Chainsaw
T
A very BAD man.
It is what it is
Posts: 90,480
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Post by Chainsaw on Nov 12, 2013 8:29:30 GMT -5
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4real
Wade Wilson
Posts: 28,717
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Post by 4real on Nov 12, 2013 8:55:51 GMT -5
It was Swagger that got pinned so I wasn't too bothered. He's lost so much it's lost all meaning now.
Though considering ADR attacked Cena after the match how hard would it have been to book him to interfere and cost Cena the match? Or have him break up the STF on Swagger and cause a DQ? Not very I don't think.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Nov 12, 2013 9:24:53 GMT -5
It's not a Cena thing. It's a WWE main eventer thing. WWE likes to break out the lazy idiot rolodex of shitty booking builds. It went past contract signing, reluctant partners, property destruction and aggression to midcarder and landed on one guy beats Tag team by himself. It couldn't be helped. They haven't written anything new in 15 years.
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Post by Loser troll. Please ban me on Nov 12, 2013 9:38:04 GMT -5
Because he's the top guy. And top guys are supposed to be booked strong. This guy has a point, I mean before this Cena had a single measly tag team title run and was dealing with a 25 match losing streak. Cena has been down on his luck in dark matches and narrowly escaped getting demoted to Superstars, Kid needed the rub.
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Post by molson5 on Nov 12, 2013 9:45:06 GMT -5
I pine for the good old days when Hulk Hogan, the Rock, and Steve Austin lost random matches to midcarders on TV with no buildup.
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Post by molson5 on Nov 12, 2013 9:49:12 GMT -5
So the people that think that the Real Americans should have defeated John Cena there, how often would you have John Cena win generally? 50% of the time against midcarders? 0%? Because it seems like the whiners come out of the woodwork any time he wins any match ever. And if he didn't ever wrestle midcarders, the same posters would just whine that Cena was never booked to wrestle midcarders.
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Post by Brother Nero....Wolfe on Nov 12, 2013 9:49:40 GMT -5
Asking why Cena won a handicap match is like asking why the sun is hot. Sure there's an explanation if you get into the physics of it, but in the end, it's just what the universe is like.
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Post by bootytea on Nov 12, 2013 9:50:42 GMT -5
John Cena has incomparable work rates.
If Antonio and Jack spent less time being racist and more time in the gym, they would have been the victor.
This is proof that with enough hustling, loyalty to your craft and respect for your body through abstaining from toxic drugs, you too can overcome seemingly overwhelming odds.
What an inspiration that John Cena is, now excuse me while I pick a fight among two guys that walk around in white capes during the early morning hours.
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wisdomwizard
King Koopa
Too Salty
Watching you.
Posts: 11,087
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Post by wisdomwizard on Nov 12, 2013 9:52:39 GMT -5
It's only "backwards booking" if Real Americans end up in a losing streak. That's not happening because they took a loss to Cena. The casuals won't even remember their loss when they inevitably win again in their other tag matches. The casuals won't even remember Cena beat them, they'll remember that he got beat down by Del Rio afterwards.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Nov 12, 2013 10:45:42 GMT -5
I didn't mind. gave him an excuse to make Cesaro and Swagger look good without actually losing to them, which is par for the course with Cena's booking. guy doesn't have to win to look good.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Nov 12, 2013 11:03:09 GMT -5
It's only "backwards booking" if Real Americans end up in a losing streak. That's not happening because they took a loss to Cena. The casuals won't even remember their loss when they inevitably win again in their other tag matches. The casuals won't even remember Cena beat them, they'll remember that he got beat down by Del Rio afterwards. Casuals remember more than you think. They watch the show as it's presented, and a lot see that two guys can't beat one, and automatically think they're losers. It's all in perception. That's why Shield for example got over. They were allowed to look dominant and won matches against everyone. And now, casuals don't bat an eye when they're in main events; and it meant A LOT when Bryan was the first one to beat them last Summer. This is how wrestling was always booked. It's what works. It's time-tested. Certain people raised on WWE's blundering, floundering, broken, slipping system might not know any better because this all they know, but it doesn't change the fact that it is and has been counterproductive to WWE's future. WWE's noveau way is FLAWED. So much so that they're living off the fumes of guys who were stars, because there isn't anyone bankable replacing them. And that is because of their shitty booking. WWE can't make new stars consistently because they do stupid shit like this.
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Post by TOK Is the Target Demo on Nov 12, 2013 11:21:39 GMT -5
It's only "backwards booking" if Real Americans end up in a losing streak. That's not happening because they took a loss to Cena. The casuals won't even remember their loss when they inevitably win again in their other tag matches. The casuals won't even remember Cena beat them, they'll remember that he got beat down by Del Rio afterwards. Casuals remember more than you think. They watch the show as it's presented, and a lot see that two guys can't beat one, and automatically think they're losers. It's all in perception. That's why Shield for example got over. They were allowed to look dominant and won matches against everyone. And now, casuals don't bat an eye when they're in main events; and it meant A LOT when Bryan was the first one to beat them last Summer. This is how wrestling was always booked. It's what works. It's time-tested. Certain people raised on WWE's blundering, floundering, broken, slipping system might not know any better because this all they know, but it doesn't change the fact that it is and has been counterproductive to WWE's future. WWE's noveau way is FLAWED. So much so that they're living off the fumes of guys who were stars, because there isn't anyone bankable replacing them. And that is because of their shitty booking. WWE can't make new stars consistently because they do stupid shit like this. They can't build stars because they're afraid to pull the trigger, not because of the weak booking of tag teams. They had Ryback last year, and Ziggler this year, who had the crowd behind them nearly 100% but didn't do crap all with it, because they were too afraid of the short term harm. They're too scared to look to the long term, which is why they keep bringing back stars from the Attitude Era for big money, low risk contracts.
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Post by Hit Girl on Nov 12, 2013 11:27:12 GMT -5
Because getting over Cena, who's already over, is the priority, no matter who else it might be detrimental to.
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wisdomwizard
King Koopa
Too Salty
Watching you.
Posts: 11,087
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Post by wisdomwizard on Nov 12, 2013 11:30:07 GMT -5
The crowds aren't going to turn on Real Americans just because of one loss to Cena. It doesn't hurt their momentum. They'll go on to win their next matches, and will probably have another shot at the tag titles in the near future. Possibly at Survivor Series.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2013 15:15:08 GMT -5
If this would have been either Cesaro OR Swagger vs Cena and Cena beat them, then I would have ZERO problem with it, because this was just as setup thing so Del Rio could assault Cena (Big E save, by the way, was very cool).
At this point Cena's gimmick is that he overcomes odds that no one wants to see overcame so, it fits perfectly in that respect.
Eh, Cesaro & Swagger winning or losing doesn't really matter so much, they'll bounce back by virtue of the fact that they're awesome at what they do - as long as it doesn't become a regular thing.
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Post by Hit Girl on Nov 12, 2013 15:18:23 GMT -5
This whole idea of "well they'll be OK" or "it won't harm them" or whatever misses the point.
There was no need to sacrifice them. Any disposable jobbers would have sufficed.
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Post by JTG Fan on Nov 12, 2013 15:28:38 GMT -5
Sean hit the nail on the head. For as much as people are saying "well, it won't hurt their momentum" or whatever, the fact is that all the loses add up to WWE viewers. It is something that can be overcome eventually with the right tidal wave of momentum (ex: Punk, Bryan), but for many guys they may be reasonably over but they can't get past that stigma of being out there and losing every single week. Triple H, Cena, Orton, etc, are where they are because of their winning ways and WWE hammering home that they are winners.
If I had to compare it so something, without trying to get too political here, I would say it's not dissimilar to the economic inequality in America. The top 1% make almost all the money. I would say the top 1% of WWE main eventers get almost all of the wins on TV. Everybody else, the Zigglers, Sandows, Cesaros, Rhodes', Barretts, Axels, Mizs, Kofis, etc, are left to do the best they can going through constant peaks and valleys in the W-L column.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2013 15:29:48 GMT -5
This whole idea of "well they'll be OK" or "it won't harm them" or whatever misses the point. There was no need to sacrifice them. Any disposable jobbers would have sufficed. I know what you mean, but as someone who loves the team and especially Cesaro, I do see the flip side of it. That is to say, odds are most fans who know/follow Cena don't really have an understanding of Cesaro and this was a way (not the best, at all) but a way for them to see them interacting some more than in the 6 man tags. They had more interaction in this match and Cesaro wasn't exactly booked to be a complete Kofi in all this. He got some good offense it (better than Sandow did, arguably) I'm not a "wait and see" guy, but if they don't repeat this over and over again and actually let Cesaro face Cena 1-on-1 later in a hardfought match, then I'll forgive this one.
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Post by Hit Girl on Nov 12, 2013 15:31:46 GMT -5
I remember that time before Summerslam 90, when Hulk Hogan defeated all three members of Demolition
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Post by thegame415 on Nov 12, 2013 16:51:08 GMT -5
Another question, if it was Punk or Bryan doing this, would people on the boards be complaining as much?
People worry to much about burying now. There was no lowering of any tag teams. Tag teams shouldn't beat main event players.
If you want a good example of a burying of tag teams, go back to late 2006 when DX destroyed virtually every tag team and they mounted pretty much no offense. That was making teams look bad.
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