Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2013 2:40:34 GMT -5
It's a creative failure. You have five great workers in a feud, two of them more than capable of using the mic to move the story along but all this feud has been, is what every feud turns into, guys just trading wins and run-ins, nothing being pushed forward other than "these guys want to fight each other and we can't put together any reason for you to care about this", your only investment in the drama is based on how much you care about them at the most basic level because no work has been put into any of it.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Nov 25, 2013 3:43:56 GMT -5
It's baffling why WWE insists on pushing a proven failure as a draw, Punk, as a top star. The kid does not have the look or charisma to capture the attention of the mainstream audience. He needs to be de-pushed. It's (literally) what's best for business. You *literally* have no idea what you're talking about. Punk is the definitive number 2 full-time performer in the company. Cena is far and away number 1, but Punk's segments almost always do 2nd best, and he actually drew with Ryback last year, beating every non-Brock b-level show in 2012. He's not a game changer, but right now, NO ONE is. And if he's a failure, then everyone outside of Cena on the full-time roster is a no-hoper. He hasn't cost WWE any money. At all. His merch is neck and neck with Cena's. And all the shows he was on as Champion outdrew the previous year's efforts. What more can you ask from a guy doing the 2nd best business is a company ran so creatively terribly? You act like he's being chosen and protected over someone more over and bigger business than him. There's just no valid evidence to suggest that he's harmed business. |
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Chip
Hank Scorpio
Slam Jam Death.
Posts: 5,185
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Post by Chip on Nov 25, 2013 3:44:39 GMT -5
It's baffling why WWE insists on pushing a proven failure as a draw, Punk, as a top star. The kid does not have the look or charisma to capture the attention of the mainstream audience. He needs to be de-pushed. It's (literally) what's best for business. When there's one, maybe two active performers on the roster that are draws putting someone on TV that can put on a good match, cut a memorable promo, pop a crowd and shift merchandise isn't exactly baffling. |
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Heartbreaker
King Koopa
Is actually Bindi Irwin
RIP Punk's media scrum, Page 54, Muffins, Biting People Bad™ (2022 - 2022)
Posts: 11,846 
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Post by Heartbreaker on Nov 25, 2013 4:00:38 GMT -5
It's baffling why WWE insists on pushing a proven failure as a draw, Punk, as a top star. The kid does not have the look or charisma to capture the attention of the mainstream audience. He needs to be de-pushed. It's (literally) what's best for business.  You should be a comedian. |
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Post by misconduct was wrong on Nov 25, 2013 4:23:42 GMT -5
Keeping this on topic. This is not a CM Punk issue to me. For several years now, they've just had their top faces go over EVERYONE on every show.
As for this feud. I agree with Bryan/Punk beating the Wyatts. Remember here, Bray is the leader, and he didn't lose. His lackeys did. Now Bray is probably going to lose next month, since this is a poorly written feud, but maybe they have some plan in place.... maybe.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,650 
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Post by The Ichi on Nov 25, 2013 7:57:31 GMT -5
It's baffling why WWE insists on pushing a proven failure as a draw, Punk, as a top star. The kid does not have the look or charisma to capture the attention of the mainstream audience. He needs to be de-pushed. It's (literally) what's best for business. This isn't a boom period, there's no such thing as a "draw" anymore. |
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Post by Ape Boy on Nov 25, 2013 8:16:54 GMT -5
It's baffling why WWE insists on pushing a proven failure as a draw, Punk, as a top star. The kid does not have the look or charisma to capture the attention of the mainstream audience. He needs to be de-pushed. It's (literally) what's best for business. You *literally* have no idea what you're talking about. Punk is the definitive number 2 full-time performer in the company. Cena is far and away number 1, but Punk's segments almost always do 2nd best, and he actually drew with Ryback last year, beating every non-Brock b-level show in 2012. He's not a game changer, but right now, NO ONE is. And if he's a failure, then everyone outside of Cena on the full-time roster is a no-hoper. He hasn't cost WWE any money. At all. His merch is neck and neck with Cena's. And all the shows he was on as Champion outdrew the previous year's efforts. What more can you ask from a guy doing the 2nd best business is a company ran so creatively terribly? You act like he's being chosen and protected over someone more over and bigger business than him. There's just no valid evidence to suggest that he's harmed business. The evidence says otherwise. Do I side with the evidence, or with a ranting fanboy? Hmm... tough decision. |
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Nov 25, 2013 8:26:45 GMT -5
You *literally* have no idea what you're talking about. Punk is the definitive number 2 full-time performer in the company. Cena is far and away number 1, but Punk's segments almost always do 2nd best, and he actually drew with Ryback last year, beating every non-Brock b-level show in 2012. He's not a game changer, but right now, NO ONE is. And if he's a failure, then everyone outside of Cena on the full-time roster is a no-hoper. He hasn't cost WWE any money. At all. His merch is neck and neck with Cena's. And all the shows he was on as Champion outdrew the previous year's efforts. What more can you ask from a guy doing the 2nd best business is a company ran so creatively terribly? You act like he's being chosen and protected over someone more over and bigger business than him. There's just no valid evidence to suggest that he's harmed business. The evidence says otherwise. Do I side with the evidence, or with a ranting fanboy? Hmm... tough decision. You might want to follow your own advice and look up buyrates and ratings breakdowns. And lol@ fan boy. Who are you again? Because that's a pretty high pedestal you're standing on for a guy who no one reads, for a website no one's heard of. |
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Post by angryfan on Nov 25, 2013 8:31:57 GMT -5
No one is a "credible draw" outside of Cena. Cena's absence doesn't have a negative effect on ratings, which has also been proven. We can then infer that Cena doesn't have a positive effect on ratings since the opposite is a proven fact.
He moves merchandise, but no one looks good after a feud with him, because they are just shown to not be on his level.
We can do this with anyone, because WWE's model is one guy on top, and everyone else in a heap somewhere else. It's not the model they've always used, because up until WCW disappeared, their midcard guys mattered and could easily main event programs and then shift back to the midcard but maintain their importance and drawing ability.
Today no one can do that. If they're not currently in the main event, and treated as "the focus of the show", then they mean nothing at all. We can delude ourselves, but outside of maybe 3 guys, no one gets the "where's Poochie" treatment.
Those three are Orton, Cena, and Triple H.
Orton is more of a ratings killer than Punk, Bryan, Shamus, or anyone else. For almost a decade, when he's on top people change the channel. Smackdown's ratings prove this fact. Yet they push him.
I figure as long as they insist a legend(ary) ratings killer can be pushed, the argument of "this guy doesn't draw" for anyone else loses a lot of steam.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Nov 25, 2013 8:54:08 GMT -5
Since the attitude era stars started to drift away, they've been carefully structuring things so the WWE itself is the draw rather than one particular star, anyone who seems to be on the cusp of getting too big is brought down by booking to a level where they're not likely to leave and do something else like Rock and Brock. Remember when Cena was white hot and had all the audience behind him, not just kids? Remember when Punk seemed like he was going to get a lot of mainstream attention when he left with the title? They soon sorted that.
Punk isn't a draw, but outside of special attraction names, no-one is. Welcome to the modern WWE, home of the Orton.
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Post by angryfan on Nov 25, 2013 8:56:22 GMT -5
Since the attitude era stars started to drift away, they've been carefully structuring things so the WWE itself is the draw rather than one particular star, anyone who seems to be on the cusp of getting too big is brought down by booking to a level where they're not likely to leave and do something else like Rock and Brock. Remember when Cena was white hot and had all the audience behind him, not just kids? Remember when Punk seemed like he was going to get a lot of mainstream attention when he left with the title? They soon sorted that. Punk isn't a draw, but outside of special attraction names, no-one is. Welcome to the modern WWE, home of the Orton. SOrry, I'm just seeing a Burger King sign with "Home of the Orton" and giggling like an idiot. Sadly, I also see an empty parking lot while the restaurant manager stands in the parking lot and screams at traffic. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2013 9:04:08 GMT -5
On a more serious note, am I the only one who sees him as being really half-hearted in taking part in the 'Yes' chants? Almost everything Punk does as a babyface seems kind of phony and half-hearted to me. Don't get me wrong, he's still one of my favorite wrestlers in WWE... The guy's just a natural heel. The only time your realize "what side he's on" is the way he does the "it's clobberin' time" part. Otherwise, he's like Dean Malenko. Business at hand, ready for a fight. Not all our good guys need to be pandering fools. |
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Nov 25, 2013 9:06:36 GMT -5
SOrry, I'm just seeing a Burger King sign with "Home of the Orton" and giggling like an idiot. Sadly, I also see an empty parking lot while the restaurant manager stands in the parking lot and screams at traffic. The few customers that wander through will be given an Orton, no matter what they order. Whopper? Orton. Fries? Orton. Taco? Alberto del Orton. |
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Nov 25, 2013 9:17:32 GMT -5
The Wyatts are an upper-midcard heel stable that have been around for a cup of coffee, Bryan is the most over babyface in the company and Punk is the longest reigning WWE champion of the modern era. OF COURSE they lost. If they hadn't lost, half of the forum would complain that the two hottest babyfaces shouldn't be jobbing to glorified midcarder newbies, and if it had been some kind of DQ finish then half of us would say it was stupid that they did a DQ finish on a PPV for a match people actually wanted to see.
You can put someone over without jobbing out to them. The Wyatts looked like a million bucks out there, and I'm actually more interested in them myself too. I loved the gimmick but hadn't cared for their wrestling before, and now that they've raised their game by wrestling two of the finest workers in the company, they've certainly got over with me. Lest we forget, Bray is the leader of this stable and it's him that they're most trying to get over, and he didn't get his ass kicked, he took one unexpected top-rope move.
This wasn't a burial.
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone.
Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 24,170
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Post by Bo Rida on Nov 25, 2013 9:34:20 GMT -5
The tag-team part of The Wyatt family looking like semi-credible threats against two of the top stars in the company is a notable step-up from the three of them looking like bumbling idiots against Kane.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
Posts: 46,852
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Nov 25, 2013 10:57:45 GMT -5
It's baffling why WWE insists on pushing a proven failure as a draw, Punk, as a top star. The kid does not have the look or charisma to capture the attention of the mainstream audience. He needs to be de-pushed. It's (literally) what's best for business. "Kid"? Dude's just about the same age as Cena. |
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Hawk Hart
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Sold his organs.
The Best There Is, the Best There Was, and the Best That There Ever Will Be
Posts: 15,296
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Post by Hawk Hart on Nov 25, 2013 11:00:55 GMT -5
There's a way to beat someone and still make them look like a threat without having them beat two established main eventers in a match that had two weeks of hype. That's what happened, we're just wrapping up act one of this feud, there's always a chance for the Wyatts to get a big moment to shine.
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Post by Bootista on Nov 25, 2013 11:09:54 GMT -5
It's baffling why WWE insists on pushing a proven failure as a draw, Punk, as a top star. The kid does not have the look or charisma to capture the attention of the mainstream audience. He needs to be de-pushed. It's (literally) what's best for business. And a loser like Miz being Champion was best for Business?  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2013 12:22:27 GMT -5
This thread is funny. Punk is one of the few guys people like where people buy his merch.
Hell I see a good amount of people out and about in town wearing his shit, not just wrestling shows on TV.
As for having charisma, I think Punk is #1 in the company in charisma. ABOVE Cena. ABOVE Bryan. Not by just a little bit either. This is the guy that could slowly mutilate a live kitten in the ring for 15 minutes and get a CM Punk chant. Hell it's a board meme that Punk gets cheered while doing the worst things possible.
Also, while we're in this thread arguing about it, the guy is probably getting a blow from girls we're busy posting in the diva gifs thread.
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Professor Chaos
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bringer of Destruction and Maker of Doom
Posts: 16,332
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Post by Professor Chaos on Nov 25, 2013 12:47:00 GMT -5
This has been the worst year of CM Punk's life so what meme?
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