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Post by cabbageboy on Sept 27, 2013 22:14:42 GMT -5
Honestly I think they just wanted to keep the Option C bit going for now. There was no real long term direction in putting the belt on Sabin and it had no point. I speculated previously that Rob Van Dam quitting TNA left them high and dry in terms of a credible X Division champ that could have been viable for such a cash in. Instead the X title was a hot potato from Kenny King to Sabin to Aries to Sabin and none of it got over at all (especially with the 3 man matches).
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kidglov3s
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Post by kidglov3s on Sept 27, 2013 22:40:37 GMT -5
Honestly I think they just wanted to keep the Option C bit going for now. There was no real long term direction in putting the belt on Sabin and it had no point. I speculated previously that Rob Van Dam quitting TNA left them high and dry in terms of a credible X Division champ that could have been viable for such a cash in. Instead the X title was a hot potato from Kenny King to Sabin to Aries to Sabin and none of it got over at all (especially with the 3 man matches). I think it would've been best for TNA, Bully Ray, myself, Chris Sabin, Verne Gagne, Option C and Vitamin C (the singer) if Sabin had come close but failed in cashing in. Sabin would've gained more by looking good losing than looking bad winning, Bully Ray would've had a continuous title reign and maybe Vitamin C would've been inspired to create a song for the X Division. As we go on, We remember, All the times we, Fought on impact.
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Post by gnr123 on Sept 27, 2013 23:03:24 GMT -5
Who's hasn't?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2013 5:41:47 GMT -5
I think if you were a casual fan flipping through the channels, you'd be like "WTF, Bubba Ray Dudley is champion of this show? That's lame"
While he's critically acclaimed, to the general public. He's that tag team guy that wears tye dye.
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Post by Mozenrath on Sept 28, 2013 6:22:42 GMT -5
I think if you were a casual fan flipping through the channels, you'd be like "WTF, Bubba Ray Dudley is champion of this show? That's lame" While he's critically acclaimed, to the general public. He's that tag team guy that wears tye dye. By that logic, virtually anyone in the company who is not Kurt or Jeff would get "Who the f*** is that guy? That's lame." That, and he hasn't worn tie-dye with any regularity in almost 15 years. At least it'd be someone they've heard of before.
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Post by Hit Girl on Sept 28, 2013 12:53:29 GMT -5
I think if you were a casual fan flipping through the channels, you'd be like "WTF, Bubba Ray Dudley is champion of this show? That's lame" While he's critically acclaimed, to the general public. He's that tag team guy that wears tye dye. Agreed He should be nowhere near a world title.
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Post by HMARK Center on Sept 28, 2013 19:42:24 GMT -5
Bully was absolutely fine for awhile, but once they clearly lost the entire idea of what they were trying to accomplish with Aces and Eights things just went off the rails.
If they had figured out a way to fix the stable, keep it filled with legitimate threats (or even just make it a big enough group that they're a threat just due to volume), and make the "hierarchy" of it clear, then I think things wouldn't feel so aimless.
As it is, though, I think they saw that people were losing patience with Aces and Eights; rather than fix it, since I'm sure they're planning on killing it by BFG anyway, they're letting it just drift away.
Bully needs a few weeks of just establishing himself, on his own, independent of the group.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2013 21:46:56 GMT -5
Bully could be a top heel but he has been done no favors as far as booking or challengers go. I think that a big part of it is the BFG Series, it sounds like a good concept in theory but in actuality it ties up all of the top contenders from battling the champ for those months so he gets stuck in some lameassed feud with lameassed Chris Sabin. That's not even getting into the lameassed marriage angle with Brooke Hogan.
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kidglov3s
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Post by kidglov3s on Sept 28, 2013 21:51:57 GMT -5
The BFG series really needs to either completely go or be seriously overhauled.
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Post by rawthentic on Sept 29, 2013 3:05:39 GMT -5
The biggest problem is that he's yet to have that signature feud. A champion is only as good as his challenger and Bully had had very forgettable feuds. TNA's had this problem a lot lately. They gave Aries the title win and gave him no one to feud with. Roode was kind of the same way in that his big foe was supposed to be James Storm, but TNA booked Storm into oblivion. TNa needs to create some interesting feuds. Here we are, 3 weeks from their biggest show of the year and their world title match participants have yet to share a single promo. Next week we will get one and by then we'll be 2 weeks from BFG. TNA has seriously flopped with building to this show. And this was supposed to have been avoided by dropping all these PPVs! Roode was much different. I felt his title reign was excellent. While he didnt have a huge feud with any particular opponent..the running feud throughout his reign seemed to be with Sting if i remember correctly. The now old authority figure vs. wrestler but it was well done. Roode always won in a BS way and the big feud they were building up to only lasted for a lackluster PPV but overall Roode's reign was very good. It was a long reign that i thought ended too soon. I'm surpried they havent really given Roode the ball again since nobody has touched his reign since. I remember reading Hogan wasnt keen on Roode being the champ though. I thought he looked very much like he belonged in the main event the whole time.
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Post by Shark on Sept 29, 2013 3:34:30 GMT -5
The biggest problem is that he's yet to have that signature feud. A champion is only as good as his challenger and Bully had had very forgettable feuds. TNA's had this problem a lot lately. They gave Aries the title win and gave him no one to feud with. Roode was kind of the same way in that his big foe was supposed to be James Storm, but TNA booked Storm into oblivion. TNa needs to create some interesting feuds. Here we are, 3 weeks from their biggest show of the year and their world title match participants have yet to share a single promo. Next week we will get one and by then we'll be 2 weeks from BFG. TNA has seriously flopped with building to this show. And this was supposed to have been avoided by dropping all these PPVs! Roode was much different. I felt his title reign was excellent. While he didnt have a huge feud with any particular opponent..the running feud throughout his reign seemed to be with Sting if i remember correctly. The now old authority figure vs. wrestler but it was well done. Roode always won in a BS way and the big feud they were building up to only lasted for a lackluster PPV but overall Roode's reign was very good. It was a long reign that i thought ended too soon. I'm surpried they havent really given Roode the ball again since nobody has touched his reign since. I remember reading Hogan wasnt keen on Roode being the champ though. I thought he looked very much like he belonged in the main event the whole time. That is a fair point. My big problem though was that Sting was his rival. I've always had a problem with how Sting's been booked in TNA and that was just another example of it. Plus I always thought Roode winning in a BS way was part of the problem. He never looked like a legit champion in my eyes. The cheery on top was when he beat Sting at, I think Slammiversary, after Sting knocked himself out doing his own finisher. Then Sting still ended the night standing tall. I had a lot of problems with how TNA booked Roode as champion.
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Sept 29, 2013 3:59:54 GMT -5
I think if you were a casual fan flipping through the channels, you'd be like "WTF, Bubba Ray Dudley is champion of this show? That's lame" While he's critically acclaimed, to the general public. He's that tag team guy that wears tye dye. By that logic, virtually anyone in the company who is not Kurt or Jeff would get "Who the f*** is that guy? That's lame." That, and he hasn't worn tie-dye with any regularity in almost 15 years. At least it'd be someone they've heard of before. Not really, it's more that he has an extablished identity as a lower card guy. Someone's flicking through the channels and sees someone they don't know, they'll stop and think "I wonder who this guy is and if he's any good" whereas if they see Bully, they remember him and have predjudices against him being a top guy because of his status. I actually have a theory that for someone to be a really big success, they have to win their first world title within 3 years of debuting in a company. If you wait longer, there's always a hint of them being a midcarder in the back of an audiences mind. If you look at those who won a title within 3 years, you get Hogan, Savage, Taker, Austin, Rock, HHH, most of the big names in boom periods, the guys who waited longer were a bit less successful, Hart, HBK etc. It's not a perfect theory, there are a few exceptions but as a general rule it makes sense.
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Post by Mozenrath on Sept 29, 2013 4:08:13 GMT -5
By that logic, virtually anyone in the company who is not Kurt or Jeff would get "Who the f*** is that guy? That's lame." That, and he hasn't worn tie-dye with any regularity in almost 15 years. At least it'd be someone they've heard of before. Not really, it's more that he has an extablished identity as a lower card guy. Someone's flicking through the channels and sees someone they don't know, they'll stop and think "I wonder who this guy is and if he's any good" whereas if they see Bully, they remember him and have predjudices against him being a top guy because of his status. I actually have a theory that for someone to be a really big success, they have to win their first world title within 3 years of debuting in a company. If you wait longer, there's always a hint of them being a midcarder in the back of an audiences mind. If you look at those who won a title within 3 years, you get Hogan, Savage, Taker, Austin, Rock, HHH, most of the big names in boom periods, the guys who waited longer were a bit less successful, Hart, HBK etc. It's not a perfect theory, there are a few exceptions but as a general rule it makes sense. To a degree, but that is overlooking that the Dudleyz were a pretty damn popular team in the peak of WWE's popularity. The kind of people who would hold it against Bully that he was Buh Buh are the same people who would know what TNA was and what he was doing there. Otherwise, they would either probably have been a fan, given the Dudleyz and Hardyz were so loved, or they'd be the kind of buffoon who would see the different name and not make the connection, going back to wondering how the Twelfth Ultimate Warrior is doing nowadays.
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Sept 29, 2013 6:08:33 GMT -5
They may be a fan, but that's different to seeing someone as a believable top guy, and that reflect on a promotion when you have no other frame of reference.
Even within the TLC matches, if you asked at the time who would be a good singles star, Bubba would come about 4th.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Sept 29, 2013 10:30:22 GMT -5
Why DID they have Sabin have that weak ass win and subsequent non-run? It didn't elevate him, instead making him look like a fluke-y idiot, and it derailed any momentum Bully had, which he hasn't recovered yet. Because TNA wanted to be unpredictable and gave Sabin a Lex Luger type of reign. Sabin's win would had meant something if he didn't look like a weak bitch against Bully. When the only way you could beat Bully was via outside interference and a hammer shot, you're doomed. Especially when you're suppose to be the face. Bully wasn't over enough to shrug off the lost and him winning back the title was a forgone conclusion. And Sabin wasn't elevated and is actually worst off before he won the title. Chris Sabin's "my gilrfriend is friends with the owner so I get a run" non-reign is the new "Lex Luger beat Yokozuna by countout".
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Sept 29, 2013 10:33:39 GMT -5
Bully was absolutely fine for awhile, but once they clearly lost the entire idea of what they were trying to accomplish with Aces and Eights things just went off the rails. If they had figured out a way to fix the stable, keep it filled with legitimate threats (or even just make it a big enough group that they're a threat just due to volume), and make the "hierarchy" of it clear, then I think things wouldn't feel so aimless. As it is, though, I think they saw that people were losing patience with Aces and Eights; rather than fix it, since I'm sure they're planning on killing it by BFG anyway, they're letting it just drift away. Bully needs a few weeks of just establishing himself, on his own, independent of the group. I'm still convinced that Bully wasn't supposed to be the leeader of Aces and Eights and they just went with him when whoever their original choice was didn't work out, ala Vince being the Higher Power.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Sept 29, 2013 11:28:15 GMT -5
Can't blame Bully for how things have panned out, no-one could have a good run on top when their main feud is with someone who the audience knows is in no condition to work a match. He was in a program there was no way to bring to a satisfying conclusion, Hulk Hogan can no longer wrestle, he made that public by suing his doctor, Brooke Hogan can't act and blew her storyline by announcing her engagement while 'married' to Bully, if they had put the belt on someone else, they would still have found themselves playing second fiddle to that storyline or whatever else Hulk Hogan was up to.
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Post by Lick Ness Monster on Sept 29, 2013 15:04:14 GMT -5
The BFG series really needs to either completely go or be seriously overhauled. I would be just fine with 4-6 wrestlers being in the BFG series. 12 is just way too damn many people to be tied up for all of that time. I mean, really...did even the markiest of marks out there think that Jay Bradley or Hernandez had any shot at winning the thing?
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Post by ________ has left the building on Sept 29, 2013 15:57:26 GMT -5
Because TNA wanted to be unpredictable and gave Sabin a Lex Luger type of reign. Sabin's win would had meant something if he didn't look like a weak bitch against Bully. When the only way you could beat Bully was via outside interference and a hammer shot, you're doomed. Especially when you're suppose to be the face. Bully wasn't over enough to shrug off the lost and him winning back the title was a forgone conclusion. And Sabin wasn't elevated and is actually worst off before he won the title. Chris Sabin's "my gilrfriend is friends with the owner so I get a run" non-reign is the new "Lex Luger beat Yokozuna by countout". Sabin's reign is more like Dolph Ziggler's World title reigns except people still buy Ziggler as a title threat.
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Post by Ryushinku on Sept 30, 2013 7:28:13 GMT -5
They've said before that a James Bond film, and Bond himself, is only as good as his villain.
The same applies in reverse, of course. Bully's simply not had the opponent to match up to him, the best one was Anderson and that was a one-and-done deal it seems.
I think the Sabin title win was genuinely planned it to be a good run, that it would be popular with the smart fans to go for someone like him and also to reflect a similar Punk/Bryan viewpoint, but then typically then just lost interest again and went back to Bully.
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