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Post by AnActualBear on Oct 27, 2013 7:27:39 GMT -5
To the people saying "why do you want it to die if you don't watch it?" it's very simple:
- They treat their talent like shit.
- Lots of talented guys get the chance to possibly go to WWE and make some proper money. Guys like AJ, Daniels, Roode and Storm deserve better.
- They're just a budget version of WWE. They're Diet WWE. WWE-Lite. WWE Zero. Just one calorie, not WWE enough. They steal angles from 2 years ago and claim they're going to do it better, but who cares? People have seen it already, and the people who watch TNA (all 3 of you) are almost certainly WWE fans anyway.
- Nothing that happens in TNA matters. Who cares who the champion is? It doesn't matter in the slightest. They'll still get shitty ratings, they'll still get appalling buyrates and they'll still meander on with their mediocre programming until the Carters get fed up and sell it for peanuts. Don't get invested in this company because it's all a waste of time.
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Post by Citizen Snips on Oct 27, 2013 8:03:56 GMT -5
My main question is why on Earth do people think Disney would buy TNA? What were the last two big purchases Disney made? Marvel Comics and Star Wars. Two properties that will make Disney TONS of money. Why would they want a second tier wrestling promotion that has zero mainstream awareness?
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Oct 27, 2013 8:28:33 GMT -5
To the people saying "why do you want it to die if you don't watch it?" it's very simple: - They treat their talent like shit. - Lots of talented guys get the chance to possibly go to WWE and make some proper money. Guys like AJ, Daniels, Roode and Storm deserve better. - They're just a budget version of WWE. They're Diet WWE. WWE-Lite. WWE Zero. Just one calorie, not WWE enough. They steal angles from 2 years ago and claim they're going to do it better, but who cares? People have seen it already, and the people who watch TNA (all 3 of you) are almost certainly WWE fans anyway. - Nothing that happens in TNA matters. Who cares who the champion is? It doesn't matter in the slightest. They'll still get shitty ratings, they'll still get appalling buyrates and they'll still meander on with their mediocre programming until the Carters get fed up and sell it for peanuts. Don't get invested in this company because it's all a waste of time. I love the whole 'Company existing stops talented guys going to the WWE' notion, it's a branch of the same wrongheaded thought tree that brought us 'WCW stealing talent from ECW'. Their contracts have expired on more than one occasion in the past few years and in the window the WWE could have sent out feelers, they have not, or what they were offering was less than what they would get for staying in TNA. Guys with all the talent in the world like Austin Aries (They didn't even want him for tough enough) and Christopher Daniels waited for the WWE but that call didn't come so what, they're supposed to shake their heads and say 'No thanks TNA, while you're offering us several times what ROH can pay, a gig on TV and freedom to pursue other projects, I think I'm going to wait for WWE to come calling and accept less money for more work on the indy scene, assuming I get paid at all.' You should try asking guys who were active wrestlers when the WWE became the only game in town how wonderful it was to have the opportunity to have no steady work so they could wait for the WWE to hire them, and fans how wonderful wrestling was to watch at that time. TNA are not the best place to work, but good lord, the WWE has chewed up and spat out several hundred guys in the past 10 years, and I would be amazed if the number of guys who got a second chance after that treatment actually reaches more than two dozen. WWE do not have infinite roster space and TV time and there is no guarantee of being signed by them no matter how talented you are, people really, really need to get that notion out of their heads. I know people like to say 'Blah blah, WWE uses indy guys right now!', as god knows, the WWE is consistent about how it uses talent and there is no chance they will re-evaluate everything because of a small bump in the road and start hiring former footballers and Orton clones again. But yeah, having more places to work is bad for wrestling... Honestly, if Roode, Joe, Magnus, Aries, Styles and so on all left to go to the WWE, in 6 months people would be making the same arguments about the people brought in to replace them being too good for TNA, even if they're former developmental guys like Luke Gallows who've had to wrestle in plaes like Nigeria as the WWE hasn't looked twice at them since their departure because that's just how it goes. As for nothing happening in TNA mattering, nothing happening in either of the big two matters anymore. Everyone is horrendously overexposed and long term booking is dead, look how often everyone that isn't Cena flips from face to heel to face to heel, look how often belts are just tossed around to keep guys waists warm and how many people are in a the title holding pattern, where it's not a matter of if they'll ever be in the title scene again but when, that's not a TNA problem, that's a wrestling problem. The WWE is keeping buyrates up using guys who were over near enough 10 years ago on several times the money of anyone else on the roster which is unsustainable in the long term, ask WCW how well that worked out for them, or heck, TNA. Say what you want about TNA rehashing storylines from the past 2 years, at least the one they're doing currently is one they've never done before, and not the same evil boss versus upstart face the WWE is currently running with, the same one that they do once every two years as regular as clockwork, as god knows, McMahon family drama never gets old.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2013 9:05:44 GMT -5
The problem with TNA currently is there isn't a feeling of excitement and buzz. Bound For Glory wasn't the harbinger of a new day like most wanted it to be. It should had raised the spirits of the TNA fans and washed away the bad taste of the past year. But it just made folks feel like they were watching a wake. It didn't feel like a signature ppv. TNA done ppv themed Impacts that were better. With news of TNA hemorrhaging money like a hemophiliac in a deathmatch, Janice Carter hitting the Budget Cutter with pinpoint precision, and the return to the place that TNA hated because they have no choice; the mood won't get better any time soon. I agree, doesn't feel like I'm missing anything when I don't watch. And some of their angles are so telegraphed (the whole AJ Styles push for the gold that any somewhat regular viewer called last year), they throw nonsensical twists and turns just for the sake of being "unpredictable". 2 hours is just too darn long for a company without a lot of big names and angles. One hour is plenty; turn the show into an old-school episode of Superstars. Bring back some squash matches so some of your mid-card guys feel like big deals again instead of fodder for the top guys week after week. And to fill out 3-hour PPVs, have some outside wrestling promotions bring in their guys. Bring in a Chikara match, have a AAA match, have a couple of those people from OVW show us what they got. Make it a sort of independent wrestling festival. Bring back the buzz.
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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 27, 2013 9:46:53 GMT -5
My main question is why on Earth do people think Disney would buy TNA? What were the last two big purchases Disney made? Marvel Comics and Star Wars. Two properties that will make Disney TONS of money. Why would they want a second tier wrestling promotion that has zero mainstream awareness? Personally I think it'd be easier for Disney to just launch their own wrestling company from scratch.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Oct 27, 2013 10:02:32 GMT -5
My main question is why on Earth do people think Disney would buy TNA? What were the last two big purchases Disney made? Marvel Comics and Star Wars. Two properties that will make Disney TONS of money. Why would they want a second tier wrestling promotion that has zero mainstream awareness? I made the idea in a pure fantasy scenario. No way would Disney soiled their corporate brand with a company like TNA. But that doesn't stop me from dreaming it could happen just like I dream that Layla will arrive to my house and give me a nude lapdance for hours or I win 20 million dollars for no reason. If you stayed in reality too long, you loss your sense of wonder. But realistically if Disney was going to get into the pro wrestling racket, they would be training the older kids in the Disney children slave compound into becoming their wrestlers so they only know the Disney way and aren't corrupt by the outside world.
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Post by AnActualBear on Oct 27, 2013 10:06:35 GMT -5
Say what you want about TNA rehashing storylines from the past 2 years, at least the one they're doing currently is one they've never done before, and not the same evil boss versus upstart face the WWE is currently running with, the same one that they do once every two years as regular as clockwork, as god knows, McMahon family drama never gets old. It's exactly the same. Dixie Carter is basically female Vince, I'm not sure how you can't see that. And don't get me wrong, I'm not defending WWE at all. WWE is almost as bad most weeks, but the difference is they occasionally strike gold, whether it be Daniel Bryan's popularity or the first month of that CM Punk storyline before they completely ruined it. TNA is the same monotonous, poorly booked, badly performed, rinky dink promotion every week, and it will continue to be so until it is mercifully taken around the back of the shed and "Old Yeller'd". As for this fallacy that TNA is competition, it's simply wrong. You think WWE give a f*** about TNA? How could they possibly care what they do? There is no competition, there never has been, and there never will be. WWE has had no competition in 12 years and, barring either a massive collapse in business or a bored billionaire deciding to start a 'rasslin company, they won't have any for decades. It's sad, but the wrestling business loses nothing by TNA dying. As a matter of fact, most of the talent can probably make better money on the indies anyway since the pay is atrocious unless you are an old guy who drew money 15 years ago.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Oct 27, 2013 10:14:20 GMT -5
The problem with TNA currently is there isn't a feeling of excitement and buzz. Bound For Glory wasn't the harbinger of a new day like most wanted it to be. It should had raised the spirits of the TNA fans and washed away the bad taste of the past year. But it just made folks feel like they were watching a wake. It didn't feel like a signature ppv. TNA done ppv themed Impacts that were better. With news of TNA hemorrhaging money like a hemophiliac in a deathmatch, Janice Carter hitting the Budget Cutter with pinpoint precision, and the return to the place that TNA hated because they have no choice; the mood won't get better any time soon. I agree, doesn't feel like I'm missing anything when I don't watch. And some of their angles are so telegraphed (the whole AJ Styles push for the gold that any somewhat regular viewer called last year), they throw nonsensical twists and turns just for the sake of being "unpredictable". 2 hours is just too darn long for a company without a lot of big names and angles. One hour is plenty; turn the show into an old-school episode of Superstars. Bring back some squash matches so some of your mid-card guys feel like big deals again instead of fodder for the top guys week after week. And to fill out 3-hour PPVs, have some outside wrestling promotions bring in their guys. Bring in a Chikara match, have a AAA match, have a couple of those people from OVW show us what they got. Make it a sort of independent wrestling festival. Bring back the buzz. I like the idea of bringing in a guest wrestling match to draw up excitement. A Chikara match of Jigsaw vs Gran Akuma would be more buzzworthy than a Joseph Park vs Robbie E match. That's one of the things TNA used to do back in the day was bring in top indy and international talent & let them tear down the house. I'm sure AAA would send over a couple of their younger luchadores for a tour or a Japanese promotion would let one of their young boys spend their overseas training excursion in TNA. Jamin Olivencia, the current OVW champion and a guy who is a match away from breaking out, could defend the OVW title on Impact. Turning Dixe heel and the Fall of Styles isn't bringing the buzz like TNA hopes it will.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Oct 27, 2013 10:17:40 GMT -5
ideally, I'd like for Dixie to sell the company to someone else who actually knows what they're doing, because while I haven't watched TNA in a long time it's nice having a second promotion. but I don't see that happening. and while I feel very badly for a lot of the mis-treated talent in TNA, I certainly don't have an iota of sympathy for Dixie.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Oct 27, 2013 10:28:22 GMT -5
Although he expects it to be denied to high heaven. Meltzer this morning says the Carters want to sell TNA and there are changes being made in terms of TNA's ownership as we speak. Meltzer didn't say yes or no whether Bischoff would be interested. Bischoff Hervey Entertainment is not interested due to Scott Baio's NICK show getting renewed for a second season. But this will make for a tense and awkward holiday season at the Carter mansion.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Oct 27, 2013 10:39:28 GMT -5
Say what you want about TNA rehashing storylines from the past 2 years, at least the one they're doing currently is one they've never done before, and not the same evil boss versus upstart face the WWE is currently running with, the same one that they do once every two years as regular as clockwork, as god knows, McMahon family drama never gets old. It's exactly the same. Dixie Carter is basically female Vince, I'm not sure how you can't see that. And don't get me wrong, I'm not defending WWE at all. WWE is almost as bad most weeks, but the difference is they occasionally strike gold, whether it be Daniel Bryan's popularity or the first month of that CM Punk storyline before they completely ruined it. TNA is the same monotonous, poorly booked, badly performed, rinky dink promotion every week, and it will continue to be so until it is mercifully taken around the back of the shed and "Old Yeller'd". As for this fallacy that TNA is competition, it's simply wrong. You think WWE give a f*** about TNA? How could they possibly care what they do? There is no competition, there never has been, and there never will be. WWE has had no competition in 12 years and, barring either a massive collapse in business or a bored billionaire deciding to start a 'rasslin company, they won't have any for decades. It's sad, but the wrestling business loses nothing by TNA dying. As a matter of fact, most of the talent can probably make better money on the indies anyway since the pay is atrocious unless you are an old guy who drew money 15 years ago. That's just it though, the problems with TNA are wrestling problems in general, getting rid of TNA won't fix squat, all it will do is give guys one less place to work. The claim the big TNA names will earn more money on the indy scene is complete and utter claptrap, while it may well be the case for people like Robbie E, for anyone with any sort of name is flat out untrue. Ask Austin Aries about the money to be made on the indy scene, he was talking about retiring because he couldn't keep going on the money RoH and indies were willing to pay him and the WWE had rejected him... But yeah. TNA isn't competition for the WWE, no-one is saying that, we all wish it were the case but it isn't, we all know it isn't even close. The best it can hope to be is an alternative, for people who want to watch different styles of wrestling and for guys that the WWE have ignored or released to make money, which was what it was founded for.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Oct 27, 2013 13:03:36 GMT -5
Saying that TNA is "preventing" talented guys from going to WWE is really bizarre to me. First of all, if it wasn't for TNA, WWE would have never given most of these guys a second look. Second of all, it's WWE. I promise you that if they REALLY wanted anyone from TNA, they would already be there.
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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 27, 2013 13:28:15 GMT -5
WWE doesn't really need anyone from TNA, except maybe Hogan for embarassing promotional appearances.
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Post by Error on Oct 27, 2013 13:57:29 GMT -5
Saying that TNA is "preventing" talented guys from going to WWE is really bizarre to me. First of all, if it wasn't for TNA, WWE would have never given most of these guys a second look. Second of all, it's WWE. I promise you that if they REALLY wanted anyone from TNA, they would already be there. Exactly. Guys like AJ, Roode, Storm, Joe, Daniels and countless others have had their contracts lapse, been out of the company because of that and WWE doesn't even send them feelers. WWE doesn't see anything in TNA as worth having (except Sting). They are all damaged goods thanks to the way they've been booked and WWE is not interested. That is why no great indie talent is looking at TNA anymore, it's not worth it.
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jakes
Trap-Jaw
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Post by jakes on Oct 27, 2013 14:23:35 GMT -5
To the people saying "why do you want it to die if you don't watch it?" it's very simple: - They treat their talent like shit. - Lots of talented guys get the chance to possibly go to WWE and make some proper money. Guys like AJ, Daniels, Roode and Storm deserve better. - They're just a budget version of WWE. They're Diet WWE. WWE-Lite. WWE Zero. Just one calorie, not WWE enough. They steal angles from 2 years ago and claim they're going to do it better, but who cares? People have seen it already, and the people who watch TNA (all 3 of you) are almost certainly WWE fans anyway. - Nothing that happens in TNA matters. Who cares who the champion is? It doesn't matter in the slightest. They'll still get shitty ratings, they'll still get appalling buyrates and they'll still meander on with their mediocre programming until the Carters get fed up and sell it for peanuts. Don't get invested in this company because it's all a waste of time. I love the whole 'Company existing stops talented guys going to the WWE' notion, it's a branch of the same wrongheaded thought tree that brought us 'WCW stealing talent from ECW'. Their contracts have expired on more than one occasion in the past few years and in the window the WWE could have sent out feelers, they have not, or what they were offering was less than what they would get for staying in TNA. Guys with all the talent in the world like Austin Aries (They didn't even want him for tough enough) and Christopher Daniels waited for the WWE but that call didn't come so what, they're supposed to shake their heads and say 'No thanks TNA, while you're offering us several times what ROH can pay, a gig on TV and freedom to pursue other projects, I think I'm going to wait for WWE to come calling and accept less money for more work on the indy scene, assuming I get paid at all.' You should try asking guys who were active wrestlers when the WWE became the only game in town how wonderful it was to have the opportunity to have no steady work so they could wait for the WWE to hire them, and fans how wonderful wrestling was to watch at that time. TNA are not the best place to work, but good lord, the WWE has chewed up and spat out several hundred guys in the past 10 years, and I would be amazed if the number of guys who got a second chance after that treatment actually reaches more than two dozen. WWE do not have infinite roster space and TV time and there is no guarantee of being signed by them no matter how talented you are, people really, really need to get that notion out of their heads. I know people like to say 'Blah blah, WWE uses indy guys right now!', as god knows, the WWE is consistent about how it uses talent and there is no chance they will re-evaluate everything because of a small bump in the road and start hiring former footballers and Orton clones again. But yeah, having more places to work is bad for wrestling... Honestly, if Roode, Joe, Magnus, Aries, Styles and so on all left to go to the WWE, in 6 months people would be making the same arguments about the people brought in to replace them being too good for TNA, even if they're former developmental guys like Luke Gallows who've had to wrestle in plaes like Nigeria as the WWE hasn't looked twice at them since their departure because that's just how it goes. As for nothing happening in TNA mattering, nothing happening in either of the big two matters anymore. Everyone is horrendously overexposed and long term booking is dead, look how often everyone that isn't Cena flips from face to heel to face to heel, look how often belts are just tossed around to keep guys waists warm and how many people are in a the title holding pattern, where it's not a matter of if they'll ever be in the title scene again but when, that's not a TNA problem, that's a wrestling problem. The WWE is keeping buyrates up using guys who were over near enough 10 years ago on several times the money of anyone else on the roster which is unsustainable in the long term, ask WCW how well that worked out for them, or heck, TNA. Say what you want about TNA rehashing storylines from the past 2 years, at least the one they're doing currently is one they've never done before, and not the same evil boss versus upstart face the WWE is currently running with, the same one that they do once every two years as regular as clockwork, as god knows, McMahon family drama never gets old. Exactly. Not only that, but it has been recently been made clear that WWE doesb not want anybody from TNA or the indies. They only want to sign people they would have start from scratch themselves. They are also not looking for anymore smaller wrestlers. They think wrestlers working in non-WWE promotions have bad habits.
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Post by Michael Coello on Oct 27, 2013 14:49:58 GMT -5
Saying that TNA is "preventing" talented guys from going to WWE is really bizarre to me. First of all, if it wasn't for TNA, WWE would have never given most of these guys a second look. Second of all, it's WWE. I promise you that if they REALLY wanted anyone from TNA, they would already be there. Exactly. Guys like AJ, Roode, Storm, Joe, Daniels and countless others have had their contracts lapse, been out of the company because of that and WWE doesn't even send them feelers. WWE doesn't see anything in TNA as worth having (except Sting). They are all damaged goods thanks to the way they've been booked and WWE is not interested. That is why no great indie talent is looking at TNA anymore, it's not worth it. Oh, BS. Remember R-Truth? His last TNA angle was going Hollywood with bad trailer jokes and a team up with Pacman. They still got him in to return. You can't be both damaged goods to someone and not have an impact enough to be noticed to the same person.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Oct 27, 2013 15:01:09 GMT -5
Exactly. Guys like AJ, Roode, Storm, Joe, Daniels and countless others have had their contracts lapse, been out of the company because of that and WWE doesn't even send them feelers. WWE doesn't see anything in TNA as worth having (except Sting). They are all damaged goods thanks to the way they've been booked and WWE is not interested. That is why no great indie talent is looking at TNA anymore, it's not worth it. Oh, BS. Remember R-Truth? His last TNA angle was going Hollywood with bad trailer jokes and a team up with Pacman. They still got him in to return. You can't be both damaged goods to someone and not have an impact enough to be noticed to the same person. 1. Truth had been through the system before so WWE already knew that he had something to offer. 2. Other than Truth, who else has there been? Consequences Creed? I'm honestly trying to think of another "TNA guy" that got picked in recent years that hadn't already worked for WWE and I can't think of any. No wait, there was Lance Hoyt. That's about it. Now that WWE has shown that they are willing to pick up guys in the mold of Adrian Neville or Kassius Ohno based off their indie work, the lure of TNA is starting to fade. It's not like TNA can't help anybody's career but I think a lot of guys are starting to realize that they just might be better off grinding away in some of the bigger indie companies (ROH, PWG, DGUSA/EVOLVE, etc.) than getting picked up by TNA and not being used.
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Post by Error on Oct 27, 2013 15:04:56 GMT -5
Exactly. Guys like AJ, Roode, Storm, Joe, Daniels and countless others have had their contracts lapse, been out of the company because of that and WWE doesn't even send them feelers. WWE doesn't see anything in TNA as worth having (except Sting). They are all damaged goods thanks to the way they've been booked and WWE is not interested. That is why no great indie talent is looking at TNA anymore, it's not worth it. Oh, BS. Remember R-Truth? His last TNA angle was going Hollywood with bad trailer jokes and a team up with Pacman. They still got him in to return. You can't be both damaged goods to someone and not have an impact enough to be noticed to the same person. That was 4 or 5 years ago and he was a WWE wrestler before that. More than that, things change. Look at the track record since, all those I've mentioned have been free agents and WWE does not send them feelers to see if they are interested, let alone an actual offer. WWE sees TNA talent these days as damaged goods.
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Post by jason1980s on Oct 27, 2013 15:21:07 GMT -5
Truth was a WWF guy around 2001. Vince always seems to give guys a second chance.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Oct 27, 2013 15:22:22 GMT -5
Exactly. Guys like AJ, Roode, Storm, Joe, Daniels and countless others have had their contracts lapse, been out of the company because of that and WWE doesn't even send them feelers. WWE doesn't see anything in TNA as worth having (except Sting). They are all damaged goods thanks to the way they've been booked and WWE is not interested. That is why no great indie talent is looking at TNA anymore, it's not worth it. Oh, BS. Remember R-Truth? His last TNA angle was going Hollywood with bad trailer jokes and a team up with Pacman. They still got him in to return. You can't be both damaged goods to someone and not have an impact enough to be noticed to the same person. Yeah, it's not a matter of TNA guys being tainted, the WWE tends to base their hiring policy based on the current whims of management, so while they may want a guy one week, there's a very good chance they won't the next... But some people expect wrestlers they like to turn down all other offers and sit by the phone and wait for the WWE to decide they're exactly what they're looking for like they're playing a game of EWR. Truth was a WWF guy around 2001. Vince always seems to give guys a second chance. Tell that to the hundreds of former WWE and developmental employees who haven't gotten another shot from a company set up so that the vast majority of talent are disposable.
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