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Post by kingoftheindies on Oct 28, 2013 8:32:49 GMT -5
Another topic I may be alone on, but here is my assessment: Bischoff is not as good as he makes himself out to be and has convinced a lot of people he is. He had a few good ideas that he worked to absolute exhaustion-and a lot of bad ones in between. His biggest success obviously was the NWO, which was a unique and innovative angle for its time. But he wasn't using stars he had made himself for it-he was relying on stars that other people had made. The NWO would not have worked without Hogan, Hall, and Nash, and without Vince and to a lesser extent Verne Gagne none of these guys would have existed. Bischoff also did not have to budget WCW out of his own pocket-everything was on Ted Turner's tab. The smartest financial decision Bischoff made was when he used Disney studios to cut production costs. If he were as good with money as people claim he would not have fallen into guaranteed salaries or blown money on celebrities no one cared about and wrecking vehicles at a time when the budget was tight. At one time Bischoff had Austin, Foley, Jericho, Triple H, Benoit, and Guerrero all under contract and did not use them to their full capability. All of them went on to the WWF and became huge stars, a few of them becoming some of the highest grossing wrestlers of all time. Bischoff didn't even have to try to secure WCW's tv deals, they were already set for him because WCW was part of the Turner empire. Bischoff gets way more credit than he is really due in my eyes. Valid points for sure. At the same time, I feel that in some ways Bischoff isn't given credit where credit is do. I'm not saying this to defend Bischoff, but whatever the reason was, he is still the only person to ever successfully compete against Vince and that's shouldn't be dismissed simply because of money. I'm not saying Eric would save TNA and make them an instant competitor or anything like that. But I think in Eric's heart of hearts, he wants to do more than just book. He also was a big part of advertising WCW and getting them some mainstream publicity. I think if Eric really wanted to, he'd be able to get TNA some good advertising with all of his connections (something TNA struggles at). And I have to ask again, wasn't there a rumor going around a few years ago that Eric Bischoff wanted to buy TNA but he wanted the price to go down? Well there is always the hope that Eric learned from his mistakes (big stretch). I mean, while the nWo was his biggest idea creatively for WCW he did do a lot in his time that helped make WCW profitable. Yes he spent a boatload of Turner's money, but that wasn't why WCW ended up making a profit. I personally also have to wonder how Bischoff would run a promotion when he A)Has a budget and B)Doesn't have a bunch of corporate people and creative control (his fault) messing up his booking. Again, this is all based on whether or not you believe what Bischoff has said (I believe some things, others I don't). If TNA is sold, whoever buys it needs to have a clear vision. Agreed. Bischoff was the one who used Disney to film episodes of WCW TV when they were having trouble filling arenas. I think when given a budget he will adapt, but from 1994-98 he had unlimited resources and a guaranteed prime time slot on TNT so he went crazy. If he slowly starts building up TNA like he did WCW in 93, then there may be progress, especially if it is Bischoff's money on the line (not Turner's or Carter's). Also, I remember reading that had he successful purchased WCW that he would have built the promotion around RVD. That was in 2001, before RVD became hugely popular in the WWF. Not sure how true that is (haven't read his book or anything) but it suggests even at the end of his run he still recognized a star when he saw one. Not sure what his TNA ideas were, but it was likely a mixed bag either way.If Bischoff's money is on the line, would he make financially crippling decisions like going on the road when they are not ready to, etc? It's easy to do things like that when you won't get the blame, but if it becomes Bischoff's baby, then he will probably be more cautious. Bischoff had deals in place with RVD, Sabu (who was supposed to come to WCW in 2000 but Heyman threatened legal actions after the Mike Awesome fiasco), and Steve Corino. There may have been a few others.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Oct 28, 2013 8:44:05 GMT -5
This site will look weird with just "WWE" and "Wrest of Wrestling" forums. It would make me feel an odd nostalgia because it was like that for years
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Oct 28, 2013 8:51:42 GMT -5
Valid points for sure. At the same time, I feel that in some ways Bischoff isn't given credit where credit is do. I'm not saying this to defend Bischoff, but whatever the reason was, he is still the only person to ever successfully compete against Vince and that's shouldn't be dismissed simply because of money. I'm not saying Eric would save TNA and make them an instant competitor or anything like that. But I think in Eric's heart of hearts, he wants to do more than just book. He also was a big part of advertising WCW and getting them some mainstream publicity. I think if Eric really wanted to, he'd be able to get TNA some good advertising with all of his connections (something TNA struggles at). And I have to ask again, wasn't there a rumor going around a few years ago that Eric Bischoff wanted to buy TNA but he wanted the price to go down? Some of us made that case when Bischoff first joined, that there was some upside to his presence that he's not being given credit for, the fact is, we have all been proven wrong. He, like Hogan, provided none of the positives except a slight improvement in production, and all of the negatives people associate with him from rehashing the same old angles to starting fights with fans and other members of the TNA staff over the internet, and there is no reason to expect that to change if he can persuade others to back his attempts to buy the company, none. It's like the lessons he learned from WCW was 'throw money at a problem, get bigger names and success will come, even if you have to mortgage the future to get those names', there's no sign that he planned to grow the company by developing the midcard and offering something the McMahons won't (Which was what drew me and a lot of others to both WCW and TNA), in fact he stripped TNA of it's unique identity, depushed every aspect of the company that gave the audience things the WWE weren't currently offering and gave us ideas from 10 years ago in their place like invasion angles and biker factions. Bischoff is garbage at advertising his product, if you listen to guys like Scott Hall, WCW didn't even run house shows at the start of the NWO angle for crying out loud, even at it's peak he was running considerably fewer shows than the WWE, had next to no presence in the North of America, let alone Canada and we won't even get started on things like his repeated failure to capitalise on anyone or anything that wasn't clad in an NWO shirt.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Oct 28, 2013 9:21:42 GMT -5
Unless Bischoff finds a new money mark to leech money off of, he is not buying TNA. The last big ideas Bischoff had since WCW went under was Celebrity Wrestling and finding shows for Scott Baio. Yeah, he ran WCW during its successful times but he also ran that sumbitch into the iceberg. He still is practicing the same bad habits just on a much lower scale. Trusting him to save TNA is like making Lindsey Lohan the owner of a rehab clinic. Total Non-Stop Scott Baio BILLIONS OF DOLLARS Scott Baio as TNA World Champion. Watch the money flow.
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Post by BatPunk on Oct 28, 2013 9:27:51 GMT -5
So, Stephanie has just sold a heap of her WWE Stocks......
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BigJerichool222
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
THE BIG DOG!
#NotInMySalad
Posts: 17,424
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Post by BigJerichool222 on Oct 28, 2013 9:32:41 GMT -5
So, Stephanie has just sold a heap of her WWE Stocks...... Wasn't that just to buy/build a house or something? Unless she just sold MORE of them.
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Post by Straight Edge Scrotum on Oct 28, 2013 9:35:18 GMT -5
Just let Vince McMahon buy the whole thing...
- Gut the show for everything useful
- Cultivate the tape library into some decent DVDs and when that material eventually dries up in a couple years, put out another "Rise & Fall" DVD and file the rest away into a vault somewhere
- Sign some of the bigger names and spend a year humbling/jobbing them out accordingly, then cut them loose
- Offer Hogan/Sting a small payday to bring them back for another nostalgia kick or to show face at a couple Mania's
- Sign several big names to keep and mix into the midcard somewhere
- Everyone else gets scattered to the wind
- Say amen and order lunch
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Post by BatPunk on Oct 28, 2013 9:38:56 GMT -5
So, Stephanie has just sold a heap of her WWE Stocks...... Wasn't that just to buy/build a house or something? Unless she just sold MORE of them. I could be wrong, but I'm sure I read quite recently that she sold more, but it wasn't a big deal by then as the story of her building a house was already out. But it could all be a ruse to throw everyone off the scent and the McMahons heard on the grapevine that TNA was going to be for sale pretty soon and getting prepared to buy. Why didn't Triple H sell any of his stocks for this 'house''? So much speculation
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Oct 28, 2013 10:00:14 GMT -5
honestly wouldn't shock me. Bischoff for all his faults, probably wouldn't put up with most of the crap Dixie did. Gotta disagree there. This is the guy that gave creative control in WCW to Hogan, this is the guy who let the wrestlers run the show in WCW, didn't really care about anything beyond the main event, and will let Hogan do what he wants. That's not bringing up TNA giving in to he and Hogan's requests. Bischoff will allow that crap to happen. at the same time, a lot of that was because at the end of the day he wasn't spending his own money. if he continues to run a company like that with his own cash he deserves whatever happens.
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SOR
Unicron
Posts: 2,611
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Post by SOR on Oct 28, 2013 10:38:00 GMT -5
Another topic I may be alone on, but here is my assessment: Bischoff is not as good as he makes himself out to be and has convinced a lot of people he is. He had a few good ideas that he worked to absolute exhaustion-and a lot of bad ones in between. His biggest success obviously was the NWO, which was a unique and innovative angle for its time. But he wasn't using stars he had made himself for it-he was relying on stars that other people had made. The NWO would not have worked without Hogan, Hall, and Nash, and without Vince and to a lesser extent Verne Gagne none of these guys would have existed. Bischoff also did not have to budget WCW out of his own pocket-everything was on Ted Turner's tab. The smartest financial decision Bischoff made was when he used Disney studios to cut production costs. If he were as good with money as people claim he would not have fallen into guaranteed salaries or blown money on celebrities no one cared about and wrecking vehicles at a time when the budget was tight. At one time Bischoff had Austin, Foley, Jericho, Triple H, Benoit, and Guerrero all under contract and did not use them to their full capability. All of them went on to the WWF and became huge stars, a few of them becoming some of the highest grossing wrestlers of all time. Bischoff didn't even have to try to secure WCW's tv deals, they were already set for him because WCW was part of the Turner empire. Bischoff gets way more credit than he is really due in my eyes. It's funny you mention that guys like Austin, Foley, Jericho, Triple H, Benoit, Guerrero etc weren't used to their full capability. Although that's true WWE is just as guilty as misusing a lot of talents. Hell, Look at Booker T. Top babyface in WCW then became Shane McMahons bitch. DDP? Ruined. In terms of actual talents both Kevin Nash and Scott Hall went to WCW becoming bigger stars as did Scott Steiner and a lot of others. As for your list of who became HUGE stars. I'll give you Austin, Foley and Triple H. The rest are just stars within the wrestling communities around the world. Benoit struggled to get out of the midcard a lot of the time...
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Celgress
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Superior One
Posts: 19,009
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Post by Celgress on Oct 28, 2013 10:53:49 GMT -5
Imho If Viacom buys TNA, and truly invests in the product, the landscape of North American Pro Wrestling could change (for the better) forever.
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Celgress
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Superior One
Posts: 19,009
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Post by Celgress on Oct 28, 2013 11:05:05 GMT -5
Oh and imho the first thing the new owner(s) should do is drop "TNA" forever, no further mention of the letters going forward nothing, and just use the name Impact Wrestling
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Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
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Perpetually Constipated
Posts: 39,372
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Post by Push R Truth on Oct 28, 2013 11:32:07 GMT -5
Oh and imho the first thing the new owner(s) should do is drop "TNA" forever, no further mention of the letters going forward nothing, and just use the name Impact Wrestling Careful what you wish for. You could get: Amazing Super Stars All Night American Lucha Professional Enlightened Ninja International Superstars
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Post by crowwreak was WRONG on Oct 28, 2013 11:33:58 GMT -5
Wasn't that just to buy/build a house or something? Unless she just sold MORE of them. I could be wrong, but I'm sure I read quite recently that she sold more, but it wasn't a big deal by then as the story of her building a house was already out. But it could all be a ruse to throw everyone off the scent and the McMahons heard on the grapevine that TNA was going to be for sale pretty soon and getting prepared to buy. Why didn't Triple H sell any of his stocks for this 'house''? So much speculation H also has a private plane company he could have sold stocks for.
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Turd Ferguson
Hank Scorpio
John Cena: Colossal Douche
Posts: 7,402
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Post by Turd Ferguson on Oct 28, 2013 11:43:42 GMT -5
Sheldon Cooper vs. AJ Styles for the TNA Title? The GAY COMMUNITY?!!?!! Exploooodes
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Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
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Post by Sephiroth on Oct 28, 2013 11:48:01 GMT -5
Some other thoughts of mine: TNA should have started going on the road in 08-2010. Nothing too ambitious, just a handful of house shows now and then. They were not ready to move tv and PPV taping out of the Impact Zone, but a limited number of house shows at least would have increased their ticket sales and helped get their crew adjusted to some of the rigors of travel. TNA should have tried to make more out of the relationships they have had. Has anyone heard the Impact Zone mentioned on any commercials for the Universal park in Florida? Do TNA stars ever appear on any other Viacom productions? TNA never promote itself aggressively enough. Have they ever acknowledged when one of their wrestlers does an interview of public appearance? Mick Foley was working for them when he appeared on The Daily Show-they should have used that for all it was worth. That is how you expand your audience and draw in advertising-where he REAL money for production costs comes from.
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Crimson
Hank Scorpio
Thank you DWade
Posts: 6,511
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Post by Crimson on Oct 28, 2013 12:01:20 GMT -5
Invasion 2.0?
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Oct 28, 2013 12:07:19 GMT -5
Wasn't that just to buy/build a house or something? Unless she just sold MORE of them. I could be wrong, but I'm sure I read quite recently that she sold more, but it wasn't a big deal by then as the story of her building a house was already out. But it could all be a ruse to throw everyone off the scent and the McMahons heard on the grapevine that TNA was going to be for sale pretty soon and getting prepared to buy. Why didn't Triple H sell any of his stocks for this 'house''? So much speculation If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say because as an individual, he owns about as much of the WWE as Jeff Jarrett. When the WWE went public, he was not in an official relationship as Steph, let alone married to her, so while most of the talent got shares (including Jarrett), he'll have nowhere near as many as Stephanie unless he pumped a lot of his own money into WWE stock, nevermind enough to buy a multimillion dollar house... Heck, if he'd bought a lot of shares at the initial share price, he'd have lost a fair amount of his money during his reign of terror.
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Post by Red Impact on Oct 28, 2013 12:38:44 GMT -5
I could be wrong, but I'm sure I read quite recently that she sold more, but it wasn't a big deal by then as the story of her building a house was already out. But it could all be a ruse to throw everyone off the scent and the McMahons heard on the grapevine that TNA was going to be for sale pretty soon and getting prepared to buy. Why didn't Triple H sell any of his stocks for this 'house''? So much speculation If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say because as an individual, he owns about as much of the WWE as Jeff Jarrett. When the WWE went public, he was not in an official relationship as Steph, let alone married to her, so while most of the talent got shares (including Jarrett), he'll have nowhere near as many as Stephanie unless he pumped a lot of his own money into WWE stock, nevermind enough to buy a multimillion dollar house... Heck, if he'd bought a lot of shares at the initial share price, he'd have lost a fair amount of his money during his reign of terror. Maybe he shorted the stock then booked the angle to make millions? HHH - Stock Market Assassin
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vivix
ALF
Strike Hard Strike Fast
Posts: 1,077
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Post by vivix on Oct 28, 2013 13:45:55 GMT -5
Some other thoughts of mine: TNA should have started going on the road in 08-2010. Nothing too ambitious, just a handful of house shows now and then. They were not ready to move tv and PPV taping out of the Impact Zone, but a limited number of house shows at least would have increased their ticket sales and helped get their crew adjusted to some of the rigors of travel. TNA should have tried to make more out of the relationships they have had. Has anyone heard the Impact Zone mentioned on any commercials for the Universal park in Florida? Do TNA stars ever appear on any other Viacom productions? TNA never promote itself aggressively enough. Have they ever acknowledged when one of their wrestlers does an interview of public appearance? Mick Foley was working for them when he appeared on The Daily Show-they should have used that for all it was worth. That is how you expand your audience and draw in advertising-where he REAL money for production costs comes from. They were doing house since back in 06/07, they just never promoted them.
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