Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
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Post by Boo! on Nov 26, 2013 9:16:24 GMT -5
]HBK was a scumbag whom Bret got into a legit fight with, built upon a few years of animosity. It was personal and a powderkeg. It wasn't in any way the usual leaving the territory situation. The time honored tradition stuff is actually a carny line used by the promoters and hardly ever adhered to or really respected by the talent. Almost every top star in wrestling's history protected their self-interests as independent contractors and their own "brands", or negotiated who they wanted to lose to on their way out (usually a friend, or someone they knew they could work a program with again down the line.). Flair refused to lay down for Luger in '91. Hulk Hogan bounced out of AWA without putting over a single soul. Goldberg got to go out on top of WWE's own creation. Randy Savage got a nice warm send off without having to do a job. Warrior never did a single job in any of his WWF company departures. Trish Stratus got to retire as WWE Women's champion. The list goes on and on. That said, I can't really feel bad for Vince. He backed a horse that refused to put over anyone, and threatened to quit the promotion just a few months before. It was an idiotic booking decision that didn't even make any business sense. HBK was a great talent, but his departure would have been just as insignificant financially overall to WWE as Bret's was. He was Austin's designated fall guy for Mania regardless. It's not like he was even going to be the top guy, or was the top guy. He was going to work a program with Hunter post Mania had he not been injured. The difference is that nobody knew Warrior and Savage were going. There's a difference between leaving a company as a commentator, midcarder or even main eventer and leaving it AS champion. It seems as if Bret didn't understand the bind McMahon was in. It wasn't as if he'd think "we'll wave Bret off andd move on". He had every reason to think that doing so would damage his company. The only way McMahon could have saved face and someone got some attention on WWF rather than on WCW where his (then) top star was going would have been a finish as how it planned out. Bret's personal animosity with Shawn shouldn't have come above showing respect for the company and the guy that had employed you for thirteen years. If Bret went to WCW as the champion or came out on television and laid the belt down on the floor and said "So long" it would have made both WWE an the title look terrible right in the middle of the wars. How could anyone honestly say they would have or Vince McMahon should have allowed that? As for what was said earlier about him willing to 'drop it to the Brawler at the Garden' - do we really think WWE at that time were in a financial position to lose out on a big PPV title match because? Of course they weren't. Why should they?
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Nov 26, 2013 9:45:48 GMT -5
]HBK was a scumbag whom Bret got into a legit fight with, built upon a few years of animosity. It was personal and a powderkeg. It wasn't in any way the usual leaving the territory situation. The time honored tradition stuff is actually a carny line used by the promoters and hardly ever adhered to or really respected by the talent. Almost every top star in wrestling's history protected their self-interests as independent contractors and their own "brands", or negotiated who they wanted to lose to on their way out (usually a friend, or someone they knew they could work a program with again down the line.). Flair refused to lay down for Luger in '91. Hulk Hogan bounced out of AWA without putting over a single soul. Goldberg got to go out on top of WWE's own creation. Randy Savage got a nice warm send off without having to do a job. Warrior never did a single job in any of his WWF company departures. Trish Stratus got to retire as WWE Women's champion. The list goes on and on. That said, I can't really feel bad for Vince. He backed a horse that refused to put over anyone, and threatened to quit the promotion just a few months before. It was an idiotic booking decision that didn't even make any business sense. HBK was a great talent, but his departure would have been just as insignificant financially overall to WWE as Bret's was. He was Austin's designated fall guy for Mania regardless. It's not like he was even going to be the top guy, or was the top guy. He was going to work a program with Hunter post Mania had he not been injured. The difference is that nobody knew Warrior and Savage were going. There's a difference between leaving a company as a commentator, midcarder or even main eventer and leaving it AS champion. It seems as if Bret didn't understand the bind McMahon was in. It wasn't as if he'd think "we'll wave Bret off andd move on". He had every reason to think that doing so would damage his company. The only way McMahon could have saved face and someone got some attention on WWF rather than on WCW where his (then) top star was going would have been a finish as how it planned out. Bret's personal animosity with Shawn shouldn't have come above showing respect for the company and the guy that had employed you for thirteen years. If Bret went to WCW as the champion or came out on television and laid the belt down on the floor and said "So long" it would have made both WWE an the title look terrible right in the middle of the wars. How could anyone honestly say they would have or Vince McMahon should have allowed that? As for what was said earlier about him willing to 'drop it to the Brawler at the Garden' - do we really think WWE at that time were in a financial position to lose out on a big PPV title match because? Of course they weren't. Why should they? No, he knew the bind Vince was in. That's why he agreed to other scenarios. And keep in mind, Vince pushed him out the door. And did so WHILE Bret was Champion, a month before booking that PPV. Vince had a whole month to come up with a contingency. Vince was an imbecile. He could have solved the problem any number of ways. Hell, he could have just lied and said Bret lost it on a house show. The company began off a fake Buddy Rogers title win after all. And Bret could not have brought the WWF Title to Nitro. He was still under contract. And would be until the night after the DX PPV. This is the most oft-repeated falsehood used in defense of the Screwjob. But it was not legally possible. As for Bret not showing respect for the company -- he only showed no respect for Shawn, a guy he had beyond personal animosity with. He was open to other ideas. And at that point, Shawn didn't even deserve the respect. You're basically advocating a guy becoming Champion who virtually could not be trusted, walked out on the company in the summer in the middle of a big storyline, and faked injuries to avoid doing jobs and dropping belts. And now, Bret has to respect him and "make him"? f*** what the promoter wants, honestly. He's the one begging you to go and relinquish your contract after years of loyalty and carrying the company though failed experiments and falling business. As for the advertised PPV: Shit happens and has happened. And what ended up happening was much worse for Montreal fans than Bret not being there, or the match being changed. And for the record, Vince knew Savage's contract was expiring way ahead of time. And Warrior was let go in '92 for steroid reasons (although he swears differently). They could have easily had him written out in a way that made someone. At that point, he was technically their top guy and top paid star.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Nov 26, 2013 9:52:27 GMT -5
Bret's personal animosity with Shawn shouldn't have come above showing respect for the company and the guy that had employed you for thirteen years. You mean like accepting that he'd have to leave and head to a company where everyone knew he'd be misused for the good of the WWF as they can no longer afford to honour the contract they agreed to rather than walking out on them the moment a cheque arrived late or was less than what he'd expected, or flat out suing for breach of contract? Like telling guys like Mick Foley who were ready to quit over the screwjob to stay for the good of their families and careers? Like foolishly believing that the WWF would stick to terms they agreed to? That monster! He as good as spat on the WWF! If only he was like guys who respected the business, like Shawn Michaels who never walked out or faked injury rather than lose a belt, or Ric Flair, who would never take a companies title and put it on display on a rival's TV show, or maybe Hulk Hogan, who would never, ever walk out in the middle of a program to avoid putting someone over. Seriously though, he was one of the few main eventers that the WWF have had that has done everything asked of him rather than pissing and moaning, walking out or trying to manipulate people backstage in order to get results changed to favour him. He had one moment where he thought sod it, and he'd earned that right and until the night of Survivor series, the WWF agreed.
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Boo! on Nov 26, 2013 10:13:37 GMT -5
Bret's personal animosity with Shawn shouldn't have come above showing respect for the company and the guy that had employed you for thirteen years. You mean like accepting that he'd have to leave and head to a company where everyone knew he'd be misused for the good of the WWF as they can no longer afford to honour the contract they agreed to rather than walking out on them the moment a cheque arrived late or was less than what he'd expected, or flat out suing for breach of contract? Like telling guys like Mick Foley who were ready to quit over the screwjob to stay for the good of their families and careers? Like foolishly believing that the WWF would stick to terms they agreed to? That monster! He as good as spat on the WWF! If only he was like guys who respected the business, like Shawn Michaels who never walked out rather than lose a belt, or Ric Flair, who would never take a companies title and put it on display on a rival's TV show, or maybe Hulk Hogan, who would never, ever walk out in the middle of a program to avoid putting someone over. Why is the conduct of others relevant to anything? He was the outgoing champion and refused to job to the person who the promoter wanted him to. That's it. If it was a number of other guys who did this they'd get heat. Imagine if Hogan said "I'll job to Bret but not in America, brother," who wouldn't laugh their ass off at that? But Bret said he won't job for Shawn in Canada and the reaction is 'Oh well, that makes sense." No it doesn't, it's ridiculous. Whether Hogan or Flair or HBK were asses in the past is irrelevant. Unless you want to play the game of 'I refused to job for him but he refused to job for the other guy who refused to job to someone else...so it's all fine". Do we not think that prior to Flair or Hogan's shenanigans that wrestlers held up, blackmailed, threatened or walked out on promoters before? Of course they did but how did the fact that 'people in wrestling are assholes' justify their own prickish behaviour? The answer is: it doesn't and it doesn't excuse Bret's either. Personally I'd have had a schmoz finish to the Survivor Series and the next night on Raw announce that McMahon had stripped Bret of the belt due to contractual dispute, launched the 'evil owner' character that way. But even then Bret would have been upset at not getting the on-air send-off and confetti and everything else. Fact is McMahon did what he had to do in the face of talent not following instructions. It was one of those rare moments in wrestling where there wasn't a sudden walk out, WWE had the chance to bring closure to one of their greatest ever sagas. They wanted to do that by putting HBK over. That was entirely their prerogative. The fact he's a dick isn't relevant. It wasn't Bret's belt, it's not Bret's company and it was never Bret's call to make. He walked right into the screwjob and in the years post the event has allowed it to be the one thing that defined his career. That's his biggest mistake. Rather than playing along "Yeah, it was all a work, me and Vince are buddies" he instead became Bret 'screwjob' Hart.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Nov 26, 2013 10:26:30 GMT -5
]Why is the conduct of others relevant to anything? He was the outgoing champion and refused to job to the person who the promoter wanted him to. That's it. If it was a number of other guys who did this they'd get heat. Imagine if Hogan said "I'll job to Bret but not in America, brother," who wouldn't laugh their ass off at that? Bret had a clause in his contract giving him control of his departure, something the promoter gave him in order to make his departure easier everyone and avoid a lot of ill will. Blah, blah, respect the promoter, blah, Vince gave him the clause then changed his mind on the night of an event, that makes it Vince's problem, not Bret's. This wasn't Bret being unreasonable, this wasn't Bret refusing to job time and time and time and time again like so many of his peers, this was Vince reneging on a deal then making excuses to make it seem like it had to happen for the good of the WWF, most of which don't hold up to any sort of scrutiny. You wand Bret to job to Shawn on his way out? You don't give him a creative control clause, doing so means you no longer have the right to turn around and wail to anyone that will listen about him being unreasonable when he wanted to put over anyone but that one person.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Nov 26, 2013 10:59:10 GMT -5
Fact is McMahon did what he had to do in the face of talent not following instructions. It was one of those rare moments in wrestling where there wasn't a sudden walk out, WWE had the chance to bring closure to one of their greatest ever sagas. They wanted to do that by putting HBK over. That was entirely their prerogative. The fact he's a dick isn't relevant. It wasn't Bret's belt, it's not Bret's company and it was never Bret's call to make. He walked right into the screwjob and in the years post the event has allowed it to be the one thing that defined his career. That's his biggest mistake. Rather than playing along "Yeah, it was all a work, me and Vince are buddies" he instead became Bret 'screwjob' Hart. No, that's not the fact. Vince AGREED to the shmozz and Bret's contractually legal demands, then f***ed him anyway. As I mentioned, there were two full months from the time Bret finished up for him to drop the belt. Vince left it to the week before Survivor Series to even discuss the finish. It was as absurd and unprofessional as anything Bret did. A truly desperate man doesn't wait thirty days to even entertain a finish to a match he had been building for almost 2 years, during a wrestling war, wherein he asks his Champion to leave. And your insistence that Bret wouldn't have done anything but a celebrated hero send off complete with surrendering of the belt is negated by the fact that Bret's attorney actually faxed over a signed document from Bret, wherein he listed those who he would lose to without question and where. The whole scenario you described was a Wrestling With Shadows out of context thought by him, sighing and wishing he could have left in a way where he got to go out appreciated for his loyalty. But he absolutely knew that was never going to be the case. Hell, there's audio of the exact Vince/Bret discussion wherein he and Vince discuss what would happen, and how they'd get the belt off of him. As for the Hulk Hogan in the U.S. example, that only works if Hulk is wrestling in an angle with national pride on the line, built slowly over years against a heel that embodies all the traits the host country despises. If Hulk Hogan left after WM 7, instead of 8, do you honestly think that he'd have agreed to job to Sgt. Slaughter after that build, and those emotions? And this is without him having any sort of legit heat with the guy. It's just Hulk, representing the full values of his character and country, against a bad guy who embodies everything that's wrong and rotten with "his". I doubt it. And I doubt WWF would have booked it that way. But to those not from Canada, let me tell you, that is exactly how it was. It was the final battle between our guy, and America's prima donna, for bragging rights, and on OUR soil to boot. Bret losing would have been a HUGE bummer and damaged his reputation as the standard wrestling bearer of the Great white North. I don't think people realize how popular Bret is here. He's on our Walk of Fame. He was voted one of history's most celebrated Canadians, and his Dad actually received the Order of Canada. That's why WCW wanted him. They had no market here, and Canada was the one place where WWF was kicking WCW's ass.
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Post by jason1980s on Nov 26, 2013 11:06:40 GMT -5
Fact is McMahon did what he had to do in the face of talent not following instructions. It was one of those rare moments in wrestling where there wasn't a sudden walk out, WWE had the chance to bring closure to one of their greatest ever sagas. They wanted to do that by putting HBK over. That was entirely their prerogative. The fact he's a dick isn't relevant. It wasn't Bret's belt, it's not Bret's company and it was never Bret's call to make. He walked right into the screwjob and in the years post the event has allowed it to be the one thing that defined his career. That's his biggest mistake. Rather than playing along "Yeah, it was all a work, me and Vince are buddies" he instead became Bret 'screwjob' Hart. The best revenge on Vince would be too downplay the screwjob by going on Nitro and saying it was all a work, that the original idea of the outsiders coming to WCW to take it down from within is continuing with himself. Perhaps Vince could do another lawsuit but all Bret would have to do is say it once and the Mr. McMahon character never happens. We all remember Rick Rude being on Raw and Nitro the same night so I'm sure we would remember Bret screwing McMahon's screwjob.
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Post by RowdyRobbyPiper on Nov 26, 2013 11:29:48 GMT -5
The Canada things was always a red herring anyway. He just didn't want to drop it to Shawn, period. As is documented, he would have gladly dropped to anyone else. He probably would have agreed to drop to Austin at Survivor Series, but Mr. McMahon was hell bent it would be his Boy Toy.
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Incognito
ALF
Putting the fun back in funeral
Posts: 1,024
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Post by Incognito on Nov 26, 2013 11:29:56 GMT -5
]HBK was a scumbag whom Bret got into a legit fight with, built upon a few years of animosity. It was personal and a powderkeg. It wasn't in any way the usual leaving the territory situation. The time honored tradition stuff is actually a carny line used by the promoters and hardly ever adhered to or really respected by the talent. Almost every top star in wrestling's history protected their self-interests as independent contractors and their own "brands", or negotiated who they wanted to lose to on their way out (usually a friend, or someone they knew they could work a program with again down the line.). Flair refused to lay down for Luger in '91. Hulk Hogan bounced out of AWA without putting over a single soul. Goldberg got to go out on top of WWE's own creation. Randy Savage got a nice warm send off without having to do a job. Warrior never did a single job in any of his WWF company departures. Trish Stratus got to retire as WWE Women's champion. The list goes on and on. That said, I can't really feel bad for Vince. He backed a horse that refused to put over anyone, and threatened to quit the promotion just a few months before. It was an idiotic booking decision that didn't even make any business sense. HBK was a great talent, but his departure would have been just as insignificant financially overall to WWE as Bret's was. He was Austin's designated fall guy for Mania regardless. It's not like he was even going to be the top guy, or was the top guy. He was going to work a program with Hunter post Mania had he not been injured. The difference is that nobody knew Warrior and Savage were going. There's a difference between leaving a company as a commentator, midcarder or even main eventer and leaving it AS champion. It seems as if Bret didn't understand the bind McMahon was in. It wasn't as if he'd think "we'll wave Bret off andd move on". He had every reason to think that doing so would damage his company. The only way McMahon could have saved face and someone got some attention on WWF rather than on WCW where his (then) top star was going would have been a finish as how it planned out. Bret's personal animosity with Shawn shouldn't have come above showing respect for the company and the guy that had employed you for thirteen years. If Bret went to WCW as the champion or came out on television and laid the belt down on the floor and said "So long" it would have made both WWE an the title look terrible right in the middle of the wars. How could anyone honestly say they would have or Vince McMahon should have allowed that? As for what was said earlier about him willing to 'drop it to the Brawler at the Garden' - do we really think WWE at that time were in a financial position to lose out on a big PPV title match because? Of course they weren't. Why should they? So if Vince was that worried about the belt and his company, why didn't he accept Bret's many offers to put over four different guys that night (Austin, Undertaker, Shamrock, "hell even Lombardi") or Shawn the very next night on Raw? Bret even said in his book that near the end he offered the belt to anyone but Shawn. That doesn't sound like someone who had a problem doing a job on the way out. What was Vince's obsession with Shawn anyway? For all the times people say Bret takes the business or himself too seriously, and yes sometimes he may, I find it interesting that Vince took Shawn as champion and no one else in the whole company very seriously that night. Vince went to a lot of trouble not to get the belt off of Bret but to put the belt on Shawn specifically.If Bret was legally wrong why did Vince double cross him? Why didn't Vince simply say "I can legally force you to do this"? If Vince and Shawn were right, why did the Undertaker blow his stack (after the pay-per-view that night) and shout that he was going to "bring Vince's *** down in the dressing-room and have Vince explain himself to him (Undertaker), Bret and everyone else"? I doubt many people would call the Undertaker dim or naïve. The Undertaker had to pound on Vince's office door since McMahon was hiding at the time. I guess because he totally did not breach a contract...victorious retreat!
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Nov 26, 2013 12:06:57 GMT -5
I love that the Montreal Screwjob still sparks heated debates. I was afraid that the impact of the event would die down over time.
On a different note, some more thoughts about the book.
In the beginning of the book, Stu Hart comes off pretty bad, but overall he ends up coming off pretty good--certainly flawed to a degree, like everybody else. I can totally understand why the rest of the family would be a little upset at Bret for his portrayal of Stu in this and in Wrestling with Shadows, though.
Also, as Bret gets older he starts to resemble his father more and more.
Bret does truly believe that he was more popular than Hulk Hogan at a certain part of his career--especially in Germany. This may sound crazy, to a degree. He was very popular, though and he seems like a person who had a strong belief in himself. I think this is probably what helped make him successful.
Bret takes a lot of pride in his work, with good reason. He was a great worker...one of the best. However, in his stories there does seem to be a lot of repetition on the theme that he "carried" so and so when they just couldn't keep up.
He was champion at a time when the champion was treated differently, probably with a lot more respect than they are today. He was also champion when this was beginning to change. During the post Hogan period, you started to see Vince become a lot more lukewarm about fully supporting the champion with everything he had...to the point that he'd unintentionally sabotage their chances to be successful. The champion would often be put in a secondary position to other characters and, even though he was given focus, it wasn't to the same degree as during the Hogan era and I think this made a difference.
Bret seemed to have no idea that Nash's reign was being more or less sabotaged. He was only focused on making his new reign successful. It was strange that, having been a former champion himself, he didn't understand that Nash was promised the moon by Vince and then it wasn't really delivered. The same sort of thing happened to Warrior, Nash, and even Bret himself in his first reign...but it doesn't seem like Bret understood that this was happening to people other than him--even in hindsight.
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dav
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,066
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Post by dav on Nov 26, 2013 12:36:15 GMT -5
I admit to almost bursting out laughing when he said he felt he let Canada down over the Montreal Screwjob. I was really annoyed with how much he lied and crapped over Davey Boy for SummerSlam '92. I got the impression he really just wanted to take credit for the match. His really petty snipes at Kevin Nash hurt him in my estimation. Why do you say he lied about SummerSlam '92? As a ring general, he is known to have carried quite a few wrestlers/matches in his day so why is it unbelievable in this instance? In his book, Bret mentions that Davey was breathing hard after only a few minutes; this could be attributed to his drug use (he had fessed up to smoking crack with Jim The Anvil in the last few weeks before the match). Then Davey panted that he could not remember anything. So Bret simply did what had been done many times before in the business; He called out the next moves until the match was over. It happens. For example, I have not heard anyone dispute the fact that Randy Savage carried The Ultimate Warrior at Wrestlemania 7. Also, Bret mentions that when he wrestled the British Bulldogs, it would be Dynamite Kid and him who would put the matches together not Davey and Jim. I'm not trying to start something here I'm just curious as to why you say he lied and crapped over Davey Boy for SummerSlam'92? He basically said that he dragged Davey Boy to do anything in their match at SummerSlam "I went up light as a feather, he went up like a weight." Basically shows what he thought of it. He lied about the ending too, saying that Davey didn't shake his hand at the end and screwed up was planned, despite the fact that Davey did the planned ending. Even if I'm going to say that's not a lie on Bret's part, a simple five minute DVD skip through would have allowed him to jog his memory. And let's not forget that everything had to come down to Davey Boy being on drugs and not, y'know, the fact that the guy was working through a really bad knee injury at the time. And I dispute that anyone gets 'carried' to anything, it takes two to tango, you can see Bulldog doing his share in the match. Although to be fair, Bret said he was the most popular guy in Europe at SummerSlam so he might not be deliberately lying, just delusional.
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
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Post by Boo! on Nov 26, 2013 13:36:22 GMT -5
Why do you say he lied about SummerSlam '92? As a ring general, he is known to have carried quite a few wrestlers/matches in his day so why is it unbelievable in this instance? In his book, Bret mentions that Davey was breathing hard after only a few minutes; this could be attributed to his drug use (he had fessed up to smoking crack with Jim The Anvil in the last few weeks before the match). Then Davey panted that he could not remember anything. So Bret simply did what had been done many times before in the business; He called out the next moves until the match was over. It happens. For example, I have not heard anyone dispute the fact that Randy Savage carried The Ultimate Warrior at Wrestlemania 7. Also, Bret mentions that when he wrestled the British Bulldogs, it would be Dynamite Kid and him who would put the matches together not Davey and Jim. I'm not trying to start something here I'm just curious as to why you say he lied and crapped over Davey Boy for SummerSlam'92? He basically said that he dragged Davey Boy to do anything in their match at SummerSlam "I went up light as a feather, he went up like a weight." Basically shows what he thought of it. He lied about the ending too, saying that Davey didn't shake his hand at the end and screwed up was planned, despite the fact that Davey did the planned ending. Even if I'm going to say that's not a lie on Bret's part, a simple five minute DVD skip through would have allowed him to jog his memory. And let's not forget that everything had to come down to Davey Boy being on drugs and not, y'know, the fact that the guy was working through a really bad knee injury at the time. And I dispute that anyone gets 'carried' to anything, it takes two to tango, you can see Bulldog doing his share in the match. Although to be fair, Bret said he was the most popular guy in Europe at SummerSlam so he might not be deliberately lying, just delusional. Summerslam was sold mostly off the back of the world title fight between Warrior and Savage. It was the primary focus of UK editions of Superstars and Wrestling Challenge to. The Bret/Smith match went on last simply because it was a clean win to send the fans home happy as opposed to the cluster that was the WWE title match that evening.
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Lila
El Dandy
Slip N Slide World Champion 1997
Posts: 8,905
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Post by Lila on Nov 26, 2013 13:42:56 GMT -5
Isn't there a story of Bret messing around with Salt-n-Pepa around WrestleMania 11? Gave me a reason to post this.
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dav
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,066
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Post by dav on Nov 26, 2013 13:53:54 GMT -5
He basically said that he dragged Davey Boy to do anything in their match at SummerSlam "I went up light as a feather, he went up like a weight." Basically shows what he thought of it. He lied about the ending too, saying that Davey didn't shake his hand at the end and screwed up was planned, despite the fact that Davey did the planned ending. Even if I'm going to say that's not a lie on Bret's part, a simple five minute DVD skip through would have allowed him to jog his memory. And let's not forget that everything had to come down to Davey Boy being on drugs and not, y'know, the fact that the guy was working through a really bad knee injury at the time. And I dispute that anyone gets 'carried' to anything, it takes two to tango, you can see Bulldog doing his share in the match. Although to be fair, Bret said he was the most popular guy in Europe at SummerSlam so he might not be deliberately lying, just delusional. Summerslam was sold mostly off the back of the world title fight between Warrior and Savage. It was the primary focus of UK editions of Superstars and Wrestling Challenge to. The Bret/Smith match went on last simply because it was a clean win to send the fans home happy as opposed to the cluster that was the WWE title match that evening. Well that and Davey Boy was the most over guy on the card. He was in the main event of the major UK events at that time and he had a match with IRS that went after a Savage/Michaels match a while before SummerSlam while on the UK Rampage tour.
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
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Post by Boo! on Nov 26, 2013 14:23:45 GMT -5
Summerslam was sold mostly off the back of the world title fight between Warrior and Savage. It was the primary focus of UK editions of Superstars and Wrestling Challenge to. The Bret/Smith match went on last simply because it was a clean win to send the fans home happy as opposed to the cluster that was the WWE title match that evening. Well that and Davey Boy was the most over guy on the card. He was in the main event of the major UK events at that time and he had a match with IRS that went after a Savage/Michaels match a while before SummerSlam while on the UK Rampage tour. Indeed if you look at the European tour they did earlier that year, Bret played a very preliminary role in most shows with matches vs Shawn Michaels that occurred quite early on in the card during most shows. In the spring of 1991 Bret was considered such a huge draw in Europe that they didn't even take him on first part the tour instead leaving him behind to work house shows in the US and when he did go the only match he wrestled as a singles competitior was a curtain jerker vs Barbarian. I've never seen any evidence of Bret's popularity in Europe at all. I think he gives himself WAY too much credit for Summerslam selling 80,000 tickets and since then he's somehow got into his head that he's the Hulk Hogan of Europe.
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Post by RedSmile on Nov 26, 2013 14:34:59 GMT -5
Well that and Davey Boy was the most over guy on the card. He was in the main event of the major UK events at that time and he had a match with IRS that went after a Savage/Michaels match a while before SummerSlam while on the UK Rampage tour. Indeed if you look at the European tour they did earlier that year, Bret played a very preliminary role in most shows with matches vs Shawn Michaels that occurred quite early on in the card during most shows. In the spring of 1991 Bret was considered such a huge draw in Europe that they didn't even take him on first part the tour instead leaving him behind to work house shows in the US and when he did go the only match he wrestled as a singles competitior was a curtain jerker vs Barbarian. I've never seen any evidence of Bret's popularity in Europe at all. I think he gives himself WAY too much credit for Summerslam selling 80,000 tickets and since then he's somehow got into his head that he's the Hulk Hogan of Europe. Now, how do you know that, Monsoon? You just wish YOU were as cool as the Hitman.
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
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Post by Boo! on Nov 26, 2013 15:50:04 GMT -5
Incidentally just listening to a Jake Roberts interview from last month where he says Bret's claim of never hurting anyone in the ring to be "bullshit". Jake calls him "dangerous" and mentions how Dynamite used to stiff him as revenge/payback for it.
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Nov 26, 2013 15:56:50 GMT -5
Does he say anything about the "It's called protecting the business, Jake!" story.
For those interested--and as I recall. Back in Stampede says, Bret, Jake, and Dynamite are sitting in a bar when Jake and some scrawny guy start getting into an argument that gets heated to the point that they both go outside. I believe Jake is the champion at the time. At first they want to think nothing of it, Jake will kick the guy's ass no problem. One of them gets worried and they walk outside to see Jake begging off the guy. Dynamite walks over, headbutts the guy, and says the line from above.
It made Jake sound like a punk. So I wonder if anybody's asked him about it.
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Post by Throwback on Nov 26, 2013 16:09:15 GMT -5
I admit to almost bursting out laughing when he said he felt he let Canada down over the Montreal Screwjob. The Canadian pride thing has always puzzled me, a little. Like, I totally understand that he's proud to be a Canadian, and that he wanted to project himself as a Canadian hero. That's fine w/ me. I can understand not wanting to lose in your hometown. Maybe even your own Province... But, Bret is from Alberta. Not Quebec. Quebec (especially in the late 90s) is the "weird Province that sometimes doesn't even want to be a part of Canada," and they speak "french" not "english." It's like another country within the borders of Canada. He said it didn't have as much to do with losing in Canada as it did losing to Shawn. Apparently one night in the back, Shawn thanked Bret for giving him the honors then Shawn added "Just to let you know, I wouldn't do the same for you". Bret said he would have dropped the title to Brooklyn Brawler the next night on RAW if they wanted him too. One thing I disagree with Bret is, He complained about Shawn only wanting to work with his kliq. But Bret had a clique of his own that he tried to protect, He just felt it was warranted because they were his family.
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Nov 26, 2013 16:11:32 GMT -5
The Canadian pride thing has always puzzled me, a little. Like, I totally understand that he's proud to be a Canadian, and that he wanted to project himself as a Canadian hero. That's fine w/ me. I can understand not wanting to lose in your hometown. Maybe even your own Province... But, Bret is from Alberta. Not Quebec. Quebec (especially in the late 90s) is the "weird Province that sometimes doesn't even want to be a part of Canada," and they speak "french" not "english." It's like another country within the borders of Canada. He said it didn't have as much to do with losing in Canada as it did losing to Shawn. Apparently one night in the back, Shawn thanked Bret for giving him the honors then Shawn added "Just to let you know, I wouldn't do the same for you". Bret said he would have dropped the title to Brooklyn Brawler the next night on RAW if they wanted him too. One thing I disagree with Bret is, He complained about Shawn only wanting to work with his kliq. But Bret had a clique of his own that he tried to protect, He just felt it was warranted because they were his family. I agree with that 100%. He also justified it by saying that he didn't want to "only" work with his family, but it's not that much different from what Michael's was doing with the kliq.
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