one of the best heel characters around. Sometimes simple is best. SCSA was a beer swigging ass kicking red neck. Where is the great backstory. Taking away the the beer and he is any old face but with a Texas flair. Yet rose to the top because he was great at it. Simple does not mean bad. It just means that you can build off it easily and make it great. Over complicating things sometimes makes it worse. Daniels does not need anything else. Because he is good at being "generic" Generic doesn't make money though. The way I see it if TNA was a Football team then your star players would be Hogan, Hardy, Sting, Angle you then have your solid players who can do a job and do well but they're never going to be the star player. I see Daniels in that light he's solid he's okay in his spot but the day they start trying to make him a star is the day I tune out.
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Post by Clueless Steve on Aug 28, 2013 19:33:43 GMT -5
And he is still one of the best heel characters around. Sometimes simple is best. SCSA was a beer swigging ass kicking red neck. Where is the great backstory. Taking away the the beer and he is any old face but with a Texas flair. Yet rose to the top because he was great at it. Simple does not mean bad. It just means that you can build off it easily and make it great. Over complicating things sometimes makes it worse. Daniels does not need anything else. Because he is good at being "generic" Generic doesn't make money though. The way I see it if TNA was a Football team then your star players would be Hogan, Hardy, Sting, Angle you then have your solid players who can do a job and do well but they're never going to be the star player. I see Daniels in that light he's solid he's okay in his spot but the day they start trying to make him a star is the day I tune out. Yeah, because bailing is the best option instead of giving the guy a chance and seeing if he becomes a star. That's why all those NFL teams cut players instead of throwing them out there and seeing what they really have. You can't say somebody won't be a star player when they haven't been given the chance.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2013 19:38:00 GMT -5
And he is still one of the best heel characters around. Sometimes simple is best. SCSA was a beer swigging ass kicking red neck. Where is the great backstory. Taking away the the beer and he is any old face but with a Texas flair. Yet rose to the top because he was great at it. Simple does not mean bad. It just means that you can build off it easily and make it great. Over complicating things sometimes makes it worse. Daniels does not need anything else. Because he is good at being "generic" Generic doesn't make money though. The way I see it if TNA was a Football team then your star players would be Hogan, Hardy, Sting, Angle you then have your solid players who can do a job and do well but they're never going to be the star player. I see Daniels in that light he's solid he's okay in his spot but the day they start trying to make him a star is the day I tune out. Generic does not make money? I guess you missed the part where I said SCSA was pretty generic but he was great at it. But who is Stone Cold Steve Austin anyway? I mean really. I understand the football ideal. But somtimes a star player comes from left field. I am a big Boston sports fan. So here is my example. We signed a little WR a few years ago from Miami. His name was Wes Welker. Now he was average. Not bad but never that good either. He came to the Patriots and exploded. No one really saw it coming. But he became one of the best WR in the league. Because he may have been average to start, but that did not matter once he was allowed to truly show his talents. Somtimes you need to play money ball. Find the parts that don't fit the big system and then build off that. The Athletics played Money ball and took the MLB by storm. Because they did just that. Took the guys who did not fit the big machines and exploded. A lot of fans wanted TNA to be that. The Athletics. Ya they don't have the names. But they are still dang good at what they do.
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SOR
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Post by SOR on Aug 28, 2013 19:44:14 GMT -5
Generic doesn't make money though. The way I see it if TNA was a Football team then your star players would be Hogan, Hardy, Sting, Angle you then have your solid players who can do a job and do well but they're never going to be the star player. I see Daniels in that light he's solid he's okay in his spot but the day they start trying to make him a star is the day I tune out. Yeah, because bailing is the best option instead of giving the guy a chance and seeing if he becomes a star. That's why all those NFL teams cut players instead of throwing them out there and seeing what they really have. You can't say somebody won't be a star player when they haven't been given the chance. Daniels has been given chances. He's main evented Pay Per View's, He's had World Title matches, Feuds with top guys and nobody outside of the internet cares. He's also in his 40's. I think his last time to shine was really last year when he had that mini feud with Jeff Hardy. He's too old now and TNA needs to focus on making their next big stars be guys like Chris Sabin, Gunner, Magnus etc
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Post by El Cokehead del Knife Fight on Aug 28, 2013 19:45:33 GMT -5
Russo never came up with Curry Man. That was all Daniels from when he was wrestling in Japan.
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Post by Clueless Steve on Aug 28, 2013 19:45:37 GMT -5
Yeah, because bailing is the best option instead of giving the guy a chance and seeing if he becomes a star. That's why all those NFL teams cut players instead of throwing them out there and seeing what they really have. You can't say somebody won't be a star player when they haven't been given the chance. Daniels has been given chances. He's main evented Pay Per View's, He's had World Title matches, Feuds with top guys and nobody outside of the internet cares. Plenty of people, namely the ones in the crowd, cared.
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SOR
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Post by SOR on Aug 28, 2013 19:47:49 GMT -5
Daniels has been given chances. He's main evented Pay Per View's, He's had World Title matches, Feuds with top guys and nobody outside of the internet cares. Plenty of people, namely the ones in the crowd, cared. In the Impact Zone. Which is smark central. Who cares about Daniels now that TNA is on the road? Generic doesn't make money though. The way I see it if TNA was a Football team then your star players would be Hogan, Hardy, Sting, Angle you then have your solid players who can do a job and do well but they're never going to be the star player. I see Daniels in that light he's solid he's okay in his spot but the day they start trying to make him a star is the day I tune out. Generic does not make money? I guess you missed the part where I said SCSA was pretty generic but he was great at it. But who is Stone Cold Steve Austin anyway? I mean really. I understand the football ideal. But somtimes a star player comes from left field. I am a big Boston sports fan. So here is my example. We signed a little WR a few years ago from Miami. His name was Wes Welker. Now he was average. Not bad but never that good either. He came to the Patriots and exploded. No one really saw it coming. But he became one of the best WR in the league. Because he may have been average to start, but that did not matter once he was allowed to truly show his talents. Somtimes you need to play money ball. Find the parts that don't fit the big system and then build off that. The Athletics played Money ball and took the MLB by storm. Because they did just that. Took the guys who did not fit the big machines and exploded. A lot of fans wanted TNA to be that. The Athletics. Ya they don't have the names. But they are still dang good at what they do. I ignored the Austin comment because he was far from generic. He had the first real anti authority angle and WWE did a lot of original stuff with him. It wasn't a deep character but it was an exciting one and you never knew what he was going to do week to week With Daniels, you know. He's going to come out, he's going to drink a Martini, He may throw the Martini in someones eyes. Comparing Austin with Daniels is insane.
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Post by Clueless Steve on Aug 28, 2013 19:48:36 GMT -5
Plenty of people, namely the ones in the crowd, cared. In the Impact Zone. Which is smark central. Who cares about Daniels now that TNA is on the road? The people reacting to him in the crowd?
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SOR
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Post by SOR on Aug 28, 2013 19:50:53 GMT -5
In the Impact Zone. Which is smark central. Who cares about Daniels now that TNA is on the road? The people reacting to him in the crowd? Daniels gets very little reaction week to week. Guys like Magnus, AJ and Joe get bigger cheers then him.
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Post by Clueless Steve on Aug 28, 2013 19:54:11 GMT -5
The people reacting to him in the crowd? Daniels gets very little reaction week to week. Guys like Magnus, AJ and Joe get bigger cheers then him. All 3 of those guys were given higher profile angles. They finally give Daniels one (the alliance with Roode) and he gets stronger reactions too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2013 20:00:04 GMT -5
Generic does not make money? I guess you missed the part where I said SCSA was pretty generic but he was great at it. But who is Stone Cold Steve Austin anyway? I mean really. I understand the football ideal. But somtimes a star player comes from left field. I am a big Boston sports fan. So here is my example. We signed a little WR a few years ago from Miami. His name was Wes Welker. Now he was average. Not bad but never that good either. He came to the Patriots and exploded. No one really saw it coming. But he became one of the best WR in the league. Because he may have been average to start, but that did not matter once he was allowed to truly show his talents. Somtimes you need to play money ball. Find the parts that don't fit the big system and then build off that. The Athletics played Money ball and took the MLB by storm. Because they did just that. Took the guys who did not fit the big machines and exploded. A lot of fans wanted TNA to be that. The Athletics. Ya they don't have the names. But they are still dang good at what they do. I ignored the Austin comment because he was far from generic. He had the first real anti authority angle and WWE did a lot of original stuff with him. It wasn't a deep character but it was an exciting one and you never knew what he was going to do week to week With Daniels, you know. He's going to come out, he's going to drink a Martini, He may throw the Martini in someones eyes. Comparing Austin with Daniels is insane. And what was Austin going to do? Drink beer and kick ass. That is the point I am getting across. Ya it was original at that time and done great. Yet at the same time Daniels does a great job at being simple. You don't need to break the bank with a character. At the end of the day we need people to cheer and people to boo. Whether we want more character then wrestling or vise versa is fine. But saying one is right and the other wrong is not good. I tune into a lot of companies because I like a large plate of different styles. I like characters as much as wrestling. I would rather watch Daniels put on a dang good match as the egotistical S.O.B. he is now then watch any over gimmick-ed character that is meant to be exciting, yet falls flat on his face.
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Post by El Cokehead del Knife Fight on Aug 28, 2013 20:07:15 GMT -5
I ignored the Austin comment because he was far from generic. He had the first real anti authority angle and WWE did a lot of original stuff with him. It wasn't a deep character but it was an exciting one and you never knew what he was going to do week to week With Daniels, you know. He's going to come out, he's going to drink a Martini, He may throw the Martini in someones eyes. Comparing Austin with Daniels is insane. And what was Austin going to do? Drink beer and kick ass. That is the point I am getting across. Ya it was original at that time and done great. Yet at the same time Daniels does a great job at being simple. You don't need to break the bank with a character. At the end of the day we need people to cheer and people to boo. Whether we want more character then wrestling or vise versa is fine. But saying one is right and the other wrong is not good. I tune into a lot of companies because I like a large plate of different styles. I like characters as much as wrestling. I would rather watch Daniels put on a dang good match as the egotistical S.O.B. he is now then watch any over gimmick-ed character that is meant to be exciting, yet falls flat on his face. Aint worth arguing with SOR. Dude hates Daniels something fierce while he'd knock someone out with his hardon for Hogan & Bischoff if he turned suddenly.
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Post by Hit Girl on Aug 28, 2013 20:13:16 GMT -5
Russo is an idiot. He's ragging on wrestlers for wanting to put on good wrestling matches above all else? Come on. Although isn't he kind of right. All he was saying was that characters are what draw money and are what the performers use to get people invested into their wrestling match. He said that without character the whatever star matches don't mean anything when it's just spot after spot which is right, is it not? I don't see how those statements are idiotic at all. Shame he never applied this to his booking in WCW
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Post by JTG Fan on Aug 28, 2013 20:21:04 GMT -5
SOR in the TNA board has got to be a performance art piece, right?
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BigBadZ
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Post by BigBadZ on Aug 28, 2013 20:24:39 GMT -5
Yeah, because bailing is the best option instead of giving the guy a chance and seeing if he becomes a star. That's why all those NFL teams cut players instead of throwing them out there and seeing what they really have. You can't say somebody won't be a star player when they haven't been given the chance. Daniels has been given chances. He's main evented Pay Per View's, He's had World Title matches, Feuds with top guys and nobody outside of the internet cares. He's also in his 40's. I think his last time to shine was really last year when he had that mini feud with Jeff Hardy. He's too old now and TNA needs to focus on making their next big stars be guys like Chris Sabin, Gunner, Magnus etc Your thread on page 1 of the TNA boardHogan - 60 years old Bully Ray - 42 years old
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SOR
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Post by SOR on Aug 28, 2013 20:47:49 GMT -5
And what was Austin going to do? Drink beer and kick ass. That is the point I am getting across. Ya it was original at that time and done great. Yet at the same time Daniels does a great job at being simple. You don't need to break the bank with a character. At the end of the day we need people to cheer and people to boo. Whether we want more character then wrestling or vise versa is fine. But saying one is right and the other wrong is not good. I tune into a lot of companies because I like a large plate of different styles. I like characters as much as wrestling. I would rather watch Daniels put on a dang good match as the egotistical S.O.B. he is now then watch any over gimmick-ed character that is meant to be exciting, yet falls flat on his face. Aint worth arguing with SOR. Dude hates Daniels something fierce while he'd knock someone out with his hardon for Hogan & Bischoff if he turned suddenly. You're actually wrong and you usually come off as a good poster on this board so I'm surprised at the pot shot. I like Christopher Daniels. He was the first wrestler I ever met when I was about 14 and he was very kind to me. Gave me a free autograph and thanked me for coming out. This was in 2005 during his Fallen Angel days and I've never forgotten that. I feel he does have his place in TNA I just don't see him as a main event guy. Doesn't mean I hate him just means I can't see him main eventing the second biggest company in the United States. Daniels has been given chances. He's main evented Pay Per View's, He's had World Title matches, Feuds with top guys and nobody outside of the internet cares. He's also in his 40's. I think his last time to shine was really last year when he had that mini feud with Jeff Hardy. He's too old now and TNA needs to focus on making their next big stars be guys like Chris Sabin, Gunner, Magnus etc Your thread on page 1 of the TNA boardHogan - 60 years old Bully Ray - 42 years old For a one off match on Impact to boost ratings and make Bully look good before he presumably loses to AJ at BFG. I was not for 60 year old Hulk Hogan having a main event run like you are attempting to imply.
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Glitch
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Post by Glitch on Aug 28, 2013 21:06:24 GMT -5
I actually find this as an insult to casual fans. That they are too stupid to appreciate technical wrestling. Now given, the average joe may not know the diversity of the moves used, or even what certain moves are called. But they can recognize a complex or flashy move being done. Or for the matter if it looks very painful.
I liken it to people much rather preferring a movie with a martial arts fight over a regular fist fight.
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Aug 28, 2013 22:07:25 GMT -5
Bret Hart 5x WWF Champion (most of those before Russo) 2x WWF Intercontinental Champion (before Russo) 2x WWF Tag Team Champion (Before Russo) Would rather have 5 star matches than character
Nuff Said.
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Post by Hit Girl on Aug 28, 2013 22:14:24 GMT -5
Based on Russo's booking, I can only presume he thinks wrestling is best when it's being done by crap characters, many of them based on obvious and dumb references to sex, who have comedy matches with ridiculous stipulations with meaningless outcomes that drive away viewers in their droves and contribute towards bringing down a company.
Because that's the shit he's most famous for.
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