BigBadZ
Grimlock
The Rumors Are All True
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Post by BigBadZ on Nov 11, 2013 23:41:27 GMT -5
We need to start testing the gay guys to make sure that they're seriously gay enough. And are we sure Darren Young really counts as gay? I mean, I'm not gay, but I know that gay people don't identify with or feel represented by D-Young if he's always the top. First, D-Young must be tested to see if he is serious. He can be gay but we need to make sure he is serious gay. Will DNA show us this information? |
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Post by Citizen Grimm on Nov 11, 2013 23:43:40 GMT -5
To be fair to the WWE, in the last 10 years or so, is there a black wrestler (outside of the Rock) that deserved to be WWE Champion. The only two that really come to my mind are Mark Henry and Booker T. MVP should have definitely gotten it. See, I can't agree with that. MVP was, to me, World Title at best. Then again, it could just be that I thought he was incredibly overrated at the time. I really would've liked to see Shelton Benjamin get a chance to challenge for it once. He'd never be able to hold it since he can't cut a promo to save his life, but I think he would've put on a great match with just about anybody on the roster. |
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Toates Madhackrviper
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Post by Toates Madhackrviper on Nov 11, 2013 23:47:38 GMT -5
Personally I think Kofi is worthy and should have already been champion his feud with Randy Orton should have lead to a main event run. Maybe not a popular opinion but one I strongly believe in.
Shelton and MVP are also good examples. Again maybe you don't see that many black wrestlers as being "worthy" but maybe thats because they haven't been treated as "worthy" by the company. Presentation counts SO much in wrestling. A racist booker, even a subtly casually racist booker who doesn't actively hate any particular race but just is deep in the socialized racism that is our society is likely to not represent a black wrestler as well as a white one. Thats simple sociology.
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Sparkybob
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Post by Sparkybob on Nov 11, 2013 23:48:54 GMT -5
Representation in the media is a deeply important issue to me. The fact that children who watch television are statistically more likely to be depressed unless they are white boys after watching a lot of television is important to me. Media aimed at young children representing a diverse group of heroes for the diverse young people that are watching is important to me. The Rock counts. I retract that part of my argument. I still don't think he's "enough". Not for me. I'm not going to engage in this element of the discussion any further as it distracts so much from what I'm trying to say and I really regret saying it. I don't see how that is a mostly private businesses responsibility really. Vince and co. are always looking to make money and if they felt a particular African American wrestler can make them a lot of money, they will push them. Ex. Bobby. If Vince doesn't feel a wrestler is good enough to be WWE champ then they aren't. I felt Christian has all the tools to be WWE champ, just Vince never saw it. It happens no matter the race/ethnicity. Plus it will be a very hard case to prove that Vince is intentionally not booking black WWE champs when we clearly see Vince has supported African American male wrestler in the past with big pushes. Ex. All of Henry's countless pushes, Bobby, R-Truth, Biggie now. It's just an issue of making money to Vince. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2013 23:51:27 GMT -5
We need to start testing the gay guys to make sure that they're seriously gay enough. And are we sure Darren Young really counts as gay? I mean, I'm not gay, but I know that gay people don't identify with or feel represented by D-Young if he's always the top. Yeah he hasn't represented his gayness on WWE television so I wouldn't say he's the first active openly gay wrestler on WWE TV. Plus there might of been a time when he had a girlfriend in highschool because he might of been paranoid that his peers may suspect he is gay if he didn't have one. |
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Post by Long A, Short A on Nov 11, 2013 23:54:54 GMT -5
May I please call bullshit on the Rock c***s line of thinking because it sounds like some tired old one drop crap. We might as well call long haired dudes diva, if we're going to do all this crazy stretching.
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Toates Madhackrviper
King Koopa
Is owed an Admin life-debt.
This avatar is so far out of date I might as well stick with it forever now.
Posts: 10,737
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Post by Toates Madhackrviper on Nov 11, 2013 23:56:12 GMT -5
And are we sure Darren Young really counts as gay? I mean, I'm not gay, but I know that gay people don't identify with or feel represented by D-Young if he's always the top. Yeah he hasn't represented his gayness on WWE television so I wouldn't say he's the first active openly gay wrestler on WWE TV. Plus there might of been a time when he had a girlfriend in highschool because he might of been paranoid that his peers may suspect he is gay if he didn't have one. This whole comment chain is disrespectful and at one point (the "bottom" joke, UGH) actually straight up offensive. Move on, I've addressed the issue you're "satirizing" already, multiple times. You are just being ridiculous and distracting from the issue because it makes you uncomfortable. Though I will say that personally I do believe that Darren Young acknowledging his sexual orientation on screen, not making a gimmick, storyline, or character out of it, just acknowledging and letting it be known for the sake of representation, would be a big step in the right direction. |
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Post by Instant Classic on Nov 11, 2013 23:57:25 GMT -5
I made a thread like this and people weren't to happy. Forget them I agree with you. Big E for first black champ!
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mizerable
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You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
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Post by mizerable on Nov 12, 2013 0:00:20 GMT -5
Representation in the media is a deeply important issue to me. The fact that children who watch television are statistically more likely to be depressed unless they are white boys after watching a lot of television is important to me. Media aimed at young children representing a diverse group of heroes for the diverse young people that are watching is important to me. You may have good intentions. But just because someone might be a certain race, or have ancestry or something of that nature, it's still important that they represent who they are, not what others perceive them as. I know you don't want to go back to Rock, but let's just say that he was 100% African American...and perhaps, his father the Hall of Famer Rocky Johnson got remarried when he was an infant to Ata. Ata became Rock's step mother, but he spent his entire childhood around the Samoans. They became his brothers, not by blood...but by bonds. That is who he is. He was never what others would "expect". No matter what someone's race is, I would never expect them to "play that up". It's important that we have that kind of diversity in wrestling, and in a lot of ways, we do. No, we don't have a lot of people representing us as champion, but in a lot of ways, there haven't been a lot of great examples. I could name lot of people I would have loved to see with the title, but WWE saw a hindrance in them in one way or another, something of which I highly doubt was based on race. But, the last thing that I would ever expect of any professional would want would be given an opportunity MOSTLY based on race, religion, gender, orientation or creed. No hard working person ever wants a free pass. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2013 0:04:29 GMT -5
Yeah he hasn't represented his gayness on WWE television so I wouldn't say he's the first active openly gay wrestler on WWE TV. Plus there might of been a time when he had a girlfriend in highschool because he might of been paranoid that his peers may suspect he is gay if he didn't have one. This whole comment chain is disrespectful and at one point (the "bottom" joke, UGH) actually straight up offensive. Move on, I've addressed the issue you're "satirizing" already, multiple times. You are just being ridiculous and distracting from the issue because it makes you uncomfortable. Though I will say that personally I do believe that Darren Young acknowledging his sexual orientation on screen, not making a gimmick, storyline, or character out of it, just acknowledging and letting it be known for the sake of representation, would be a big step in the right direction. You're right it makes me uncomfortable. Calling a guy with a black father not a real black man or not representing his black culture as much of his Samoan culture doesn't make him full black. Plus you're practically implying I wouldn't be comfortable with a black champion or I'm uncomfortable with admitting there hasn't been a black WWE Champion other then The Rock which really offends me. I never said that once in this thread. |
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Nov 12, 2013 0:04:45 GMT -5
Yeah he hasn't represented his gayness on WWE television so I wouldn't say he's the first active openly gay wrestler on WWE TV. Plus there might of been a time when he had a girlfriend in highschool because he might of been paranoid that his peers may suspect he is gay if he didn't have one. This whole comment chain is disrespectful and at one point (the "bottom" joke, UGH) actually straight up offensive. Move on, I've addressed the issue you're "satirizing" already, multiple times. You are just being ridiculous and distracting from the issue because it makes you uncomfortable. What, the issue that WWE is run by a bunch of racist, xenophobic old carnies and aimed at the lowest common denominator of racist, xenophobic middle Americans? Dude, I already know that. We all already know that. We certainly are being ridiculous. I can't think of a rational response to this thread other than ridicule. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2013 0:06:27 GMT -5
Yeah he hasn't represented his gayness on WWE television so I wouldn't say he's the first active openly gay wrestler on WWE TV. Plus there might of been a time when he had a girlfriend in highschool because he might of been paranoid that his peers may suspect he is gay if he didn't have one. This whole comment chain is disrespectful and at one point (the "bottom" joke, UGH) actually straight up offensive. Move on, I've addressed the issue you're "satirizing" already, multiple times. You are just being ridiculous and distracting from the issue because it makes you uncomfortable. Though I will say that personally I do believe that Darren Young acknowledging his sexual orientation on screen, not making a gimmick, storyline, or character out of it, just acknowledging and letting it be known for the sake of representation, would be a big step in the right direction. Also I do agree that it's the right step if Darren Youngs sexuality is acknowledged on WWE television in some form. |
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Nov 12, 2013 0:07:30 GMT -5
But, the last thing that I would ever expect of any professional would want would be given an opportunity MOSTLY based on race, religion, gender, orientation or creed. No hard working person ever wants a free pass. I think that was the point I was trying to make, but couldn't quite get the wording right for (I apologise if I had said something offensive there, since that was clearly not my intention). |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2013 0:11:31 GMT -5
But, the last thing that I would ever expect of any professional would want would be given an opportunity MOSTLY based on race, religion, gender, orientation or creed. No hard working person ever wants a free pass. I think that was the point I was trying to make, but couldn't quite get the wording right for (I apologise if I had said something offensive there, since that was clearly not my intention). Otherwise hardworking people get free passes all the time though. You don't have to know you get them. You don't even have to want them. You get them whether you want them or not. |
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Sparkybob
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Post by Sparkybob on Nov 12, 2013 0:14:48 GMT -5
Oh BTW the OP was incorrect when he mention no WWE title was ever defended by an African American.  There you go. Orlando Jordan defended the WWE title and retain successfully. There Vince isn't racist at all. |
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Toates Madhackrviper
King Koopa
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This avatar is so far out of date I might as well stick with it forever now.
Posts: 10,737
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Post by Toates Madhackrviper on Nov 12, 2013 0:15:14 GMT -5
This whole comment chain is disrespectful and at one point (the "bottom" joke, UGH) actually straight up offensive. Move on, I've addressed the issue you're "satirizing" already, multiple times. You are just being ridiculous and distracting from the issue because it makes you uncomfortable. What, the issue that WWE is run by a bunch of racist, xenophobic old carnies and aimed at the lowest common denominator of racist, xenophobic middle Americans? Dude, I already know that. We all already know that. We certainly are being ridiculous. I can't think of a rational response to this thread other than ridicule. Quite frankly I can understand that response. Its just not mine. I discuss social issues because I'm solution oriented and don't want to just avoid every talking about them. That just not how I respond to things like this, so it upsets me when I see people joking about a thing I find gravely serious, because it distracts for the issue. I hope that helps you relate to where I'm coming from, I now relate to where you are coming from with your decision to joke about it. This whole comment chain is disrespectful and at one point (the "bottom" joke, UGH) actually straight up offensive. Move on, I've addressed the issue you're "satirizing" already, multiple times. You are just being ridiculous and distracting from the issue because it makes you uncomfortable. Though I will say that personally I do believe that Darren Young acknowledging his sexual orientation on screen, not making a gimmick, storyline, or character out of it, just acknowledging and letting it be known for the sake of representation, would be a big step in the right direction. You're right it makes me uncomfortable. Calling a guy with a black father not a real black man or not representing his black culture as much of his Samoan culture doesn't make him full black. Plus you're practically implying I wouldn't be comfortable with a black champion or I'm uncomfortable with admitting there hasn't been a black WWE Champion other then The Rock which really offends me. I never said that once in this thread. I really didn't mean that The Rock doesn't count as a "black man". What I was trying to say was that he might not fully count as a represnative hero for black youth in America because he doesn't seem to publicly identify as a black man in the media. I also admitted that as a white person I can't really speak for black youth on this and that they may indeed feel pride and representation in the The Rock and I'm happy if they do because then he's serving to represent two communities. Finally I meant that they and that even if he does "count" representation wise that to me its not quite "enough". One half black champion isn't enough. One FULL black champion that prides himself of being the firs black champion publicly and serves as a great hero to black youth wouldn't be enough. I'm not one to settle when it comes to this issue. I've said that a number of times in this thread, but maybe I wasn't clear. This should hopefully serve as a true final word on that issue. I apologize for the last part though. I made assumptions because I was upset to see a topic somewhat close to my heart be treated lightly. I take that part back. I react too quickly sometimes. That was 100% my bad. |
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Post by Error on Nov 12, 2013 0:15:57 GMT -5
Ignoring fact while attacking people who don't agree with your line of thinking. Yeah, we gone as far as I think we need to with this one.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Nov 12, 2013 0:17:19 GMT -5
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