Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2013 23:28:10 GMT -5
There's a difference between losing matches and being a loser who loses matches. Kofi Kingston is the former. He loses all the time, but he's certainly not treated as a loser by WWE since he's the go-to midcard babyface filler title holder guy. WWE booked Zack Ryder as the latter, because he got his ass kicked repeatedly by Kane, Eve Torres, and Jack Swagger and then he basically disappeared from being on Raw, the only show WWE really treats as being worthwhile, on even a semi-regular basis. so basically you don't want to try it. I will cheer anyone who behaves in a manner I like How are you supposed to cheer him if he's never on TV ever? That's the point, they took someone who was over and actively reduced him to nothing, took away his fans' chance to even cheer for their guy. I guess he's on Superstars or something, but there's 7 hours of programming a week (yes including NXT) that is higher priority right now.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2013 23:32:45 GMT -5
I think the big problem is that this is such a legitimate question that it can spur 10 pages of conversation.
That's seriously awful. That it has pluses and minuses to considering it that it can go this far.
Yeah in reality, no they don't. I know they don't. They've done enough for me to know better. But the fact that it feels like they're making fun of you for watching through multiple PPVs kinda sucks.
|
|
|
Post by Hit Girl on Nov 28, 2013 23:35:34 GMT -5
Being a integral part of a smaller thing is probably better than an unnecessary part in a bigger thing. there are other people who feel differently. Yes, they are called "WWE creative" Unfortunately.
|
|
|
Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Nov 29, 2013 0:44:37 GMT -5
The clear answer? No, the WWE doesn't resent its fans. The WWE resents its WRESTLERS, because it's willing to place their careers into the hands of a bunch of fickle idiots, and it's gone out of its way to communicate to those fickle idiots that they completely have that power.
It's actually brilliant. We're never supplying feedback directly to the decisions made by someone like Vince McMahon. We're always supplying feedback to whatever performer is out there doing what Vince McMahon told him to do. The only time people get mad at Vince is when he doesn't tell someone we like what to do. It's this amazing strategy of putting a shield up between the company and criticism: we're always criticizing the performers first.
|
|
|
Post by Hit Girl on Nov 29, 2013 1:03:46 GMT -5
Part of the problem is that either WWE writers tailor the product mainly to suit Vince, or that he alters their work in a way that will please him.
I think a lot of stuff in WWE is simply done for his amusement. Even it's detrimental to careers, the overall product, or completely lost on the audience, if it makes Vince laugh, or validates his weird view of the world, it makes it to the air.
|
|
|
Post by Old Jack Burton on Nov 29, 2013 1:23:20 GMT -5
WWE resents certain crowds... They'll prefer crowds which have the expected reactions and react loudly. Any international crowd work here. They don't particularly care for areas that don't react that much, as long as they pop for the main eventers. This is basically Anytown, USA; outside the big wrestling markets. They probably don't like "smart" crowds.(See, Orton/Cena/Nipple H promo on monday) They hate running in Toronto. Backward contrarian f***s... but running big stadium shows there is no problem, the locals get buried by tourists. They REALLY hate running in Montreal. Smart, contrarian, vulgar, French-chanting crowd which WILL start to get rumbunctious if they get bored. Which usually happens by the time the first promo is happening, or the first diva match. Then, all bets are off, crowd reactions get completely random! Plus, you have a solid 20% of the audience that are either workers for local promotions or diehard fans of those promotions who pretty much are there to f*** with the show. Running Montreal is a guarantee to produce a memorable show, there has never been a boring TV show in Montreal. But they can't control it, they don't understand it, so they run TV here once every two or three year when they feel like having a bizzaro episode of RAW, which has become their way of telling the TV audience "Hmmmm... don't follow after these people okay?" While Toronto just tries to be smart, Montreal is actively HOSTILE to the WWE and WILL pay tickets for the privilege to mess with them. I think WWE loves Montreal, and they make sure not to visit too often in order to not spoil the atmosphere when they have a show. Yes, they know the audience will be especially wild and contrary, but they book appropriately. Same goes for Chicago, to a point. Speaking of AJ, the fans don't want to boo her. Why don't they just turn her face, especially after her fainting a few weeks ago. But she is a face. She represents the ideals of the majority of the audience, and they wildly cheer her for it. What is that but a face? Do you want her to start gushing about loving video games and making goofy jokes? How boring.
|
|
mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
|
Post by mrjl on Nov 29, 2013 16:49:49 GMT -5
there are other people who feel differently. Yes, they are called "WWE creative" Unfortunately. WWE creative puts former world or WWE champs in IC title feuds, it's not creative that decides the IC title is beneath them.
|
|
|
Post by Hit Girl on Nov 29, 2013 16:51:25 GMT -5
Yes, they are called "WWE creative" Unfortunately. WWE creative puts former world or WWE champs in IC title feuds, it's not creative that decides the IC title is beneath them. The IC title should be about elevating ascending stars. Not former world champs with nothing better to do.
|
|
mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
|
Post by mrjl on Nov 29, 2013 17:03:41 GMT -5
WWE creative puts former world or WWE champs in IC title feuds, it's not creative that decides the IC title is beneath them. The IC title should be about elevating ascending stars. Not former world champs with nothing better to do. the third IC champion was former WWWF champion Pedro Morales. He has two reins and still has the record for most days as champ
|
|
|
Post by Hit Girl on Nov 29, 2013 17:11:06 GMT -5
The IC title should be about elevating ascending stars. Not former world champs with nothing better to do. the third IC champion was former WWWF champion Pedro Morales. He has two reins and still has the record for most days as champ Those were the formative years of the title. The bulk of the title reigns have either been to reward the best-of-the-rest, or as a means of testing and elevating a future world champion, until around late 1998 when the hot-shotting began.
|
|
mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
|
Post by mrjl on Nov 29, 2013 17:12:29 GMT -5
the third IC champion was former WWWF champion Pedro Morales. He has two reins and still has the record for most days as champ Those were the formative years of the title. The bulk of the title reigns have either been to reward the best-of-the-rest, or as a means of testing and elevating a future world champion, until around late 1998 when the hot-shotting began. a former world champ with nothing else to do can easily be the best of the rest
|
|
|
Post by Hit Girl on Nov 29, 2013 17:26:24 GMT -5
Those were the formative years of the title. The bulk of the title reigns have either been to reward the best-of-the-rest, or as a means of testing and elevating a future world champion, until around late 1998 when the hot-shotting began. a former world champ with nothing else to do can easily be the best of the rest If it's part of a long term booking program to either re-establish him as a world title contender, or elevate another guy then yes. If it's done trivially, just to fill time, it's meaningless.
|
|
|
Post by "Trickster Dogg" James Jesse on Nov 29, 2013 19:00:18 GMT -5
Yes, they are called "WWE creative" Unfortunately. WWE creative puts former world or WWE champs in IC title feuds, it's not creative that decides the IC title is beneath them. So... you're saying it's the fans who decide that the IC title is beneath former world champions because they don't treat these kinds of champions appropriately? Or are you saying that it's the former champions who decide because they'd rather be a champion than not? Or the titles who decide because they have to be carried around by wrestlers? And not the creative team who decides? I mean, I don't mind former world champions holding the IC or US title, because it can help lend credibility to the title if it's been hotshotted too much. It can also serve as to ground talent in a holding pattern booking-wise, especially if they're older talent. But yeah, I agree with the idea that the IC title should signal to fans that someone is moving up the card, not that they're being demoted.
|
|
mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
|
Post by mrjl on Nov 29, 2013 19:10:21 GMT -5
WWE creative puts former world or WWE champs in IC title feuds, it's not creative that decides the IC title is beneath them. So... you're saying it's the fans who decide that the IC title is beneath former world champions because they don't treat these kinds of champions appropriately? Or are you saying that it's the former champions who decide because they'd rather be a champion than not? Or the titles who decide because they have to be carried around by wrestlers? And not the creative team who decides? I mean, I don't mind former world champions holding the IC or US title, because it can help lend credibility to the title if it's been hotshotted too much. It can also serve as to ground talent in a holding pattern booking-wise, especially if they're older talent. But yeah, I agree with the idea that the IC title should signal to fans that someone is moving up the card, not that they're being demoted. I see numerous fans make comments about secondary titles being beneath certain former champs
|
|
|
Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Nov 29, 2013 19:19:17 GMT -5
So someone like Miz, Dolph, Sheamus, Swagger or Del Rio, guys who became world champions but ultimately proved unfit to be permanent main eventers should just be stuck in limbo forever and never win titles again?
|
|