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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Nov 8, 2013 18:20:53 GMT -5
Does Lords of Pain have a paid subscription site??? I want to be able to get insightful news like this even faster so that I can be reassured that I'm a misunderstood, special snowflake with better taste in pro wrestlers than those philistines who run WWE!
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chac
ALF
O.D.H.G.A.B.F.E
Posts: 1,076
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Post by chac on Nov 8, 2013 18:21:47 GMT -5
Who gets the blame when Survivor series shits the bed?
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Nov 8, 2013 18:25:09 GMT -5
Who gets the blame when Survivor series shits the bed? Not the McMahons, that's for sure. It's never their fault!
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Post by Loser troll. Please ban me on Nov 8, 2013 18:28:49 GMT -5
good call, It not like the recent trend of same ol same ol has had any effect. Blame that vanilla midget bryan Wanna see my summer house on fire island?
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Post by Ape Boy on Nov 8, 2013 19:14:09 GMT -5
He has some charisma. I never denied that. What I denied is that he has mountains of charisma; the amount of charisma it takes for a guy of his size to ever become a massive long-term star. Neither did Steamboat, which is why, bar his brief feud with Flair in the late '80s, he was never anything more than an I.C./U.S. title guy. Both WWE and WCW knew what they had in Steamboat: A great wrestler who wasn't charismatic enough to be a top draw. I see Daniel Bryan the same way, and after looking at buy rates and using plain common sense, I'm guessing WWE does, too. So, you're defining "charisma" as "bookers choose to push you for a long time?" And also saying that charisma is what CAUSES the bookers to push someone for a long time? The question has filed a restraining order to get you to stop begging it. No, I'm not defining charisma as "bookers choose to push you for a long time." That's your poor reading comprehension speaking, not me. What I'm saying is that WWE is, was, and always will be about making money, and the way they do that is by pushing charismatic, larger-than-life figures to the top of the card. If they feel you have the charisma to be a top-draw, they'll make it happen. Got it? Pushes don't determine charisma level, charisma level determines pushes (usually). They've given Bryan the chance, and quite frankly, he's bombed. I don't blame him entirely; WWE's writing is pretty bad. With that said, Bryan's a small guy with some charisma, but nowhere near top-star level. He's an IWC favorite who doesn't have mainstream appeal. He has an annoying catchphrase that the fans love to chant, probably out of boredom, but he's not bringing in droves of fans to PPV buys. Barring some incredible turn of events, he will never be anything more than an upper-midcarder who can occasionally main event. Basically, to the 2010's what Chris Benoit was to the 2000's. Honestly, given how many guys similar to Bryan didn't achieve anywhere near his level of success, he should be pretty happy. He's exceeded his vanilla midget expectations.
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MrBRulzOK
Wade Wilson
Mr No-Pants Heathen
Something Witty Here.
Posts: 26,719
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Post by MrBRulzOK on Nov 8, 2013 19:36:55 GMT -5
If true, someone should mail Vince that list of the top 15 draws in wrestling history that was compiled a few years back. And how like 3 tall guys were on it. And that's it. I fear for the person crazy enough to deliver that to him. He'd make his treatment of JR look like a spa treatment compared to what they would likely get.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Nov 8, 2013 20:41:44 GMT -5
They've given Bryan the chance, and quite frankly, he's bombed. I don't blame him entirely; WWE's writing is pretty bad. With that said, Bryan's a small guy with some charisma, but nowhere near top-star level. He's an IWC favorite who doesn't have mainstream appeal. He has an annoying catchphrase that the fans love to chant, probably out of boredom, but he's not bringing in droves of fans to PPV buys. So much wrong with this post. So much. First, you cannot quantify why people chant something. That's absurd. That'd be the equivalent of someone saying that people like John Cena only because they're too brainwashed to know better. Silly and unprovable. That said, NO ONE from WWE's active roster is consistent PPV draw. Not one is bringing in droves. And certainly not any of the guys mentioned in the news-bit. So acting like Bryan's dragging numbers down, when they were only up because of novelty acts destined to burn out eventually like Lesnar or Rock, is also absurd. And if Bryan bombed, why isn't it looked at as Orton bombing as well? (A more consistent ratings and buyrate failure). Or Cena? Or even HHH as the primary heel? How can one guy, Bryan, be blamed solely when he just started getting a push? That's like owning a business and by lunch time saying, "well, this day is a bust". The day isn't over yet. Not enough time has passed to properly gauge Bryan's worth or lack of it. Steve Austin to this day holds the dubious record of lowest quarter hour in WWE RAW history. But history taught us that this bump was only transient. Hindsight showed that he rose above. Why isn't Bryan given the same courtesy? Give the dude at least 'til Mania, and strap the same rocket on him that Cena and Batista got. They didn't get f***ed over with bad, inconsistent booking in their respective rise. They were positioned dominantly. You cannot manufacture a "larger than life" star. This is always Vince's (stupid) fallback when he perceives business is in the shitter. And almost every time, the lummox he ends up putting the strap on bombs worse than the "small guy" he saw as the issue in the first place. See Diesel in 1995 for the perfect example. You cannot predict who will become a mainstream star. Or if it can ever really happen again without a complete product overhaul that birthed the last two booms. But what we do know is, history has taught us that you never know who'll be "the guy". On almost every occasion, its been an accident. The fans in Minnesota rallied behind a villainous Hulk Hogan which led to the formation of Hulkamania in '82. Steve Austin was seen as a midcard act that no one could or did predict would become history's top box-office wrestling draw. Even John Cena was about be released in winter of 2002 for "failing to connect" before a random Halloween party skit breathed life into a character who was, at that time, being used to put over BILLY KIDMAN. There is no such thing as creating a larger than life star. It just happens. You cannot control or manufacture it. WWE has never been able to. And they never will.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Nov 8, 2013 20:43:26 GMT -5
Come on, give Big Daddy Cool another run with the strap!
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Crimson
Hank Scorpio
Thank you DWade
Posts: 6,511
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Post by Crimson on Nov 8, 2013 21:12:05 GMT -5
I know......this just seems tailor made to hit all the IWC fan weak spots. heh All it needs is newz on John Cena returning to the main feud and you could kindle an IWC fire right there and then. Or reports of Orton dickery backstage getting swept under the rug.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Nov 8, 2013 22:07:03 GMT -5
No, I'm not defining charisma as "bookers choose to push you for a long time." That's your poor reading comprehension speaking, not me. What I'm saying is that WWE is, was, and always will be about making money, and the way they do that is by pushing charismatic, larger-than-life figures to the top of the card. If they feel you have the charisma to be a top-draw, they'll make it happen. Got it? Pushes don't determine charisma level, charisma level determines pushes (usually). They've given Bryan the chance, and quite frankly, he's bombed. I don't blame him entirely; WWE's writing is pretty bad. With that said, Bryan's a small guy with some charisma, but nowhere near top-star level. Oh, hm. Okay, bear with me, my poor reading comprehension speaking is acting up. So... it's not that charisma and success are the same. It's that Vince McMahon possesses a Magic Charisma Detection Machine that automatically can tell who has it in them to be a Top Star, and the past few months I guess it was malfunctioning because they WERE pushing Bryan? And his failure proves that the Magic Charisma Detection Machine was actually working all along?? ...nnnope, giving WWE officials magical powers didn't take away the fact that you're making a circular argument. If you succeed, then it's because you have charisma, and the way you tell if someone has charisma, you look and see if they're a success. The other thing you do, and this is what's really outing you as just doing some knee-jerk anti-IWC trolling, is you move the goalposts for Bryan so far that there's no way he could succeed, using deliberately ambiguous terms like "top star" and, yes, "charisma." As others have pointed out, no one currently employed can bring in awesome numbers, and there is a difference between "bombing" and not improving things. (Also seriously dudes can we all get together and make a pledge never to write "The WWE is all about making money!" ever again on these forums because holy crap is it never a useful thing to say.)
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Ryushinku
King Koopa
Posts: 12,199
Member is Online
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Post by Ryushinku on Nov 9, 2013 6:30:41 GMT -5
Mmm, mmm! Sweet, delicious smark bait. Tastes like candy!
I particularly love the threat of a Great Khali push. That's a nice touch. Not putting one of Vince, Hunter or Stepahnie's names on this with a disparaging quote was a missed opportunity though.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Nov 9, 2013 13:43:13 GMT -5
(Also seriously dudes can we all get together and make a pledge never to write "The WWE is all about making money!" ever again on these forums because holy crap is it never a useful thing to say.) Some real talk right here. It's the wrestling BUSINESS. Guess what a business does?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2013 14:04:58 GMT -5
Well if it's true at least i don't have to watch Benoit Jr. as champion
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Post by Kayfabe FAN don't want none on Nov 9, 2013 14:10:59 GMT -5
Funny how vaniila midget's run in and saving another vanilla midget was the show's highest peak last week. While Big Show and Trips lost viewers
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Sparkybob
King Koopa
I have a status?
Posts: 11,003
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Post by Sparkybob on Nov 9, 2013 14:18:00 GMT -5
Funny how vaniila midget's run in and saving another vanilla midget was the show's highest peak last week. While Big Show and Trips lost viewers I'm not meaning to attack you or anything, I'm just saying this kinda of thinking is odd to me. When D-bryan and Punk do a good week in TV ratings, it's show they are draws, but a bad week of ratings means it wasn't their fault. Not attacking you or anything just I find that logic odd.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Nov 9, 2013 14:22:05 GMT -5
It strikes me less as smark bait and more grounded in what is actually occuring in the WWE product. you do notice who Luke Harper is feuding with right? And honestly I don't see the Wyatts going over those guys
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Nov 9, 2013 14:28:52 GMT -5
It strikes me less as smark bait and more grounded in what is actually occuring in the WWE product. you do notice who Luke Harper is feuding with right? And honestly I don't see the Wyatts going over those guys Bray Wyatt himself could easily be a star, but I don't see what WWE is trying to accomplish with Harper and Rowan. WWE seems to be trying to present all three of them as top level threats despite the fact that Wyatt is the obvious leader of the group. Harper and Rowan would be a great asset to the tag division, but they aren't even going to be a part of it (even if they got the titles) because they're kind of being TOO protected.
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Post by Kayfabe FAN don't want none on Nov 9, 2013 15:02:38 GMT -5
Funny how vaniila midget's run in and saving another vanilla midget was the show's highest peak last week. While Big Show and Trips lost viewers I'm not meaning to attack you or anything, I'm just saying this kinda of thinking is odd to me. When D-bryan and Punk do a good week in TV ratings, it's show they are draws, but a bad week of ratings means it wasn't their fault. Not attacking you or anything just I find that logic odd. I understand why you find that odd. Heck, i do too. I made my post because i really REALLY dislike this Show/Triple H bs taking over the what should still be the Bryan/Orton angle. And it pisses me off how WWE themselves use the logic you mentioned. Well, the opposite of it. Like Bryan getting blamed for SummerSlam (what about the face of the company? Or Lesnar?) same thing with Punk when he was a face last year. whenever a show gets low buyrate or ratings he gets the blame. How many PPVs or Raws did babyface Punk main event other than TLC '11 (which did pretty good)? None. Yet he's the one to blame. Same for Miz getting blamed for SS '11 buyrates when ROCK AND CENA were the main focus. I'm not saying they shouldn't be blamed but throwing the whole blame on them instead of the bigger names. I find that frustrating.
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Sparkybob
King Koopa
I have a status?
Posts: 11,003
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Post by Sparkybob on Nov 9, 2013 15:08:33 GMT -5
I'm not meaning to attack you or anything, I'm just saying this kinda of thinking is odd to me. When D-bryan and Punk do a good week in TV ratings, it's show they are draws, but a bad week of ratings means it wasn't their fault. Not attacking you or anything just I find that logic odd. I understand why you find that odd. Heck, i do too. I made my post because i really REALLY dislike this Show/Triple H bs taking over the what should still be the Bryan/Orton angle. And it pisses me off how WWE themselves use the logic you mentioned. Well, the opposite of it. Like Bryan getting blamed for SummerSlam (what about the face of the company? Or Lesnar?) same thing with Punk when he was a face last year. whenever a show gets low buyrate or ratings he gets the blame. How many PPVs or Raws did babyface Punk main event other than TLC '11 (which did pretty good)? None. Yet he's the one to blame. Same for Miz getting blamed for SS '11 buyrates when ROCK AND CENA were the main focus. I'm not saying they shouldn't be blamed but throwing the whole blame on them instead of the bigger names. I find that frustrating. I agree but I just wonder if let's say Summerslam drew something ridiculous like 600,000 buys, I think it's safe to assume that the WWE will give credit to Bryan for that amazing buy-rates. So in a sense the WWE is putting most of the responsibility on Bryan/Punk to draw for the PPV. If they do bad, they get part of the blame, if the buy-rates are amazing, then they get the credit. I like that version better than the logic some user here use. Some only use ratings/buy-rates when it supports their views and calling it useless when it doesn't fit their narrative they want to present.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2013 1:18:36 GMT -5
Let's face it folks, one thing the Orton/Bryan feud did accomplish. People REALLY want that Bryan WWE title run now.
I'm not going to get into whether all the nonsense we've seen is a good idea or not, but today, that's where we're at.
If this Punk/Bryan vs Wyatts stuff clears and they opt to give Main Event WWE title contender Bryan another go come Rumble/mania time, the crowd will definitely be down for it and it should draw.
We've seen a lot of marking on this board in the Bryan/Orton feud. I don't mean "I like what I'm seeing" marking. I mean the literal typical mark responses of a wrestling fan when it comes to Bryan. A lot of people want it. You know what's up, you still want it. We're being worked and that's good. Don't you want to be worked?
If mania comes and goes and it hasn't happened, it doesn't mean they've bailed on Bryan either. Bryan's going to be around for a pretty long time barring ugly injury. He's not going to be "random midcard face" a year from now. It'll be more along the lines of the CM Punk route, which also had ups and downs.
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