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Post by Dave the Dave on Nov 27, 2013 22:19:26 GMT -5
Even if she kept the title there should be some sort of catharsis. You just call someone fat and ugly then kick their ass and....continue to be a shit? That's not even a story at that point. AJ is over but Kaitlyn could have gotten even more over if they tried AT ALL. And if AJ being most over means she keeps the belt, Bryan should have been champ for the last 3 months. Kaitlyn speared AJ on a weekly basis, and AJ lost most of her non-title matches. Then she ended up having every diva in the locker room, aside from Tamina, hate her. Not to mention Kaitlyn already had a lengthy title reign before feuding with AJ. What more comeuppance did AJ need? Have Kaitlyn beat AJ in every title defense, to the point where she starts looking like a joke? And this was AJ's first real storyline with another diva, so she had to win the feud. Well now Kaitlyn is a joke. Even if you win some battles, the shitty heel won the war. And now she doesn't matter as much and AJ is still the focal point. So yes, she should have lost the feud. The only good that came was the most over diva staying over. Nothing else happened.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Nov 27, 2013 22:23:24 GMT -5
Kaitlyn speared AJ on a weekly basis, and AJ lost most of her non-title matches. Then she ended up having every diva in the locker room, aside from Tamina, hate her. Not to mention Kaitlyn already had a lengthy title reign before feuding with AJ. What more comeuppance did AJ need? Have Kaitlyn beat AJ in every title defense, to the point where she starts looking like a joke? And this was AJ's first real storyline with another diva, so she had to win the feud. Well now Kaitlyn is a joke. Even if you win some battles, the shitty heel won the war. And now she doesn't matter as much and AJ is still the focal point. So yes, she should have lost the feud. The only good that came was the most over diva staying over. Nothing else happened. The divas champion should be the focal point of the division. I don't see the problem with that. And the only way for Kaitlyn to win the feud would be to win back the title, which would have been a dumb move. To me, it sounds like you just don't like AJ, rather than thinking it was a badly booked feud.
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Post by Hit Girl on Nov 27, 2013 22:25:23 GMT -5
If they want to get the best out of DB's merchandise potential, I recommend that they focus on that dragon logo that he uses. It looks cool, and they can release a new line of merchandise ever so often by changing his signature colours like they do with Cena. I took a look at his Shopzone page, and quite frankly it's shit. They focus so much on goat references (which have never and will never get over), and references to his beard (which is an obstacle IMO to him being "a" face of the company, because he looks so weird. Even trimming the beard would be an improvement. Unless his gimmick is Amish, it makes no damn sense. Guys I think are more likely to wear dragon-related merchandise than some shit featuring goats and beards.
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Sparkybob
King Koopa
I have a status?
Posts: 11,003
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Post by Sparkybob on Nov 27, 2013 22:27:07 GMT -5
Kaitlyn speared AJ on a weekly basis, and AJ lost most of her non-title matches. Then she ended up having every diva in the locker room, aside from Tamina, hate her. Not to mention Kaitlyn already had a lengthy title reign before feuding with AJ. What more comeuppance did AJ need? Have Kaitlyn beat AJ in every title defense, to the point where she starts looking like a joke? And this was AJ's first real storyline with another diva, so she had to win the feud. Well now Kaitlyn is a joke. Even if you win some battles, the shitty heel won the war. And now she doesn't matter as much and AJ is still the focal point. So yes, she should have lost the feud. The only good that came was the most over diva staying over. Nothing else happened. But Kaitlyn won the blow off match at SS. And the feud did benefit Kaitlyn because she started to get more over due to her interaction with AJ. It's not like AJ was using some creative control to bury Kaitlyn after the program, it was more that the WWE had a hard-on to push this total diva stuff into the main divas title feud and Kaitlyn got left out to dry.
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Post by Dave the Dave on Nov 27, 2013 22:28:00 GMT -5
Well now Kaitlyn is a joke. Even if you win some battles, the shitty heel won the war. And now she doesn't matter as much and AJ is still the focal point. So yes, she should have lost the feud. The only good that came was the most over diva staying over. Nothing else happened. The divas champion should be the focal point of the division. I don't see the problem with that. And the only way for Kaitlyn to win the feud would be to win back the title, which would have been a dumb move. To me, it sounds like you just don't like AJ, rather than thinking it was a badly booked feud. Why does it sound that way? I'll give you straws man, no need to grasp at them. It doesn't make sense for someone to be awful and ultimately get what they want. The good guy wins in the end. That's the whole idea. She still might I guess but it seems unlikely. When HHH acted racist towards Booker but still won their feud it sucked. Bad guys should lose. You totally just hate Kaitlyn since we disagree right?
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Post by Friday Night SmackOwn on Nov 27, 2013 22:28:24 GMT -5
They need to use the dragon motif for Bryan's merchandise instead of forcing the whole "Goat Face" thing on us. Just think how cool it would be if he had a "YES! YES! YES!" shirt with an awesome dragon design to go with it.
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Post by Dave the Dave on Nov 27, 2013 22:29:53 GMT -5
Well now Kaitlyn is a joke. Even if you win some battles, the shitty heel won the war. And now she doesn't matter as much and AJ is still the focal point. So yes, she should have lost the feud. The only good that came was the most over diva staying over. Nothing else happened. But Kaitlyn won the blow off match at SS. And the feud did benefit Kaitlyn because she started to get more over due to her interaction with AJ. It's not like AJ was using some creative control to bury Kaitlyn after the program, it was more that the WWE had a hard-on to push this total diva stuff into the main divas title feud and Kaitlyn got left out to dry. It didn't seem to benefit her though in the long run and I never said any of this was AJ's fault. It just is a bad job of story telling to me.
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Nov 27, 2013 22:32:16 GMT -5
Well now Kaitlyn is a joke. Even if you win some battles, the shitty heel won the war. And now she doesn't matter as much and AJ is still the focal point. So yes, she should have lost the feud. The only good that came was the most over diva staying over. Nothing else happened. The divas champion should be the focal point of the division. I don't see the problem with that. And the only way for Kaitlyn to win the feud would be to win back the title, which would have been a dumb move. To me, it sounds like you just don't like AJ, rather than thinking it was a badly booked feud. And even if Kaitlyn won the feud, she'd still have the same issue AJ has. Those two being the only two Divas who can put together a program the crowd gives a crap about. Besides Kaitlyn and AJ, no one cares about the others. So when you put either Kaityln or AJ versus this Total Divas stuff, it's just gonna come off as boring as sin. It's not really and AJ or a Kaitlyn thing, it's more the Division sucks but those two and they won't call up any of the girls from NXT for some odd reason.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Nov 27, 2013 22:33:12 GMT -5
To you. Luckily, to all the tens of thousands that vastly outnumber you, your opinion on star power is statistically insignificant and will never matter. Yeah the tens of thousands that outnumber me, not counting the millions who remain quiet on their opinion of pro wrestling and are the only people that matter when pleasing. I like Daniel Bryan, but I like to consider myself a blend of casual and smart fan. There's certain things that I personally look for in a guy for me to enjoy and a lot of the time, I'll enjoy a lot of people that others don't care for and vice versa. The casual side in me doesn't care about Daniel Bryan right now because he's just a generic dweeb who's a good wrestler. Considering what the ratings have been in between Cena's leave and return, I wouldn't be surprised if the casual majority also feels this way about the guy similar to Zack Ryder and CM Punk, two others who had live crowds loving them but not moving business. Yes you can tell me story all you want, but the authority stuff outside of the main events at pay-per-views was going fine up until recently. But nobody who isn't Cena is a consistent ratings draw and even then, Cena's drawing power in that regard is a bit questionable. It is 2013. There is no such thing as a "traditional draw" in WWE outside of Cena and special attractions. WWE's brand name is the draw. Should we just have Cena be the guy forever? If the live crowds love Bryan, something is there and it's worth giving the guy a chance.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Nov 27, 2013 22:37:41 GMT -5
The divas champion should be the focal point of the division. I don't see the problem with that. And the only way for Kaitlyn to win the feud would be to win back the title, which would have been a dumb move. To me, it sounds like you just don't like AJ, rather than thinking it was a badly booked feud. Why does it sound that way? I'll give you straws man, no need to grasp at them. It doesn't make sense for someone to be awful and ultimately get what they want. The good guy wins in the end. That's the whole idea. She still might I guess but it seems unlikely. When HHH acted racist towards Booker but still won their feud it sucked. Bad guys should lose. You totally just hate Kaitlyn since we disagree right? Bad guys can't always lose, or else how do they get a title regin? You still haven't explained this to me. What do you want, for Kaitlyn to win every single feud she's ever in, as long as she's a face? Should AJ never get a title reign, as long as she's a heel? How is this any better, booking wise?
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Post by Dave the Dave on Nov 27, 2013 22:37:52 GMT -5
The divas champion should be the focal point of the division. I don't see the problem with that. And the only way for Kaitlyn to win the feud would be to win back the title, which would have been a dumb move. To me, it sounds like you just don't like AJ, rather than thinking it was a badly booked feud. And even if Kaitlyn won the feud, she'd still have the same issue AJ has. Those two being the only two Divas who can put together a program the crowd gives a crap about. Besides Kaitlyn and AJ, no one cares about the others. So when you put either Kaityln or AJ versus this Total Divas stuff, it's just gonna come off as boring as sin. It's not really and AJ or a Kaitlyn thing, it's more the Division sucks but those two and they won't call up any of the girls from NXT for some odd reason. That's true. My issue is a lot with the division and AJ is on top so she probably takes the brunt of my frustration. Even if we disagree, the fact that no one's looks came up makes me happy. I want talent on the division because I know women's wrestling can be good. I'm done derailing the topic though, sorry.
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Chip
Hank Scorpio
Slam Jam Death.
Posts: 5,185
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Post by Chip on Nov 27, 2013 22:43:32 GMT -5
The super over most amazing bestest wrestler in the world currently has the 10th best selling T-shirt behind CM Punk, Orton, Cena, Usos, Wyatts, and Rey Mysterio. Bryan has audience participation down and can pop a chant, I'm not convinced he can draw money. Is that all time sales or just best sales of the month/week? If the latter, I wouldn't be shocked if everyone just owns a Bryan shirt already, he strangely doesn't get all that many.
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Post by Dave the Dave on Nov 27, 2013 22:44:43 GMT -5
Why does it sound tlhat way? I'll give you straws man, no need to grasp at them. It doesn't make sense for someone to be awful and ultimately get what they want. The good guy wins in the end. That's the whole idea. She still might I guess but it seems unlikely. When HHH acted racist towards Booker but still won their feud it sucked. Bad guys should lose. You totally just hate Kaitlyn since we disagree right? Bad guys can't always lose, or else how do they get a title regin? You still haven't explained this to me. What do you want, for Kaitlyn to win every single feud she's ever in, as long as she's a face? Should AJ never get a title reign, as long as she's a heel? How is this any better, booking wise? Okay sorry. One last response OP. To get back on track. Orton (or AJ) can have a reign. But it makes sense for the person they wronged the most to beat them to have the most satisfying conclusion. That's kind of why people are mad Cena might beat Orton compared to Bryan doing it. It doesn't have the same feeling. If Brie or Nattie beats AJ, that's catharsis but it doesn't hold the most emotional end. If Kaitlyn cycles back around and gets revenge, I'm wrong in my thought process. If not, AJ told us she sucked and was right. So who cares about Kaitlyn? If Cena wins, woo Orton is defeated. But the guy he screwed is fighting some other people and that story is left unconcluded.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Nov 27, 2013 22:54:51 GMT -5
Bad guys can't always lose, or else how do they get a title regin? You still haven't explained this to me. What do you want, for Kaitlyn to win every single feud she's ever in, as long as she's a face? Should AJ never get a title reign, as long as she's a heel? How is this any better, booking wise? Okay sorry. One last response OP. To get back on track. Orton (or AJ) can have a reign. But it makes sense for the person they wronged the most to beat them to have the most satisfying conclusion. That's kind of why people are mad Cena might beat Orton compared to Bryan doing it. It doesn't have the same feeling. If Brie or Nattie beats AJ, that's catharsis but it doesn't hold the most emotional end. If Kaitlyn cycles back around and gets revenge, I'm wrong in my thought process. If not, AJ told us she sucked and was right. So who cares about Kaitlyn? If Cena wins, woo Orton is defeated. But the guy he screwed is fighting some other people and that story is left unconcluded. See the thing is, you're trying to compare that storyline to this Bryan/Orton one. Kaitlyn already had a lengthy title reign before she lost it, while Bryan got 2 title reigns totaling less than a day. Kaityn can afford to take the loss. Bryan can't. Not to mention, it takes a lot more effort to build someone up to the main event level, compared to the top of the divas division. The situations are completely different. And Kaitlyn doesn't need revenge to end the storyline. AJ called her a bunch of immature names, and Kaityn speared the shit out of her in return. That's all the story needed to tell. And you're kind of missing the point if you thought that AJ proved that Kaitlyn sucked. AJ won because she got into Kaitlyn's head, and used her brains to win. Kaitlyn didn't lose because she was made out to look like the inferior wrestler.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Nov 27, 2013 22:55:43 GMT -5
Bad guys can't always lose, or else how do they get a title regin? You still haven't explained this to me. What do you want, for Kaitlyn to win every single feud she's ever in, as long as she's a face? Should AJ never get a title reign, as long as she's a heel? How is this any better, booking wise? Okay sorry. One last response OP. To get back on track. Orton (or AJ) can have a reign. But it makes sense for the person they wronged the most to beat them to have the most satisfying conclusion. That's kind of why people are mad Cena might beat Orton compared to Bryan doing it. It doesn't have the same feeling. If Brie or Nattie beats AJ, that's catharsis but it doesn't hold the most emotional end. If Kaitlyn cycles back around and gets revenge, I'm wrong in my thought process. If not, AJ told us she sucked and was right. So who cares about Kaitlyn? If Cena wins, woo Orton is defeated. But the guy he screwed is fighting some other people and that story is left unconcluded. I know that I was upset over Bryan not getting his shot before, but really I'm really not too upset over Cena winning the title because I'd like to hope that it would ultimately serve a greater purpose in putting over Bryan down the line. Cena unifying the belts doesn't necessarily mean that the storyline is over. The primary villain is HHH/Steph, not Orton. Some have even said that Orton is being marginalized in the event of a possible third Wellness Violation. Any random face winning the title doesn't means that HHH and Steph disappear from TV without a chance at Bryan getting one over on them. I'm hoping that if Cena unifies the belts, he boldly defies the Authority by saying he'll give Bryan the rightful opportunity that he was screwed out of. Because HHH and Steph don't want Bryan to be champion (and they don't really like Cena anyway), they'll deny his request to choose his contender and Bryan is forced to enter the Royal Rumble. Bryan can win the Rumble (maybe even have him enter at #1), challenge Cena at Mania for the Unified Title, and Bryan can go over again. Just take out the Real Wrestler vs. Entertainer stuff this time and make it John Cena and Daniel Bryan vs. The World (Wrestling Entertainment), two fan favorites who want nothing more than to put on a "dream match" for the fans with their only obstacle being the Authority.
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Post by Dave the Dave on Nov 27, 2013 22:58:31 GMT -5
Okay sorry. One last response OP.o To get back on track. Orton (or AJ) can have a reign. But it makes sense for the person they wronged the most to beat them to have the most satisfying conclusion. That's kind of why people are mad Cena might beat Orton compared to Bryan doing it. It doesn't have the same feeling. If Brie or Nattie beats AJ, that's catharsis but it doesn't hold the most emotional end. If Kaitlyn cycles back around and gets revenge, I'm wrong in my thought process. If not, AJ told us she sucked and was right. So who cares about Kaitlyn? If Cena wins, woo Orton is defeated. But the guy he screwed is fighting some other people and that story is left unconcluded. See the thing is, you're trying to compare that storyline to this Bryan/Orton one. Kaitlyn already had a lengthy title reign before she lost it, while Bryan got 2 title reigns totaling less than a day. Kaityn can afford to take the loss. Bryan can't. Not to mention, it takes a lot more effort to build someone up to the main event level, compared to the top of the divas division. The situations are completely different. And Kaitlyn doesn't need revenge to end the storyline. AJ called her a bunch of immature names, and Kaityn speared the shit out of her in return. That's all the story needed to tell. And you're kind of missing the point if you thought that AJ proved that Kaitlyn sucked. AJ won because she got into Kaitlyn's head, and used her brains to win. Kaitlyn didn't lose because she was made out to look like the inferior wrestler. Well it's coming down to saying the situations are different cause they're divas and it shouldn't take as much effort? I dont know how outsmarting her and keeping the belt doesn't prove Kaitlyn isn't good, but I'm willing to move forward in disagreement. I think the state of the division now is worse so I can stop being agitated at the past.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Nov 27, 2013 23:11:37 GMT -5
See the thing is, you're trying to compare that storyline to this Bryan/Orton one. Kaitlyn already had a lengthy title reign before she lost it, while Bryan got 2 title reigns totaling less than a day. Kaityn can afford to take the loss. Bryan can't. Not to mention, it takes a lot more effort to build someone up to the main event level, compared to the top of the divas division. The situations are completely different. And Kaitlyn doesn't need revenge to end the storyline. AJ called her a bunch of immature names, and Kaityn speared the shit out of her in return. That's all the story needed to tell. And you're kind of missing the point if you thought that AJ proved that Kaitlyn sucked. AJ won because she got into Kaitlyn's head, and used her brains to win. Kaitlyn didn't lose because she was made out to look like the inferior wrestler. Well it's coming down to saying the situations are different cause they're divas and it shouldn't take as much effort? I dont know how outsmarting her and keeping the belt doesn't prove Kaitlyn isn't good, but I'm willing to move forward in disagreement. I think the state of the division now is worse so I can stop being agitated at the past. Did you completely not read the part where I said Kaitlyn already got a lengthy title reign, where Bryan didn't? And also, are you really going to try and argue that the divas division should be on the same level as the main event? And if taking the belt off Kaityln is somehow proof that she isn't good, then doesn't that mean that every wrestler that's ever lost a title sucks as well?
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Post by Dave the Dave on Nov 27, 2013 23:19:56 GMT -5
Well it's coming down to saying the situations are different cause they're divas and it shouldn't take as much effort? I dont know how outsmarting her and keeping the belt doesn't prove Kaitlyn isn't good, but I'm willing to move forward in disagreement. I think the state of the division now is worse so I can stop being agitated at the past. Did you completely not read the part where I said Kaitlyn already got a lengthy title reign, where Bryan didn't? And also, are you really going to try and argue that the divas division should be on the same level as the main event? And if taking the belt off Kaityln is somehow proof that she isn't good, then doesn't that mean that every wrestler that's ever lost a title sucks as well? Nope. No it doesn't. I'm not sure why you keep generalizing. I'm saying in that feud it did t work. And I did read what you said. Like most of the back in forth, I don't agree with you. The division should make sense even if it's not the most important.
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Crimson
Hank Scorpio
Thank you DWade
Posts: 6,511
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Post by Crimson on Nov 27, 2013 23:24:33 GMT -5
My problem with the whole "Face of the Company" argument" is over the years, how many people actually legitimately held the distinction of being "the guy?"
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Post by Hit Girl on Nov 27, 2013 23:31:52 GMT -5
My problem with the whole "Face of the Company" argument" is over the years, how many people actually legitimately held the distinction of being "the guy?" A very small number. My problem with the Face of the Company storyline is that the heels repeatedly said that the face wasn't up to that level, then booked themselves to be correct So I don't see the point or endgame of the story. By all logic, the face should have been booked to prove them wrong. He already had fan support. That's the hard part accomplished. All they needed to do was give the fans what they wanted.
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