mrbananagrabber
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Paul Heyman's unofficial joke writer
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Post by mrbananagrabber on Sept 8, 2013 4:56:25 GMT -5
This was briefly mentioned in another thread, but as far as in-joke references go, do you think Kane pushing Ryder off the stage was Vince's way of saying "oh, you want me to PUSH Ryder? Here ya go!"
Because, wow, that makes perfect sense now, because Ryder never captured his momentum back after that (or got even with Kane, for that matter).
So am I just incredibly dim for not getting the joke? Do you think that was the entire point of the segment?
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Sept 8, 2013 5:00:45 GMT -5
I wouldn't say that was the entire point, but people have been making that joke for a while now.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Sept 8, 2013 5:04:41 GMT -5
The point was to get Kane heat and to have Cena look like the valiant best friend. That would have potentially worked if they didn't have him make out with Eve, as if no one would find that strange. It did lead to a heel turn for Eve she ultimately benefited from, but it didn't do Ryder any favors.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Sept 8, 2013 5:08:48 GMT -5
I still like Ryder, because even though he was all whiny about it, I sympathise because he really got shafted after he won the US Championship. It's honestly why I want him to be a part of this big "Rebels v Corporation" storyline, because dammit he has just as much reason to stick it to them more than anyone except for probably Bryan.
"The machine ground him down once before. In the darkest hour, does he have one more fight left in him?
...You know it."
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Post by The Baltimore Staircase on Sept 8, 2013 5:29:43 GMT -5
Am I remember this right when I say the whole "closure" to this thing was Ryder getting kicked in the balls at Mania?
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Post by The Beast Disincarnate on Sept 8, 2013 12:40:40 GMT -5
The bottom line is that Ryder looked like a pathetic fool...but before his push he already was one, and on youtube he was one so...nothing really changed for him, it's just that the people got tired of the meme, like they get tired of every meme after a while.
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Post by Brother Nero....Wolfe on Sept 8, 2013 12:43:53 GMT -5
Am I remember this right when I say the whole "closure" to this thing was Ryder getting kicked in the balls at Mania? Strangely enough, the closure was on a Live Smackdown throwing a drink on Eve and then defeating Kane on a battle royal(because his kayfabe power gets a ridiculous boost when that happens for...some reason). THE MOST HARDCORE OF BLOOD FEUDS HELL IN A BATTLE ROYAL |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2013 12:51:09 GMT -5
I'd like to think Vince came up with this first, and then worked backwards to fill in the rest. Cena's pre-Mania storyline, Kane's remasking, Eve heel turn, all if it was just incidental to getting to Zack Ryder being PUSHED off the stage in a wheelchair.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2013 12:56:50 GMT -5
Ryder kidnapped Kane after Sunmerslam and is keeping him locked in Big O's basement.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2013 13:04:27 GMT -5
Is it just me who doesn't see any real upside to Zack Ryder from a creative perspective? He's decent in the ring, but his gimmick sucks and he can't act to save his life.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Sept 8, 2013 14:41:51 GMT -5
Is it just me who doesn't see any real upside to Zack Ryder from a creative perspective? He's decent in the ring, but his gimmick sucks and he can't act to save his life. His acting is usually considered the biggest reason he plateaued, so it's not just you. |
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Post by Manute Bol on Sept 8, 2013 15:04:24 GMT -5
Is it just me who doesn't see any real upside to Zack Ryder from a creative perspective? He's decent in the ring, but his gimmick sucks and he can't act to save his life. Not just you at all. I never understood the cult following he managed to build for himself. I can't recommend a single Zack Ryder match, and personally I've never found him funny at all. Factor in his atrocious acting abilities (how's that for assonance), and I'm simply dumbfounded as to what everyone saw in the guy. |
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Sept 8, 2013 15:14:44 GMT -5
Is it just me who doesn't see any real upside to Zack Ryder from a creative perspective? He's decent in the ring, but his gimmick sucks and he can't act to save his life. While Ryder isn't main event or even upper midcard material, I always thought Ryder could've been pushed in a role similar to Santino's old spot, someone who's regularly featured in segments and generally protected because he's barely used to job. Like he'd get decent screen time on the main shows, but mostly wrestle on Superstars teaming with and going over his fellow low carders. WWE screwed him because they made no effort to protect his weaknesses. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2013 15:15:51 GMT -5
Is it just me who doesn't see any real upside to Zack Ryder from a creative perspective? He's decent in the ring, but his gimmick sucks and he can't act to save his life. While Ryder isn't main event or even upper midcard material, I always thought Ryder could've been pushed in a role similar to Santino's old spot, someone who's regularly featured in segments and generally protected because he's barely used to job. Like he'd get decent screen time on the main shows, but mostly wrestle on Superstars teaming with and going over his fellow low carders. WWE screwed him because they made no effort to protect his weaknesses. I'll agree with all that, despite not being a Ryder fan. He's over, WWE should at least be using him regularly. |
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Post by Brother Nero....Wolfe on Sept 8, 2013 18:16:13 GMT -5
Is it just me who doesn't see any real upside to Zack Ryder from a creative perspective? He's decent in the ring, but his gimmick sucks and he can't act to save his life. From a creative perspective, he was a true underdog the audience loved. Then they made his story into what Rocky 1 would be like if, after the entire movie about him trying to be someone while everyone laughed at him for being a loser, he got knocked out round 1 against Apollo. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2013 18:25:23 GMT -5
Is it just me who doesn't see any real upside to Zack Ryder from a creative perspective? He's decent in the ring, but his gimmick sucks and he can't act to save his life. From a creative perspective, he was a true underdog the audience loved. Then they made his story into what Rocky 1 would be like if, after the entire movie about him trying to be someone while everyone laughed at him for being a loser, he got knocked out round 1 against Apollo. Sounds a lot like a WWE Studios production. |
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Post by Joe Neglia on Sept 8, 2013 18:27:26 GMT -5
The problem with Ryder, IMHO, is that he was a one-trick pony that didn't have that special something to transcend to the next level when they did give him the ball. They recognized his following, put the belt on him and...it was just the same old "Woo woo woo." As much as the powers that be are at fault for not pushing him earlier to cash in on the cult following, he deserves as much of the "credit" for failing by not really stepping up.
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Post by Brother Nero....Wolfe on Sept 8, 2013 18:31:53 GMT -5
The problem with Ryder, IMHO, is that he was a one-trick pony that didn't have that special something to transcend to the next level when they did give him the ball. They recognized his following, put the belt on him and...it was just the same old "Woo woo woo." As much as the powers that be are at fault for not pushing him earlier to cash in on the cult following, he deserves as much of the "credit" for failing by not really stepping up. Step up to...what? Like, I don't claim him to be the second coming of Steve Austin, I don't even claim he's a good actor. But I see this "He failed to step up" argument all the time when IMMEDIATELY after winning the title he got Kane'd. Like, how do you step up from that? What was he supposed to do while the script required him to be unable to change a tire, be put on a wheelchair and be cheated on by his best friend? The Rock himself couldn't do anything with that script. |
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Post by turkeysandwich on Sept 8, 2013 18:43:59 GMT -5
Am I remember this right when I say the whole "closure" to this thing was Ryder getting kicked in the balls at Mania? I was hoping this would become like Kane/Pete Rose and every year a different diva kicks Ryder in the balls at Mania. |
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Post by Joe Neglia on Sept 8, 2013 18:50:49 GMT -5
The problem with Ryder, IMHO, is that he was a one-trick pony that didn't have that special something to transcend to the next level when they did give him the ball. They recognized his following, put the belt on him and...it was just the same old "Woo woo woo." As much as the powers that be are at fault for not pushing him earlier to cash in on the cult following, he deserves as much of the "credit" for failing by not really stepping up. Step up to...what? Like, I don't claim him to be the second coming of Steve Austin, I don't even claim he's a good actor. But I see this "He failed to step up" argument all the time when IMMEDIATELY after winning the title he got Kane'd. Like, how do you step up from that? What was he supposed to do while the script required him to be unable to change a tire, be put on a wheelchair and be cheated on by his best friend? The Rock himself couldn't do anything with that script. You say "IMMEDIATELY" yet the Kane attack didn't happen for a month afterward, the Cena/Eve thing two months afterward. |
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