Malcolm
Grimlock
Wanted something done about the color of his ring.
May contain ADHD
Posts: 13,505
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Post by Malcolm on Nov 25, 2013 12:55:07 GMT -5
It's baffling why WWE insists on pushing a proven failure as a draw, Punk, as a top star. The kid does not have the look or charisma to capture the attention of the mainstream audience. He needs to be de-pushed. It's (literally) what's best for business. I'm probably one of the biggest Punk haters around, but even I wouldn't say something like this. Except for the "he needs to to be de-pushed" part, but that's for personal reasons.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Nov 25, 2013 13:16:05 GMT -5
It's baffling why WWE insists on pushing a proven failure as a draw, Punk, as a top star. The kid does not have the look or charisma to capture the attention of the mainstream audience. He needs to be de-pushed. It's (literally) what's best for business. And a loser like Miz being Champion was best for Business? Yes it was.
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Post by sportatorium on Nov 25, 2013 13:49:33 GMT -5
The Wyatt family could get their heat back tonight without much besides a good beatdown. Same as Punk losing to Brock earlier this year.
Punk can get an entire arena chanting his name by, as the busted open guys say- flapping his arms. He's going to be booked strong. He's also a guy that they can plug right into the main event as face or heel whenever needed. Wouldn't make a ton of sense to start de pushing him. He doesn't need the belt to get over & can make people's ok great without diminishing himself.
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Post by The Man They Call Asher on Nov 25, 2013 15:01:22 GMT -5
It's baffling why WWE insists on pushing a proven failure as a draw, Punk, as a top star. The kid does not have the look or charisma to capture the attention of the mainstream audience. He needs to be de-pushed. It's (literally) what's best for business.
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Nov 25, 2013 15:03:57 GMT -5
I love Punk. It's funny because the age old "Cena Wins" meme is still out there. But, it's kinda become the deal with Punk as well. How did losing to Punk & Bryan benefit the Wyatts? Look where a few Punk feuds got Ryback... Punk's been on a steamroller for 2+ years. I'm not whining or complaining, but I think it's funny that Punk doesn't have the same "Wins"-meme worthy tag that Cena has. There's truth to that, but Cena's initial push was wanted, but it feel flat to a large portion of the fanbase. Then they pushed him into OVERDRIVE. Cena's push will always come off as more forced than Punk's.
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Post by Capt. Internet Darling on Nov 25, 2013 15:10:18 GMT -5
This is where I post: but Cena wasn't in the INDIEZZZ On a more serious note, am I the only one who sees him as being really half-hearted in taking part in the 'Yes' chants? He WASN'T doing the Yes chants, which I think is the point. Punk probably doesn't want to resort to using it, like Sheamus and Big Show have in the past.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Nov 25, 2013 15:15:50 GMT -5
As for having charisma, I think Punk is #1 in the company in charisma. ABOVE Cena. ABOVE Bryan. Not by just a little bit either. This is the guy that could slowly mutilate a live kitten in the ring for 15 minutes and get a CM Punk chant. Hell it's a board meme that Punk gets cheered while doing the worst things possible. That's a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig stretch, IMO. Not to say Bryan and Punk are uncharismatic by any means, but I think it's pretty obvious Cena is a step above both in terms of overall magnetism, acting ability and use of his voice. The only reason Cena hasn't gotten more unanimous responses is because WWE keeps egging on his hatedom (obvious anti-Cena plants, purposely feeding him divisive lines in the script, having other faces accuse him of being a phoney, etc). There's no opportunity for him to get over in a more decisive manner the way Punk does, even though he's clearly capable of it.
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Nov 25, 2013 15:18:18 GMT -5
As for having charisma, I think Punk is #1 in the company in charisma. ABOVE Cena. ABOVE Bryan. Not by just a little bit either. This is the guy that could slowly mutilate a live kitten in the ring for 15 minutes and get a CM Punk chant. Hell it's a board meme that Punk gets cheered while doing the worst things possible. That's a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig stretch, IMO. Not to say Bryan and Punk are uncharismatic by any means, but I think it's pretty obvious Cena is a step above both in terms of overall magnetism, acting ability and use of his voice. I'm no Cena-hater, but he's never said a thing that came off as "real" to me. He's probably a step over in magnetism, but not a step over in either acting ability or the use of his voice. He has two modes: laid back funny and SERIOUS.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Nov 25, 2013 15:20:54 GMT -5
That's a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig stretch, IMO. Not to say Bryan and Punk are uncharismatic by any means, but I think it's pretty obvious Cena is a step above both in terms of overall magnetism, acting ability and use of his voice. I'm no Cena-hater, but he's never said a thing that came off as "real" to me. He's probably a step over in magnetism, but not a step over in either acting ability or the use of his voice. He has two modes: laid back funny and SERIOUS. That's all a wrestler really needs. I don't see what's more "real" about Punk, either. We're basically comparing a prefab superhero to a prefab rebel.
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Nov 25, 2013 15:26:43 GMT -5
I'm no Cena-hater, but he's never said a thing that came off as "real" to me. He's probably a step over in magnetism, but not a step over in either acting ability or the use of his voice. He has two modes: laid back funny and SERIOUS. That's all a wrestler really needs. I don't see what's more "real" about Punk, either. We're basically comparing a prefab superhero to a prefab rebel. You may only need two modes--even that's debatable--but Cena doesn't even transition from those modes in any believable fashion. He's the guy who will smile about losing and then, on a different day, cut a serious I. AM. BADASS. promo for no real reason. When CM Punk transitions tones he does so in a more steady, believable fashion. CM Punk's famous promo was very belivable--more believable than any promo Cena's done and that's not a knock at Cena's skills. I just think CM Punk is better. You told us what you thought was obvious so I said what I thought was obvious--just a difference of opinion.
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Post by The Masked Heel WAS WRONG on Nov 25, 2013 15:29:05 GMT -5
No one is a "credible draw" outside of Cena. Cena's absence doesn't have a negative effect on ratings, which has also been proven. We can then infer that Cena doesn't have a positive effect on ratings since the opposite is a proven fact. He moves merchandise, but no one looks good after a feud with him, because they are just shown to not be on his level. We can do this with anyone, because WWE's model is one guy on top, and everyone else in a heap somewhere else. It's not the model they've always used, because up until WCW disappeared, their midcard guys mattered and could easily main event programs and then shift back to the midcard but maintain their importance and drawing ability. Today no one can do that. If they're not currently in the main event, and treated as "the focus of the show", then they mean nothing at all. We can delude ourselves, but outside of maybe 3 guys, no one gets the "where's Poochie" treatment. Those three are Orton, Cena, and Triple H. Orton is more of a ratings killer than Punk, Bryan, Shamus, or anyone else. For almost a decade, when he's on top people change the channel. Smackdown's ratings prove this fact. Yet they push him. I figure as long as they insist a legend(ary) ratings killer can be pushed, the argument of "this guy doesn't draw" for anyone else loses a lot of steam. So you can prove that people didn't watch the shows because of Orton? That's right, you can't.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Nov 25, 2013 17:13:19 GMT -5
This is where I post: but Cena wasn't in the INDIEZZZ On a more serious note, am I the only one who sees him as being really half-hearted in taking part in the 'Yes' chants? He WASN'T doing the Yes chants, which I think is the point. Punk probably doesn't want to resort to using it, like Sheamus and Big Show have in the past. then he doesn't want to have fun with the audience which is dumb
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2013 17:21:09 GMT -5
As for having charisma, I think Punk is #1 in the company in charisma. ABOVE Cena. ABOVE Bryan. Not by just a little bit either. This is the guy that could slowly mutilate a live kitten in the ring for 15 minutes and get a CM Punk chant. Hell it's a board meme that Punk gets cheered while doing the worst things possible. That's a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig stretch, IMO. Not to say Bryan and Punk are uncharismatic by any means, but I think it's pretty obvious Cena is a step above both in terms of overall magnetism, acting ability and use of his voice. The only reason Cena hasn't gotten more unanimous responses is because WWE keeps egging on his hatedom (obvious anti-Cena plants, purposely feeding him divisive lines in the script, having other faces accuse him of being a phoney, etc). There's no opportunity for him to get over in a more decisive manner the way Punk does, even though he's clearly capable of it. Tricky stuff when it comes to Punk vs Cena. I don't know shit regarding numbers so I can't prove anything, I'm just a guy on a message board. But lets face it, Punk makes the WWE alot of money.
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Post by angryfan on Nov 25, 2013 17:23:54 GMT -5
No one is a "credible draw" outside of Cena. Cena's absence doesn't have a negative effect on ratings, which has also been proven. We can then infer that Cena doesn't have a positive effect on ratings since the opposite is a proven fact. He moves merchandise, but no one looks good after a feud with him, because they are just shown to not be on his level. We can do this with anyone, because WWE's model is one guy on top, and everyone else in a heap somewhere else. It's not the model they've always used, because up until WCW disappeared, their midcard guys mattered and could easily main event programs and then shift back to the midcard but maintain their importance and drawing ability. Today no one can do that. If they're not currently in the main event, and treated as "the focus of the show", then they mean nothing at all. We can delude ourselves, but outside of maybe 3 guys, no one gets the "where's Poochie" treatment. Those three are Orton, Cena, and Triple H. Orton is more of a ratings killer than Punk, Bryan, Shamus, or anyone else. For almost a decade, when he's on top people change the channel. Smackdown's ratings prove this fact. Yet they push him. I figure as long as they insist a legend(ary) ratings killer can be pushed, the argument of "this guy doesn't draw" for anyone else loses a lot of steam. So you can prove that people didn't watch the shows because of Orton? That's right, you can't. Coloration. Punk is champion and ratings go down "Punks' not a draw". Low PPV buyrate for one D-Bry main events?=No one cares about him, we need someone established. Low ratings back when Eddie or Edge or Jericho was on top? =vanilla midgets can't draw". Orton was on top on SD for ages, and whenever he had the belt, ratings dropped. Thus, by WWE logic, Orton isn't a draw.
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Nov 25, 2013 20:31:59 GMT -5
This is where I post: but Cena wasn't in the INDIEZZZ On a more serious note, am I the only one who sees him as being really half-hearted in taking part in the 'Yes' chants? He WASN'T doing the Yes chants, which I think is the point. Punk probably doesn't want to resort to using it, like Sheamus and Big Show have in the past. Oh he was raising his hands up in time with Bryan ... just very halfhearted about it. He doesn't like being second banana.
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Post by Ape Boy on Nov 25, 2013 23:06:06 GMT -5
I'm sitting here laughing at the claim that Phil Brooks is more charismatic than John Cena. That claim is so absurd that I can only assume those making it are stating it in a satirical and/or sarcastic manner. They cannot be serious; it simply does not compute.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Nov 25, 2013 23:23:45 GMT -5
No one is a "credible draw" outside of Cena. Cena's absence doesn't have a negative effect on ratings, which has also been proven. We can then infer that Cena doesn't have a positive effect on ratings since the opposite is a proven fact. He moves merchandise, but no one looks good after a feud with him, because they are just shown to not be on his level. We can do this with anyone, because WWE's model is one guy on top, and everyone else in a heap somewhere else. It's not the model they've always used, because up until WCW disappeared, their midcard guys mattered and could easily main event programs and then shift back to the midcard but maintain their importance and drawing ability. Today no one can do that. If they're not currently in the main event, and treated as "the focus of the show", then they mean nothing at all. We can delude ourselves, but outside of maybe 3 guys, no one gets the "where's Poochie" treatment. Those three are Orton, Cena, and Triple H. Orton is more of a ratings killer than Punk, Bryan, Shamus, or anyone else. For almost a decade, when he's on top people change the channel. Smackdown's ratings prove this fact. Yet they push him. I figure as long as they insist a legend(ary) ratings killer can be pushed, the argument of "this guy doesn't draw" for anyone else loses a lot of steam. So you can prove that people didn't watch the shows because of Orton? That's right, you can't. The only evidence is looking at his quarter hour ratings and comparing them to those who have also held the belt. There's always significant drop offs when he's champion, and spikes when he loses it. Its not an absolute science, but it's all we have --and WWE has--to gauge him on. For example, Mark Henry drew the highest SD quarter hours as Champion since Rey was Champ in 2006. Which leads credence to the belief that like Rey with the Hispanic market, Henry is very appealing to the much less catered to African American market. Orton is very popular in arenas, but it hasn't really translated to PPV or TV numbers. But hey, not everyone does. Wrestling fans, on a whole, are a weird, fickle bunch.
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Chip
Hank Scorpio
Slam Jam Death.
Posts: 5,185
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Post by Chip on Nov 25, 2013 23:35:39 GMT -5
I'm sitting here laughing at the claim that Phil Brooks is more charismatic than John Cena. That claim is so absurd that I can only assume those making it are stating it in a satirical and/or sarcastic manner. They cannot be serious; it simply does not compute. ....... I really hope you are using "Phil Brooks" in a satirical and/or sarcastic manner. You cannot be serious; it simply does not compute.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2013 23:52:29 GMT -5
Regardless of whether you think dude is trolling or not, I gotta agree that Punk being more charismatic than Cena is not even close to being true.
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Post by sybaku on Nov 26, 2013 7:37:14 GMT -5
Regardless of whether you think dude is trolling or not, I gotta agree that Punk being more charismatic than Cena is not even close to being true. Dude is trolling for sure but I agree with you Punks charismatic no doubt but Cena is on a different level whether people want to admit it.
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